it's impossible right now but if people keep thinking like you do the world will never change into what it can.Sorry, my religious upbringing forces me to restrict my thinking to what's in The Book. If it's not there, it can't be done.> and as for the energy crisis thing nuclear energy is eviromental friendly if used correctly.Didn't I include nuclear energy in the list of possible alternative sources of energy? It has major downsides, though: there is still no good solution for the disposal of spent fuel; the spent fuel storage repositories at nuclear plants are tempting terrorist targets (they're not "hardened" the way containment buildings are); nuclear plants contain a lot of material that can be used to make dirty bombs; nuclear plants are very expensive to build, and aren't built without lots of government financial support; an accident at a nuclear power plant can have catastrophic consequences. These problems may be solvable, but not any time soon.> you need to do some more research on thingsOh really? Then please educate me on energy production, and the development of new sources of energy.> why do you (if you're atheist) bring religion into everything you talk about? it does get kinda tiresomeYou live in the Netherlands? You live in a country filled with people who think as I do. I live in the U.S., a country filled with people who think as you do. They're in control of the federal government. Religion is invoked all over the place. It's involved in the laws that are passed, and how the environment is regulated. It's mentioned around here (on the message board) all the time. Someone suggested that a depressed person (who happens to be an atheist) needs to get to know God, or some such nonsense, to fix his problem. Someone else started a thread on how her father is disowning her because, when he asked, she told him that she's not sure about the God thing. Just before that, a guy with a mohawk brought up God and religion. If you're not religious, its like watching a virus spread. If you are religious, you tend not to notice it. Other than in the past couple of days, and from time to time, religion has not been mentioned in a high percentage of my posts.The Catholic church, of course, has poorly-informed opinions on the matter of world population, as they do on many secular issues. They were also wrong about Copernicus and Gallileo. Unfortunately, a good portion of their billion adherents listen to the Pope on such matters. That is not good.> i think you're looking for arguements about something or otherNo, I would never do that. You must have me confused with some other guy.Religious person: "God, God, God! And Jesus!" -- Right on, bro.Agnostic/Atheist: "God? Unknowable." "No God!" -- Intolerant! Closed-minded!Is that how it is?> i know the earth can't hold an infinate amount of people...but as of yet we haven't reached it.You, my friend, need to do more research. People are now starving to death in West Africa, while the West looks on and does little. Are you familiar with the situation in Malawi? The population of places like China are becoming more affluent, and will soon demand the enery-consuming goods that are common in other developed economies. It will happen soon.> for the oceans being polluted is because of carelessness of people nothing else.The issue is not just pollution; it's overfishing. There is not enough fish in the ocean to support the current human population. Fish stocks are being exhausted. Fish farming leads to a lot of environmental problems. Another problem is the adverse impact that increasing global temperatures will have on coral reefs, and thus on fish populations.Those problems may be solved someday, but in the meantime, the population is still growing rapidly. That means more stress on the environment, more starvation, and more suffering, in the near future.Do you want to be part of the solution? Then forget the religious nonsense. However much you pray, it's not going to bring us new energy sources. Study science. Become a scientist or engineer.
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Choosing the sex
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hey just because you believe in a religion doesn't mean god gives you all the answers, it means you need to research, and your comment before about readinga science book will tell you more about the universe then the bible.....well ya i know it would. the bible is a "history" book on the accounts of jesus christ. a science book(which i love) will tell you everything that mankind has done for research thus far. and for nuclear power i said "if" used correctly. and yes they are also working on other power sources like fusion. and hydrogen(netherlands is extremely heavy into those researches) nuclear power also does not produce a lot of waste maybe in every 25 years you get about a couple of ounces of uranium. which can be stored safely already. i also do consider myself to be a bit of a dreamer and think of what we'll have in the future....it's fun to do.for the fish population. who cares? i don't i personally hate sea food and i'm sure there are lots of other people out there who do too. there are other things to eat to stay alive, like soy beans they're made to create sinthetic foods(rich in nutrients mind you) and still taste pretty good.how does forgetting religion make me part of the solution....and as for the girl with her father dissowning her i'm sorry to hear that, i have a very similar father and he gets extremely angry with me ever time he asks me and i say i dunno.living in the netherlands is completely different then the states.....they hate the U.S.A. not just the gov. but it's people too. (they think we're arrogant and need to listen to smaller countries, which i think we do a pretty good job of.) i know how americans think i am an american i was born and raised there. and wouldn't have it any other way. i can also understand how you feel about things because at one point in time i have felt the way you feel......to be more accurate just about a year ago. oh and how were copernicus and galilaeo wrong? i'm not getting you on that. and i never said that people out side of a religion were wrong or bad people. as for the cathlic church i'm just glad i'm not part of that one.....their current pope is just a little bit crazy :s (power hungry) as far as i believe god has very little to do with the "mortal" life because he doesn't interfere with our learn process, he tells us (in my church) that the only thing you will keep after death IS your knowledge and understanding of how things work and are...and you will continue to learn and progess after death. so i agree people in general need to become more educated.Religious person: "God, God, God! And Jesus!" -- Right on, bro.Agnostic/Atheist: "God? Unknowable." "No God!" -- Intolerant! Closed-minded!Is that how it is? NO that's not what i'm trying to say or anything. like i said i will keep an open mind to what you're saying about religion and how it "ruins" society.
