I found a site that makes me ill

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H.p> Exactly but the religion isnt about Jesus its about God. Jesus was Gods son, God created earth and stuff Jesus came down did some cool stuff spread word about GOD not himself then got killed put simply.Jesus was just another prophet? You sound like a Moslem, not a Christian.And Joseph Smith founded the cult, any way you slice it.gk> If your going to defend it you need to do all the reearch and question the inconsistancys you find on your own.If you're not a fundamentalist, you can just deflect the inconsistencies.

I am, just didnt appreciate stevea taking the piss so i dropped down to a disrespective piss taking level. Obviously youre not being a cunt about it and I respect its your opinion and its interesting to know this stuff as I said in another post Im not stubbern and if you give me good reason to think I have been wrong all my life I will change my mind (after researching and such). Im pretty open minded to anything and like hearing other peoples opinions that arent the same as my own as I learn new shit.>we belive in a different jesus Differant jesus? Do you mean God? I dont know how what he meens by that. A differant god would make sense because he is portrayed to be differant than other religions portray him. EG god jesus and the holy spirt are one being who is like abig floaty cloud thing, I cant remember what religion believed that. But I think all religions have a differant view on God. So you will have to tell me what he was implying by saying differant jesus.>question the inconsistancys you find on your own.I do EVERY time, I cant have somthing in what I believe not making sense. There has to be some kind of logic in it. I have always found an answer so far for everything that didnt make sense.So yeah hit me with a few things that dont make sense to you and I will see if I can answer them because as I said. I'm always up for learning new stuff and if it doesnt all make sense I dont want to be doing it.

Jesus was just another prophet? You sound like a Moslem, not a Christian.And Joseph Smith founded the cult, any way you slice it.Yes Jesus was and so was Joseph Smith. Obviously Jesus Was a bit more than a prophet since he was Gods son and all.If you read how it started he dug up the scriptures that were ingraved in gold and translated them, he merely translated the book rather than wrote it. So he may have got the whole ball roling again so to speak after the mormon religion ceased to be a coupple hundred years back, but in the beliefs he didnt exactly create it all even if in your opinion he did and made it all up.

My mother loves getting LDS or Jahovas witness to her house, she bakes them brownies and invites them in for like 2 hrs Eventually they stopped going to my parents house, Its funny

what? what? what? Seems there's more than just one Jesus because the ones you guys are describing are... nothing I've never heard of.

There's only one Jesus hes the one who got nailed up to the cross . Unless he had a twin.

An evil twin who likes to confuse people and make them fight over nothing lol.

Unless, of course, He was merely a mythological figure who never actually existed. It would have helped if He'd written down some of his thoughts...assuming He actually existed.

I think the elephant stuff refers to wollymamoths not elephants which were up in North America, dunno when they died out though. Just send me the passage name and stuff if you like and il look it up.

It would have helped if He'd written down some of his thoughts...assuming He actually existed. It's always been a rumor that there were the writings of Jesus and the catholic church refuses to publish them because it goes against what they have been teaching for soo many years.

OK, heres some shit I dug up including references for all of it, still havent found the elephants stuff, but here is a bunch more stuff.Ready for a long one??If you dont care about the whole mormon debate I suggest you skip this post.
as to Mormonism being a cult.....
Characteristics of a Cult (Tim Miller)
"The group focuses on a living leader to whom its members appear to be extraordinarily committed."
"The group focuses heavily on recruiting new members."
"The group focuses heavily on making money"
"Members who question, doubt, or dissent with the group's beliefs are discouraged or punished."
"The group uses techniques that numb the mind to suppress doubts about the group and its leaders. These include long work routines, denunciation sessions, meditating, chanting, or speaking in tongues."
"The group's leaders tell members how they should act, think, and feel. For example, members must get their love life and jobs okayed. Leaders may tell them what kind of clothes to wear, where to live, how to raise their children, etc."
"The group sees itself as especially and uniquely blessed; for example, the leader is believed to be a Messiah or avatar, or the leader and the group have special orders to save the world."
"The group has an us-versus-them outlook, which puts it in conflict with mainstream culture."
"The group's leaders are accountable only to themselves and are not guided by or disciplined by any higher authorities as are, for example, military officers, and the ministers, priests, and rabbis of mainstream religions. The group believes its goals justify methods that members would have considered unethical before joining, such as raising money for fake charities."
"The leaders manipulate the members into feeling guilty in order to maintain control."
"Because members become subservient to the group, they cut ties to friends, families and the personal goals and activities they had before joining."
"The group expects its members to devote inordinate amounts of time to it."
"The group encourages or requires its members to live or socialize only with each other."

