CNN: Judge rules against 'intelligent design' in science classIt looks like the Dover Area School District's board was unmasked for what that truly are: people who are trying to introduce religious mythology into science classes. Thankfully they (7 of 8) were already kicked out by the voters. Every one of them. They've wasted a lot of money that would have been better spent on education than on fighting a court battle, trying to shove their religious views down the throats of biology students.
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Judge rules against "intelligent design"
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shakes head religious studies class and evolution in science i tell you!
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In reply to: They've wasted a lot of money that would have been better spent on education than on fighting a court battle, trying to shove their religious views down the throats of biology students. Man I wish I had more time on my hands.
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That stuff still amazes me. This shit just doean't happen here anymore.The only thing that I would critisize about our public system is that it doesn't include any religious education in the primary grade. I don't mean promoting theory as fact but from a n anthropological point of view. If the kids learn about other peoples' culture and religeon, they'd be more enlightened and accepting adults (except for the really dumb ones)
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Oh please...like we've not heard that line before.Why is it every time a Christian or group of Christians work toward what they want (which they have every right to do) they are accused of "trying to shove their agenda down everyone's throat"? Couldn't the same be said of liberals or atheists or Girl Scouts or farmers or anyone else who works toward an agenda. sexpot, you are wayyyy to smart to resort to tired mantras like that.
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thank youYou guys! Where are you?? You talk about these Christians always stuffing other people in the faces with their Christianity and yet I'm stuck in the midst of everything to the point where I'm bashed for carrying around a Bible. Let's switch. Come on. One day. Just one. Take it or leave it.
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I don't know about your town, but around here, non Christians are talked about in a negative way among Christians. I go to church (against my will) and whenever non-Christians are brought into the topics, everyone speaks about them as though we are unintelligent and horrible people. It's no wonder Christians are bashed by non-Christians. Whenever Christianity is brought into the government, it is a threat to us. It's like bringing us one step closer to the old times when people would have to go on trial for doing anything that would be considered going against God.
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When religion is brought into the biology class of a public school, religion is being shoved down people's throats. You ought to read the judge's opinion. He is a conservate Bush appointee, but he was easily able to see through the religious folks' smokescreen (and perjury).What do you tell parents who want their kids to get an actual, factual, education? Why can't religion be taught about in philosophy and religion classes, and taught in churches, homes, by religious groups, etc.? What on earth is religion doing in science classes?Apparently some religious people are so insecure in their beliefs that they have to make a big deal about their devotion, and they feel compelled to make the government an arm of their church. If you study history, you'll see that that is always a disaster for both.With all of their madrassas, Saudi Arabia is a primitive backwater, scientifically. If you're Saudi and you get very sick, you go to Europe or the U.S. for care. If you need an engineering project done, you get contractors from Europe, the U.S., or parts of Asia. The religious parts of the world combined probably publish far fewer titles in a year than Spain alone does, if you don't count religious works. There are religious elements that want the U.S. to be a Christian version of that.Christian nationalism is growing in the U.S. I'm afraid that if there's a big economic downturn here, things are going to get pretty weird. The demagogues in the news media (like Bill O'Reilly) offer a prelude, with their war on people who say "Happy Holidays".It's ironic that the U.S. and Iran now both have presidents who think they were chosen by God for the job. At least they were chosen by Someone; given the level of fraud in both countries' elections, it's questionable whether they were chosen by their citizens.
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I'm not going to get sucked into an argument here...but...
There are a lot of intelligent people out there, including scientists, including non-Christian scientists, who believe that intelligent design is good science at least as much as the theory of evolution is.
There is also enough reason to believe that evolution is as much a religion as any other religion and is motivated more by worldview and a priori assumptions than by science.
There...that's my hit and run post on this.
Carry on...