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for the fish population. who cares? i don't i personally hate sea food and i'm sure there are lots of other people out there who do too.You were better off saying nothing than saying something stupid like that. oh and how were copernicus and galilaeo wrong? i'm not getting you on thatThey weren't wrong... The church was.
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In reply to:
for the fish population. who cares? i don't i personally hate sea food and i'm sure there are lots of other people out there who do too. there are other things to eat to stay alive, like soy beans they're made to create sinthetic foods(rich in nutrients mind you) and still taste pretty good.
There's more to the issue than lack of fish as a human food supply. When the balance of one group is thrown off, it starts a chain reaction.
If you lessen one group of animal, the other creatures that feed on that certain animal will lessen in population as well. The chain continues.
The same goes for things like coral reefs. They are one of the most diverse systems on Earth. If the reefs start dying off, creatures that make their home in the reefs will die. Animals that feed on reef fish and invertebrates will start to die off. Other larger creatures that fed on those now dying creatures will die, and the cycle goes on and on.
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for the fish population. who cares? i don't i personally hate sea food and i'm sure there are lots of other people out there who do too.i'm sorry that's not how i meant for it to come out at all.
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I'm not sure what you meant then. You don't care if all the fish are decimated in the oceans? Just becasue you don't like fish doesn't mean that a large portion of the worlds population doesn't subsist on a diet of fish and sea products.
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no no you're taking me all wrong i like fish(i think most of them are fascinating and beautiful, i just do not like to eat them) i'm just trying to say there are other sources of food then fish....i'm sorry for not being able to completely make out what i wanna say here.
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And my point is that regardless if whether you like or dislike fish, you said you "didn't care about the fish population".
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ummm sea life kind of help the cycle of life as well.
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ok ok i'll retract my comment. does that help any?
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i'm just trying to say there are other sources of food then fishAll the coastal and island dwellers...let them eat cake. (That was a Marie Antoinette reference.) There are areas of population where it will not be practical to maintain a healthy diet without the addition of fish. As dobol'n'iy said, if the fish population gets decimated, there will be unpredictable and bad repercussions. For one thing, you can kiss most of the sea mammals goodbye. When an ecosystem gets thrown out of balance, the result is usually very bad for humans.> hey just because you believe in a religion doesn't mean god gives you all the answers, it means you need to research, and your comment before about readinga science book will tell you more about the universe then the bible.....well ya i know it would. the bible is a "history" book on the accounts of jesus christ.It's good that you put "history" in quotes, because it is not a history book. Given all the "revealed" knowledge it contains, it would have been nice if God had the foresight to have predicted the pickle we'd be in now, and offer some practical suggestions. At the end of it all, Pasteur and Jenner each saved more lives than the bible has.> a science book(which i love) will tell you everything that mankind has done for research thus far.I'm not sure about everything, but books and journal articles can tell you a lot. But new ideas don't just spring from the sides of trees. People then come up with new ideas, new ways of looking at things, and eventually those ideas are tested, and science progresses.> nuclear power also does not produce a lot of waste maybe in every 25 years you get about a couple of ounces of uranium.That is absolutely wrong. All of the uranium pellets in all of the fuel rods inside the reactor need to be cycled out. That stuff is highly radioactive, and stays that way for at least hundreds of years (probably a lot longer).> which can be stored safely already.Where, in your basement? In the U.S., it's mostly all sitting on-site at nuclear plants. That spent fuel is a tempting target for terrorist bombs, while we debate whether it should be loaded into trucks and shipped to Nevada, to be stored in porous rock formations.> i also do consider myself to be a bit of a dreamer and think of what we'll have in the future....it's fun to do.That is good. That's how new ideas evolve.