Here we go with differences between the bible and the Book of Mormon.......
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
1. The universe is governed by a head god and his council. "The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world...In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it" (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, PP. 348-49).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
1. If there is somebody else up there managing things, the all-knowing God who created all things in the heavens doesn't know about it. Isaiah 42:5 defines Him as "God the lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein." In Isaiah 45:12 that same God says, "I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
2. God has goddess wives. "This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in all plainness by the First Presidency of the Church" (Bruce R. McConkie, Apostle, Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
2. There is absolutely no mention of any wives of God. There will be no marrying in heaven (see Matthew 22:29, 30).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
3. God is limited by a physical body. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (D&C, 130:22). "If God possesses a form, that form is of necessity of definite proportions, and therefore of limited extension and space. It is impossible for Him to occupy at one time more than one space of such limits" (James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, p.43).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
3. The one true God is infinite. Any other "god" is a false god (see 2 Chronicles 6:18; Psalm 139:4-8; Jeremiah 23:24).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
4. There are many gods: "In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it...In all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods" (Joseph Smith, Founder and First Prophet, History of the Church, vol. 6,pp.308,474).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
4. There was, is, and always will be only one God (see Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6-8; 45:5,6,18-22; Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:39; James 2:19).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
5. Jesus and Satan are brothers. "The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God--Lucifer. This spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind" (Milton R. Hunter, First Council of Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
5. The real Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. He is God's son (John 1:1-14). Satan was a created angel--not a son of God (Isaiah 14:12). Jesus created all things, and in Him the fullness of God dwells! (see Colosians 1:15-20; Philippians 2:5-11; Hebrews 1:1-13).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
6. Mary was not a virgin. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers...Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; He was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father" (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.547,742).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
6. Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost. Mary was indeed a virgin (see Matthew 1:19-23; Luke 1:35).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
7. Jesus was married. "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed" (Orson Hyde, Apostle, Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
7. Jesus and His disciples were guests a Cana (John 2:2). Read John 2:1-12. This Mormon doctrine is generally not taught openly today. Marriage in a Mormon temple (called celestial marriage) is mandatory to progress to becoming a god in Mormonism. To fit the theology of Mormonism, the Mormon "Jesus" has to be married--or He would only be a ministering servant to those in Mormonism's heaven who have "celestial marriage."
"ATTAINING "GODHOOD"
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
8. "God himself was one as we are now, and is an exalted man...I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form...like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man...he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 305).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
8. God was never a man. He created man! God has been God from all eternity to all eternity (see Psalm 41:13; 90:2; 102:25-27; Romans 1:22,23).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
9. Man may become god. "Here then is eternal life...to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you...To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of God" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 306).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
9. The great lie of Satan from the beginning was that man may become a god (see Genesis 3:1-5; Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:1-10).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
10. Total perfection is demanded. "We also have to forsake the sin and never repeat it, not even in our minds...In order to remain forgiven, we must never commit the sin again" (Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families, pp. 35-36).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
10. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God: (Romans 3:23); "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12); and Galatians 2:21: "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
11. The black race is a cursed people. "Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness, he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was placed upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel" (Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 102). (Although it became expedient for the Mormon church to open the Priesthood to blacks in 1978, the alleged revelation did not change Mormon doctrine regarding the penalty of being black. This revelation also directly contradicted established Mormon doctrine.)
THE BIBLE TEACHES
11. The color of a person's skin has no merit with God: "For there is no respect of persons with God" (Romans 2:11); and "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but to have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, father" (Romans 8:15). That includes all of us here on earth--black, white, red, or yellow, king or slave. All of us are made in God's image.