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There are a lot of intelligent people out there, including scientists, including non-Christian scientists, who believe that intelligent design is good science at least as much as the theory of evolution is.There is a very small number of scientists, not "a lot". Most of the rest of the people, who may quite intelligent, do not have a deep understanding of biology. The idea is not seriously accepted in the sceintific community. "Intelligent design" is not science at all!> There is also enough reason to believe that evolution is as much a religion as any other religion and is motivated more by worldview and a priori assumptions than by science.That is absolutely absurd. Darwin had no a priori ideas. He was an observant Christian. But he eventually realized that he couldn't just set aside what he saw with his own eyes.People who haven't studied evolutionary biology generally don't understand the huge body of evidence in support of evolution. The field has progressed quite a bit since the days of Darwin. The holes are, over time, being filled in. Just because every question about the evolution of life has not yet been answered does not mean that the idea is incorrect.Evolution is a theory in the sense that atoms and molecules are theoretical.The idea of "intelligent design" is not natural, and thus has nothing to do with science. Whether it's right or wrong, science has nothing to say about it. But the big problem is that "intelligent design" short circuits scientific inquiry. When you reach some point and then arbitrarily say, "Then a miracle happens", what more is there to say? Where do you go from there?"Intelligent design" is nothing more than "creation by God" (it's been called "Creationism Lite). There is really no evidence to support it. The idea the the flagella of bacteria (for example) is to complicated to have evolved is just stupidty promulgated by religious people. The wrong-headed ideas by the "intelligent design" folks have been demolished."Intelligent design" is squarely in opposition to science. It's nothing more than a dogmatic religious idea, and it has no place in a science classroom. Scientits who accept the idea are on the fringe, and are few in number, especially among specialists in evolutionary biology.Richard Dawkins is a scientist who has written well on the subject.
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Just for the record, Darwin was more then just a christian, he was intent and ready to enter training to become a priest.
Was it a priest? I know it wasnt a rabbi but I cant sya for certain right now if it was a priest or some other equivelant in some other religion. Anyways he was more then an average christian he intended to become aleader and devote himself to god. his observations changed his mind while he was on that ship. He saw too mcuh and made his own decisions and couldnt follow the whole god theory anymore.
Not to contradict ya Steve, just that saying he was a christian doesnt tell how strong his personal convictions were before he made those now famous observations.
There was a newsweek in November that I caught that had an article in it about his life and that trip that he wrote the book and his plans beore that trip. -
He had planned to become an Anglican minister.
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Two paragraphs from a 22 December New York Times article:
In reply to:
The judge found that intelligent design violated the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking supernatural causation and by making assertions that could not be tested or proved wrong. Moreover, intelligent design has not gained acceptance in the scientific community, has not been supported by peer-reviewed research, and has not generated a research and testing program of its own. The core argument for intelligent design - the supposedly irreducible complexity of key biological systems - has clear theological overtones. As long ago as the 13th century, St. Thomas Aquinas argued that because nature is complex, it must have a designer.
The religious thrust behind Dover's policy was unmistakable. The board members who pushed the policy through had repeatedly expressed religious reasons for opposing evolution, though they tried to dissemble during the trial. Judge Jones charged that the two ringleaders lied in depositions to hide the fact that they had raised money at a church to buy copies of an intelligent design textbook for the school library. He also found that board members were strikingly ignorant about intelligent design and that several individuals had lied time and again to hide their religious motivations for backing the concept. Their contention that they had a secular purpose - to improve science education and encourage critical thinking - was declared a sham.
If something is not testable, and cannot be testable, it is not in the domain of science. "Intelligent design" has absolutely nothing to do with science. It may be a fine religious belief, but it is not science.
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sigh why do people start such posts....STEVE!!!
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Community Forum. Important current event.Questions: Why are Americans such ignoramuses with regard to science education and scientific knowledge? What part does religion (and superstious beliefs) play in dumbing down the population? How does religion wrap its tentacles around government?All salient questions.
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to which I'm sure you alone have the correct answers.
:smirk:
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I wish I had the answers, at least for education. Why do you think that America (one of the most wealthy (per capita) nations) has school students who test worse than those just about any other industrialized nation, in science and math? Why are universities / businesses having to instruct so many of new students / employees in rudementary math and writing? Why are fewer and fewer Americans interested in studying science and engineering? It's really getting hard to find people who are qualified for technology jobs in the U.S.
Someone should look into it. Having a fundamentalist president who bans federal government support of any kind of serious stem cell research, and who choses people who are politicizing the scientific agenda (at least, a bunch of Nobel laureates think so), is not helping. We're falling behind in basic science. Deeper religious devotion is not going to fix that.