> how does forgetting religion make me part of the solution....I don't know how much time you personally spend pondering religious ideas, but the time people spend counting the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin could put their time to better use. An extreme example of this are the Madrassas, or religious school, common in the Islamic world. People learn no useful skill, other than how to be an imam. A lot of intelligent people go to waste.> (they think we're arrogant and need to listen to smaller countries, which i think we do a pretty good job of.) i know how americans think i am an american i was born and raised there. and wouldn't have it any other way.Do you think Americans do a good job of listening, or a good job of being arrogant? Because America doesn't listen to large countries, much less small countries. Do you remember Rumsfeld saying that "You're either with us or against us"? In other words, if you don't agree with us, you are our enemy. Europe views America as a religion-obsessed, power-obsessed, death penalty-rendering, nation-invading bunch of yahoos with a retard for a president, who has surrounded himself with lunatics. I wonder why they'd think that.> oh and how were copernicus and galilaeo wrong?As has been said, Galileo was persecuted by the Catholic church. They had their own ideas about science. There's nothing more ridiculous than religion dabbling in science. So why are there endless battles in the U.S. about teaching the Christian Creation story in science classes? Religion needs to stay out of science. It has nothing constructive to offer in that area.> their current pope is just a little bit crazy :s (power hungry) as far as i believe god has very little to do with the "mortal" life because he doesn't interfere with our learn process, he tells us (in my church) that the only thing you will keep after death IS your knowledge and understanding of how things work and are...and you will continue to learn and progress after death. so i agree people in general need to become more educated.This pope is no more a politician than past popes.I'm not sure how you plan to learn and progress after death, with no brain.> religion and how it "ruins" societyo It's yet another way for people to group together and persecute people who are not in their group. (Catholics and Protestants; Moslems and Jews; Christians and Moslems; Christians and Jews; Hindus and Moslems; the Shi'ites and the Bahai; and on and on and on.)o There's nothing good about basing your life on irrational ideas.o It often crowds out useful knowledge.o It leads to pointless fractures withing families and communities. In some places, you can be put to death for saying that you're not sure whether God exists.o It sucks money out of communities that could be put to better use.o When it entangles itself with politics, bad things happen. Study European history, and you'll see why most Europeans regard religion as a load of political nonsense. The Church became completely corrupted.o Since religion claims to have the answers to the big questions, it squashes intellectual though and inquiry into the nature of the universe. It provides you with made-up answers, so why bother thinking?
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In reply to: which can be stored safely already.Where, in your basement? In the U.S., it's mostly all sitting on-site at nuclear plants. That spent fuel is a tempting target for terrorist bombs, while we debate whether it should be loaded into trucks and shipped to Nevada, to be stored in porous rock formations. God damned right, I live in Tooele County Utah. about 30 miles from me the Goshute Indians are trying to store these rods on the reservation. The state fights them tooth and nail and passe a shit loa of laws so that while they cant stop them they did make it illegal to transport them on the roads that lead there effectivly stopping them from getting this project.I worked for another company here sotring radioactive waste for a long time. Its not 100% safe and its not easy, its also very exspensive to build a cell to contain the material. and evena couple of ounces of uranium 236, 238 are VERY HOTthats depleted uranium and its hotter then shit.while thre is a fence around the place and security guards there is not a great deal of security and anyone could easily drive a truck through the fence and get thier hands on the waste.the cells ar built up in layers and ther is waste readily availible if you wanted to take it to make a dirty bomb. Its not shit to be messed with. While I find it to be that the general public over reacts because they dont have any real education in it, it is not 100 % safe.If you think its safe and great then ask those that were close to cherynobal
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If you think its safe and great then ask those that were close to cherynobalOr Three Mile Island.A research breeder reactor once almost blew up in Detroit, but that's another story.It's possible that methods to make nuclear power completely safe will be developed someday, but we're not anywhere close to that yet. We will be seriously short of oil before that happens. We need to figure out other solutions to the energy problem as well.Iceland is very lucky to have so much geothermal power at their disposal.________________________________________________ Article from Popular Science on why hydrogen power is not a panacea.