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
12. The Bible is incomplete and has serious errors. "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors--many plain and precious things were deleted, in consequence of which error and falsehood poured into the various churches. One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings now extant among men" (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 82, 83).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
12. The Bible is God's Word; and the word of God will stand forever (see Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:25).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
13. Except for the LDS Church, all churches are false. "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; and those professors were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:19).
"This Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth: (D&C, 1:30). "There is no salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
13. The church is the spiritual body of Christian believers with Jesus at its head. That is the true church--not any specific organization (see Ephesians 1:22,23; 2:11-16; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 12:12; Matthew 16:18).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
14. Joseph Smith was a holy prophet. "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-09).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
14. No prophet of God ever made a statement like Joseph Smith's. King Nebuchadnezzar had similar pride to Joseph Smith's. He was driven out by God to live with the animals (see Daniel 4:28-33).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
15. Prophets are above Scripture. "The living Prophet is more vital to us than the Standard Works (Bible, BofM, etc.). The living Prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet (David, Moses, Isaiah, etc.). Those who would remove prophets from politics would take God out of government" (LDS prophet, President Ezra Taft Benson, address at Brigham Young University, Feb. 26, 1980).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
15. In these last days God speaks through His Son (Hebrews 1:1,2). The authority claimed by the Mormon Church is through an "Aaronic Priesthood," which cannot be valid since Jesus abolished it when He took its place (Hebrews 7:11-19; 8:6-13), and a "Melchizedek Priesthood," which never existed as any operative "priesthood." Jesus is our only High Priest in the likeness of Melchizedek--he alone holds this priesthood permanently (see Hebrews 7:15-28; 9:11-15).
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
16. Mormons are also saviors. "We are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God; that we are the people God has chosen by whom to establish his kingdom and introduce correct principles into the world; and that we are in fact the saviours of the world..." (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 163).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
16. Over 500 verses deal with death, and over 300 deal with salvation. Not one verse even hints that we can be saviors of the dead. The Bible tells us in Hebrews 9:27, "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." Note that this isn't the Mormon concept, which states: "After this comes missionary lessons, a proxy baptism, and a series of Mormon ordinances that will allow you to become gods..."
THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES
17. Joseph Smith will be our final judge. "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).
THE BIBLE TEACHES
17. Jesus said we would be judged by His word and made no mention of Joseph Smith. John 12:48 says, "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." Paul referred to Christ as our judge--not Joseph. Second Timothy 4:1 states, "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom."
While we are speaking of the bible and book of mormon,Mormons often claim that the Bible is incorrect or has been translated incorrectly. Because of this, Joseph Smith translated the Bible himself in what is known as the Inspired Version of the Bible, also known as The Joseph Smith Translation. The LDS today use the King James version of the Bible.If the KJV is so wrong and their prophet created a correct version, why don't they use it? They use his precious Book of Mormon. If Joseph Smith translated the Bible and fixed all of its errors, why do they still claim that the Bible is so erroneous and unreliable? JS fixed it, the JS version should be perfect now. Why don't they use it more?
As to the mormon heaven,in Mormonism, there are three levels of heaven - clestial, terrestrial, and telestial. Within the top level (celestial kingdom) there are 3 levels, and a person can only reach godhood by making it o the very top level within the celesital kingdom, also called the "Church of the Firstborn." At this point, the person is given a planet to populate through what is known as "eternal increase." This is the ability to procreate throughout eternity.That's right - the wife would be eternally pregnant trying to populate their new planet.
One of the most celebrated aspects of Mormonsim is the teaching that "Families are Forever," and the promise is made to all Mormons who live up to the conditions of the church. This is where the questions arise. Unless an entire family - not just immediate family (grandparents, great grandparents, in-laws, their parents, etc...) - makes it to the same level of heaven, how are they all to be together? President Spencer W. Kimball teaches that "there is no progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom... he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory!"
How can an entire family be together if everyone ends up in a different level when it's impossible to change levels?
There is way way too many inconsitancies in the Mormon church. Keep in mind Im an atheist, but christians hold the bible to be the only true bok of god so Iv used it here for the comparision to BOM. These are only some of them but this post was getting way to damned long instead of just long.So this is all thats going toget put into it, and these are the ones that were the easiest for me to get sources on so that I could back up my opinion.

