Sorry to bring it up but...

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On Judgement day? What do you mean by that.. have you read the bible? Do you know what the bible says?

The reason we were born.. was to procreate.. it was never adam and adam.. or eve and eve.. it was ADAM and EVE.. you wouldnt have been here if it was any other way.

Matt 19:4-5

In the beginning the Creator made them male and female. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh
Romans 1:22-32:

22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator---who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Jude 5-7

5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home---these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

I see. So your bigotry is bible-inspired. Too bad you have no real understanding of what you cut and pasted. I suppose also that all the scientific stuff I pointed to and quoted means nothing right off the bat, because it contradicts your wrong-headed interpretation of the bible. Tell me the truth--did you copy those passages from a Christian anti-gay Web site? And are you saying that you didn't understand any of the articles I cited?

Take a look at this: What Does Scripture Really Say About Homosexuality?. I would wager that the person who wrote that article has a deeper understanding of the scriptures than you do.

The bible also has a lot to say about sodomy (men and women can commit sodomy) and premarital sex. At best, you are in the same damned boat as the homosexuals. If the Old Testament God read your blog, what would he think. Wasn't the penalty stoning to death for doing the kind of things you do?

Didn't some important Figure say something to the effect of, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? (Florence King said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged judgmental".) How about "Do to others as you would have them do to you."?

Matthew pretty much summed it up in 7:15:

In reply to:

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Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye.

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James 1:19-20:

In reply to:

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You must understand this, my beloved: let everyone be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger; for your anger does not produce God's righteousness.

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She's no more of a bigot than you are Steve. She just believes somethng you don't. Can't you leave it at that.And I won't even begin to go into how flawed that article of yours is. Why do you question the credibility of everything anyone else posts but then post something like that? Why do you think it is any more acceptable that what she is saying?Disagreement does not equal hate or intolerance.

Dammit, why don't you get it? Are you just trying to provoke me? Saying "that's all a bunch of crap" is just a bunch of crap. If you have specific issues with the content of the articles, then state them. I'm you your knowledge of evolutionary genetics will cast much needed light on the discussion.The idea is that I don't really care whether the bible inspires intolerance or not. If it is truly intolerant, then it's a useless pile of nonsense. But at least understand what it is that you think you believe. At least don't be a hypocrite. On the other hand, based on this thread and the "intelligent creation" thread, you haven't demonstrated that have the faintest understanding of the science, or science itself. So why do you even post to a thread that contains a scientific discussion?I don't see the point of your post. It added nothing to the argument either way. If you have nothing useful or constructive to add, then move on to another thread.

Quit letting the Internet form your opinions for and back up your facts with something that you said not something that you googled and posted.

You do understand.. half the shit on the internet is BULLSHIT?

Steve.
Simmer down.
Life's too damn short, Buddy.

I wuv yous and have tolerance puuppy faceNo really I understand how you feel because I've seen many homosexuals get looked down upon by others. And I've actually had people in my church argue with me and accuse me just because I see no problem with it. Church people! They're like the biggest devils. It's amazing. Some though... not all. But just because someone doesn't agree with you on something doesn't mean they have to get all hostile you know.

> You do understand.. half the shit on the internet is BULLSHIT?

You do understand, just because something appears on the Internet doesn't automatically make it bullshit. I wasn't quoting bloggers. I assume you can read at an adult level. Did you look at the articles? Did you look at their authors and sources? Are you afraid to look at anything that might challenge your beliefs?

You have your interpretation of the bible, and that's that. Nothing will move you. I could send you a stack of medical and research journals ten feet high, and you'd still think it was all bullshit.

Frankly, to me it doesn't matter whether people are born gay or chose to be gay, any more than I car what kind of car they drive or what brand of suits they buy, or what they decide to study in college. I don't look at a person and speculate on what he or she does in the bedroom. I really don't care. I'm sure there are a lot of hetero- and homosexuals who do things in private that I would find distasteful. Who cares? It's like worrying about how someone wipes their ass. It just doesn't matter.