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you know science intregues me a lot and i love learning everything i can about it but the way the universe was created was way beyond us. humans can only imagine as to how it came to be....that's why i find it interesting....and the church i go to supports everything that science has told us. i also never said that nuclear power was fool proof....like cherynobal, and three mile island, people can neglect things and it can become disasterous. but it's good we're starting to agree with our views don't you?and as you said about "let them eat cake" that's not what i was implying either.(i also knew who said it thank you:P)
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but the way the universe was created was way beyond us. humans can only imagine as to how it came to be....Not true. The Big Bang theory (everything is science is a theory, which is why science is not religion) says quite a bit about the origing of the universe. Among other good boods, I recommend Steven Weinberg's The First Three Minutes (it's a bit old, but it's a classic).As for what was before the start of the universe, that question may be unanswerable. Religion might have some nice stories about the subject, but that's all they are. Adding God to the mix accomplishes nothing. Having an intellingent being pulling the levers adds nothing useful to our knowledge of the nature of the universe. And who created God?> the church i go to supports everything that science has told us.What exactly does your church have to say about science? It would seem that science is to religion as fish is to bicycle.Are you planning to inhabit a planet and populate it by having sex for a million years, as the Mormon church suggests?
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Big Bang theory My church I went to believes in the Big Bang Theory. Yup, God said Bang and it happened. LoL>Religion might have some nice stories about the subject, but that's all they are. Adding God to the mix accomplishes nothing. Having an intellingent being pulling the levers adds nothing useful to our knowledge of the nature of the universe. And who created God?In your opinion this is true. But I know I have said this to you before that people who believe in religion should be allowed to believe their belief. As I have accepted you are athiest and would never try and change your mind, you should return the same respect to us. It doesn't effect you that we believe in god, does it?
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lol thanks ntro. and i've read that stuff about the big bang theory it's a good idea i support it and now i do not believe in populating an unpopulated planet:S just weird.
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In your opinion this is true.Given all the religions with all their conflicting creation stories, they each say their story is right and the others are wrong. How does that differ from what I'm saying? Well, for one thing, scientific observation trumps made-up stories.> God said Bang and it happened.You may have been joking, but a lot of people take that idea seriously. That means that there is no need to worry about what caused the Big Bang. God did it. End of story. Switch off brain.Your other issues were addressed in a parallel thread.
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I address back in the other thread
And no i'm not kidding about the Big Bang Theory. I remember my youth group all getting shirts that had "Big Bang Theory" on the front and on the back saying "God said bang, and it was sone". Well yes I suppose alittle joking was used in it.
>Given all the religions with all their conflicting creation stories, they each say their story is right and the others are wrong. How does that differ from what I'm saying? Well, for one thing, scientific observation trumps made-up stories.
I dunno maybe I had alittle more of a liberal church or something but we studied a lot of other religions and even parts of mythology. When it's all broken down there are a lot of simularities.
One of my bestfriends growing up father was from India. When he came over to this country, and married his wife (who was an American) he went to her church and said how similar aspects were to his religion. He studied them for years and said how he feels almost all religions are the same, it's just how it was presented to each culture that made the differences. He was a very smart man. He was a geneologist, Archaeologist and something else but cannot remember at this point. He even started the Geneology department at Thiel College.
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He studied them for years and said how he feels almost all religions are the same, it's just how it was presented to each culture that made the differences. He was a very smart man. He was a geneologist, Archaeologist and something else but cannot remember at this point. He even started the Geneology department at Thiel College.He was also an apologist. There are so many religions with so many stories that are not even close to one another, you'd have to have quite an imagination to think they're all pretty much the same.Keep in mind that many of your countrymen are fundamentalists, and would consider what the professor said to be blasphemy.Isn't Thiel an evengelical Lutheran college? (Have those guys reached some accomodation with the the Jews yet?)