OK hadta do some digging to find it in that damn book but I finally found it:The Book of Mormon makes clear that both Jaredites and Nephites who lived in ancient times on this continent had domestic animals of various kinds. The earlier people, the Jaredites (c. 2000-300 B.C.), are reported to have hadall manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep, and of swine, and of goats, and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for the food of man. And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cumoms. (Ether 9:18-19)The Nephites (c. 600 B.C. - 400 A.D.) on the other hand tell usthat there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. (1 Nephi 18: 25; cf. Enos 21; Alma 5:59) Now you can researc if ya like when th mammoths died out and where they were found and try to justify your reference that the elephant was actually them. Keep in mind that JS said this was what the seer stone from god that translated the golden plates for him told him it was that it floated clearly before his eyes inside the hat.

In reply to:

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It's always been a rumor that there were the writings of Jesus and the catholic church refuses to publish them because it goes against what they have been teaching for soo many years.

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There are always conspiracy theories. I don't think there's even any evidence that Jesus was literate.

some place here HP taked aout the different jesus....."It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." LDS Quorum of the Seventy member Bernard P. Brockbank, The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7There are three major differences between the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Mormon church. Here's what Mormon's believe:1. Instead of the eternal Jesus co-equal with the Father, the Mormon Jesus was once a man who achieved godhood by his own virtuousness during a preincarnate existence. His spirit was then impregnated into the virgin Mary by the "Eternal Father" who came from the planet Kolob for the physical union with her.2. Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers who competed for the opportunity to become the savior of planet earth. Jesus' plan won approval and Lucifer rebelled and became the tempter and deceiver of planet Earth.3. Mormonism teaches that Jesus is only one of many saviors who are each responsible for the salvation of the population of other planets like Earth. Mormon men are working with the promise that they, too, will eventually become gods and be given a planet of their own to populate. This will be accomplished by their intercourse with many wives who will bear millions of spirit children to inhabit the bodies of the people on their planet.The Jesus of the Bible taught that salvation is a free gift anyone can receive by accepting Him as your personal Savior, not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 4:6 & 11:6; Philippians 3:9). The LDS Jesus taught that your level of exaltation was based on faith plus works determined by men. Thus, the Jesus of the Bible and the LDS Jesus can't be the same Jesus, as they taught mutually exclusive doctrine.

In reply to:[Jesus'] spirit was then impregnated into the virgin Mary by the "Eternal Father" who came from the planet Kolob for the physical union with her.The planet Kolob. Interesting. Apparently it revolves near the planets Oliblish and Enish-go-on-dosh. So that explains the Osmond Brothers' unique sound.--------------------------------------Open minded department...from today's NYT:In reply to: In a pair of decisions that bolstered conservatives, the highest court of the United Methodist Church defrocked an openly lesbian minister yesterday and reinstated a pastor who had been suspended for refusing to allow a gay man to become a member of his congregation.The nine-member court, the Judicial Council, also ruled in two other cases that church law superseded local resolutions that were more inclusive toward gay men and lesbians.. . .

Why does everything that has to do with religion have to be so damn long. I dont feel like reading grvtykllr's post cause its huuuuuuuuuge! Maybe, if they made things smaller in religion i might actually read something

Summary: Mormonism contradicts traditional Christianity in a lot of fundamental ways.

Thank you

"The group focuses on a living leader to whom its members appear to be extraordinarily committed." Yeah, but the religion is about god not the current leader.>"The group focuses heavily on recruiting new members." True, but its supposed to be spreading the work of God and such but I agree sometimes they go a bit too far in "spreading the word">"The group focuses heavily on making money" If you dont want to pay money you dont have to. I have never payed and no one has ever said I am a bad person for it or anything or ever said anything about it to me even. Personal choice really.>"Members who question, doubt, or dissent with the group's beliefs are discouraged or punished." Questioning is not discouraged and I have never been "punished" for drinking smoking or anything else contradicting my religions beliefs.>"The group uses techniques that numb the mind to suppress doubts about the group and its leaders. These include long work routines, denunciation sessions, meditating, chanting, or speaking in tongues." Im too drunk to think about that one. Basicalythat putting praying and stuff into a more cult like sounding way.>"The group's leaders tell members how they should act, think, and feel. For example, members must get their love life and jobs okayed. Leaders may tell them what kind of clothes to wear, where to live, how to raise their children, etc." I dress like a punk and no religious person has ever told me not to. We have never been told where to live either. the rase your children part is not to beat the crap out of them or be an abusive parent. Thats a fair enough rule to me.I cant be bothered to reply to the rest of the cult thing (booze and no slep makes me lazy) you get the idea. I will reply to the rest tomorrow if thats ok. I am quite drunk and tired at the moment and stuff goes in one ear out the other. (and i think the next part requires more thinking ha ha, so I will read it when I am less dumb(tomorrow))

I dunno if I would call it a conspiracy theory. Most people know that there was to be the book of Jesus which was about his teachings, but the book was never recovered. The bible is not really a complete book.