If you want to dislike homosexuals or what they do, or not dislike homosexuals but still dislike what they do, or whatever you decide, it's not that important. It's not rational, but it's not important. What really matters is how you treat people, and I just hope you don't treat people unfairly because of your ideas of sexual orientation. As I said, gay marriage has been legal for a few years in Massachusetts, and so far God hasn't destroyed the state.

But even if you base everything you believe on your interpretation of the bible, why do you pick and choose the things that you like, and disregard the rest?

GODZILLA> Quit letting the Internet form your opinions for and back up your facts with something that you said not something that you googled and posted.

What on earth are you talking about? I'm not doing research in human behavior, and I don't have a laboratory or an fMRI machine. You have to understand that what's on the Internet doesn't spontaneously pop up by magic. Almost all scientific and medical journal articles are posted to the Internet now. This is more a scientific discussion than a philosophical one, so one needs to cite research and evidence. That's how science works. Our personal opinions might be entertaining, but they aren't worth very much.

OK PEOPLE! I think you have had enough arguing and bickering now!!?!?!Everyone has got a different opinion on this, and in the end does it REALLY make that much difference what one person thinks? Especially over the internet. They are not making any impact on your own life when you turn off the little power switch..Ok... maybe pink could have phrased her arguements better in the first thread because they did come across as a little harsh, but everyone jumped on her and in turn have started a huggge pointless thread...! It's obvious that noone is going to agree on this, so why keep up the effort? Why keep wasting time on arguing?? Sure, you've annoyed eachother and now you are clear of eachothers opinions on this particular subject., and I think that everyone has put up a valid arguement.... but you really should just leave it now. It is not going anywhere, and you are just going to be traipsing over old ground agaaain and agaaaaain and agggaaaaaaain!!!!Come on, show some maturity and just please agree to disagree! big eyes... please???

Come on, show some maturity on this board?? surely not! seriously guys, youll just get yourself wound up and do you really think you can sway peoples beliefs on this issue? i think not. i dont see the gay guys in here suddenly saying 'my god. all this time it was in my head! im not gay! joy to the world!!!'. its not going to happen. nor is anyone going to change peoples religious beliefs. people who are gay are gay. no amount of arguing is going to change that and no amount of bickering is likely to change where people think homosexuality stemmed from and whether it is right or wrong. people have different opinions and thats great but can we be a little more polite about it? just accept peoples opinions are different to yours. shouting at them wont help. let me reitterate: SHOUTING AT PEOPLE WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR VIEWS. just calm yourselves, ok hunnies? i think its gone on long enoughtake care

You never miss an opportunity to pile on. Thank you, may I have another? Are you going to set an example for us? No more war threads in the Community Forum?

Welcome back to the thread.You're a journalist-in-the-making. You must research your articles. Even if you wrote an editorial, I'm sure you'd do research to support you position, and check your facts.What do you say about the idea of research? If someone said "black people are stupid" (I'm not making this up. I heard it last night, from a black man.), would you tell him to just shut up, would you ask him to explain why he thinks that...what would you do? What if he found this place and posted that sentiment. What would you say?There are many people with bigoted ideas, of all colors, religions, and classes. A lot of them vote. What do you make of the results of the various state referenda on gay rights in the 2004 election? Do you think there is any way to persuade people, one way or the other? If you look at polls and election results, you'll see that people's positions shift, as a group. How and why does that happen?There's no way anyone will persuade pinkranger4 to change her position. She is a lost cause. Perhaps seeds of doubt will take root, but it's doubtful. On the other hand, there are many people who think that homosexuality, and thus homosexuals, are gross. They may never have thought about why they think what they think. Maybe they need something to think about.

It seems like people are getting sick of your crap! Like 9000 of your 10000 posts are just slamming other peoples views.

Have you counted? Because it's not true. Did you read the post you replied to? It wasn't a slime. Now, have you anything constructive to say, or are you just going to start spewing obscenities?

steve, im seriously worried about you. your flaming lately has got out of control. im not sure whats happening behind the computer screen but something the past couple of months has changed about you and it does genuinely concern me. i saw the turning point a few months ago and pointed it out and told you that i was losing the respect i had for you but now i just dont know what to think. im pretty sure theres some underlying reason for this sudden burst of anger and i just hope you get it sorted out for your sake. i miss the old steve

maybe if he gets enough genuine concern from people here he might listen. i dont know. im just clutching at straws now to make him see sense

I'm not sure that you log in often enough to get a good sample, but I don't believe much of anything has changed. Things come and go, in bursts, or otherwise.Right now there are at least three different threads attacking classes of people, whether they're gay, young, or whatever. The people who made those posts are common bigots. There are lots of people reading these posts with un- or partially-formed opinions on such issues as whether homos should get beaten up. It periodically happens in my neighborhood.A few months ago, someone drove by while I was walking on the sidewalk started yelling me and harassing me about being gay. I'm not even gay. But that's the kind of crap (and much worse) that a lot of gay people have to live with all the time. It is a serious issue, at least in the U.S.People, by and large, have a great deal of difficulty empathizing with other people, and what they have to go through every day. When Roc says what it's like, he's not making things up. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's not easy to fit in if you're different.If you saw me on the street, you'd never notice me. I just blend in. I'm quite average in most ways. But I've made a concerted effort to try to understand what it's like to walk in other people's shoes.So, after all that, did anything I say in my last non-GODZILLA post make any sense, or are you just in the mode of "he's flipped out and is just posting loony stuff that I shall complain about", or did it make any sense to you? It contained no attacks. (By the way, was that GODZILLA post appropriate? Were ata7's angry, hateful, obscenity-filled posts in a parallel thread appropriate?I'm not here to be loved. If I were, I would never say anything controversial; if you do some group of people will not like what you say. If you say a lot of controversial things (that don't all stem from a single ideology), then most people will eventually have a problem with you. I'm not trying to earn Brownie points. Whom you respect is your own decision.At the end of the day, if people didn't come to the threads and argue, the threads would die out. There aren't many cases of people arguing with themselves. Everyone thinks "I gotta have the last word", but then they also think, "If you have the last word, you're a jerk". Human nature is quite amusing.Let me repeat that thought: If people stopped posting, the thread would die. I assume that applies to everyone equally.___________________________________________________________________________________no1> I've tried to tell him this last weekYou just can't stop, can you? Is the game rattle the cage, get a reaction, then point and say, "See! Look at him!"? You didn't tell me anything; you posted an angry thread in the Community Forum about "the problem with Steve", and you just whipped up a lot of hostility. That was not really constructive. It was nothing more than another one of your "let's beat on Steve" threads. Apparently, constructive contribution here is not in your charter.You do understand that, as much as you want to be a moderator, you're not one (it's been a while, and it hasn't happened yet), and the moderators govern how the site is run, who gets warned, who gets banned, and so on. Apparently you're not interested in working within the system, or you are frustrated that you're not getting your way. I'm not sure why else you would start the type of thread you referred to.

wow, I don't get it.Even when I disagree with Stevie, I've never felt attacked nor have I seen anything resembling a blind attack towards otheres. Sure, I don't read every thread in every section. Far from it these days (as most of you know, I'm a little distracted).As a debater myself(accused of being a "reflex debater") I just don't understand all the hostillity "I beleive this...""I disagree because...""YOU'R AN ASSHOLE!" pathetic!

steve, im on here every day and ive seen enough to make some sort of judgement. and i appriciate youre not 'here to be loved' but you were and to some extent still are. we're just worried about how the love you give and recieve looks as though its not as strng as it was. thats all. and if youre really ok then good! long may your flaming reign continue! just dont get to the point of some of the nasty flamers here.