Conspiracy theory... what do you think?

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Done.

Spam.

Spam is where you post the same stupid thing all over the place. The latter part of this thread is the same stupid thing, over and over, in a single place, involving two stubborn people, one of whom still insists that canker sores are caused by the cold sore virus, no matter what evidence is presented, such as the following, from the end of an article on the Colgate Web site:

In reply to:

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"With all the antiviral medications, it is important to note that they are totally ineffective in treating aphthous ulcers, or canker sores, of the mouth," Dr. Greenberg stresses. "Canker sores are not viral infections. And antiviral medications should not be used to try to treat them."

Canker sores and cold sores are often confused, even by some health care practitioners. In addition to not being caused by a virus, canker soles are strictly intraoral (inside the mouth) and are not contagious. Cold sores, by comparison, are contagious, are caused by the herpes virus HSV-1 and usually appear on the lips not in the mouth.

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This is what we're dealing with. It's a pointless discussion vis-a-vis the other guy, but perhaps a tiny bit useful to someone else who might be inclined to confuse magical thinking with reason.

OMG!!!! You are seriously ill that you like arguing..

You know what I am not fueling your ego trips anymore. I refuse to post anymore on this topic.

You're simply...wow....

The issue is not liking to argue (although, once again, "Kettle / pot / black"). What I don't like is people posting incorrect information, and then not backing down no matter how much evidence they are presented that they are wrong; they'll respond with, "Well, that's my OPINION!". What word would you use to describe that? Would "fuzzy headed" (search the thread) apply?Ego doesn't have much to do with it. If I argued against someone that the Earth is not flat, ego wouldn't have much to do with that either. The canker sore thing is as objective as the idea of a spherical Earth. I'm baffled that you don't get that.> I refuse to post anymore on this topic.You've said this, what, half a dozen times or more? And I keep saying, "We'll see..."Let's see if you can contain yourself this time.

So I caught the UPS trying to do the llama in the back yard today...I feel cheated

The llama just got back from the chiropractor; I didn't think he'd be up for it. You'd think the UPS guy would be satisifed with the FedEx guy. I had three vists from them last week, but no special delivery.

Real story, my cousin went to Mexico to see a doctor who wasn't allowed to practice medical things in the US, after my cousin was diagnosed with HIV. I think he said it had lemon and garlic extract and a bunch of other things... and 12 years later nothing has happened... he has gone for check-ups... doctors think the HIV went dormant, me thinks it went away because there is actually a cure. But of course, we being americans, think our government is perfect, so we dont believe that nonsense.

I figured I would weigh in on this. The idea that university funding comes from drug companies is just wrong. Take my universty (Dalhousie): I search for research funding and found this:
http://researchservices.dal.ca/research_2759.html
which took me here
http://researchservices.dal.ca/files/research03-04-bysource.pdf
(funding for 03-04)

Now, the universty received 100 million dollars total from various sources. If you look down the list, you see, under busieness: 1.1 million (research grants), 2 million (research contracts) and 6.4 million (clinical trials)

Sum those and you get 9.5 million. That's just under 10% of the funding. That means the other 90% is coming from NOT BUSINESSES. For example, the governement gave a good 25 million, research foundations gave a good 30 million or so.

So don't go tell me universities get the majority of their funding from drug companies. If they wanted to make lots of money they would just try to stop research so they could sell ineffective medicine.

And by the way, I wouldn't consider Trudeau to be a trustworthy source. He's your general "They're just trying to suppress me!" person, when it's much more likely that he is suppressing THEM. (I've tried to google that bread story from a non-trudeau source, but I can't seem to find it, any help?)

As for your assertion that 'not all things can be proven factually' (paraphrasing): if you can't show that it works, you shouldn't be selling it as a remedy.

On the bread source I'll see if I can pull anything up on google but otherwise it's in the book I mentioned above. I was talking to my grandmother that lived in ohio basically all her life and she said she remembers something about that in the papers years back.Like I said after I get back from lunch I'll see if I can find anything for ya =D.

The idea that university funding comes from drug companies is just wrong.Yes. I pointed that out somewhere. Unfortunately in the U.S., government reasearch funding is a bit of a political football.A dirty little secret that drug companies don't want you to know is that the government funds universities to do research on certain drugs, including trials, and then drug companies scoop up the intellectual property, do something trivial with it, patent it, and profit enormously. Keep in mind that, in those cases, the research and development was done on our (tax) dime. That's one reason that the pharmaceutical industry spends twice as much on marketing as it does on research.On the other hand, there are a lot of reserchers who have a financial interest in the outcome of their research. That can make for bad science.

Hello,I just wanted to say a bit about Kevin Trudeau's book, "Natural Cures."DON'T BUY IT!That book doesn't list any products, or any remedies for any cures. All the book does is babble on like he does in his infommercial about how the FDA doesn't want you to know this, and that, because of drug companies... blah blah... blah.Anyhow, What the book DOES do is say that you have to go to his website to find the "natural cures." Now, you have spent $29.95 on his book, and go to a website which asks you to pay $9.95 a month to find the "Natural Cures."(I think it would be easier to find the Holy Grail than to find any cures in Kevin Trudeau's book)Kevin Trudeau doesn't want you to know this but...The FTC, not the FDA, DID ban him from selling "cures" on TV. The FTC caught him in a false advertisement scandal. They virtually banned him from the TV infommercial scene for a full year. The reason behind this ban was him trying to pass off common lawn&garden fertilizer as a cure. Coral Calcium, as it was marketed is actually nothing more than limestone, which contains calcium carbonate in an unpurified state. The same thing as Coral Calcium, is limestone pellets you can buy at Home Depot in an 80 lb. bag for about $3. furthermore, his claims about how the calcium affects the body were untrue, and outright lies, and even worse, he sighted medical studies and a german scientist's study on calcium's ability to cure cancer. The studies sighted were from the 1940's and were since disproven! Total joke... Kevin does the same thing that Dupree and Sheets do. They sell you common information but label it as "top secret." Ever see those auction listings they sell? Big bold print...2003 HONDA ACCORD FOR $500!! POLICE IMPOUND AUCTIONS! for listings call 1-800-blablablablaWhat you buy into is a page right out of the yellow pages. They simply compile the auctioneers listed in the yellow pages from every single state, with a random sampling of cities. Then they charge you $60 for this "listing" of phone numbers, and they charge you $9.95 a month to update you with all the new auctioneers that get listed in the yellow pages. hmm... rip-off? If its too good to be true, you better change the TV station. As far as Natural Cures goes, if you want the book, order it from Amazon, or go to CostCo and pick it up. It's only $16.00 at CostCo. Kevin wants $29.95 for it, and when you go to order it, apparently they try to upsell you into more expensive things, and then they bill your credit card $10 a month until you cancel your "subscription." Even better than CostCo, my local library has it, so I didn't pay a dime, and I get to go around and let everyone know that they should spend the $29.95 on a whole bunch of fresh vegtables and maybe a Richard Simmons excersize tape which will be more beneficial to your health and well-being than a traveling salesman's book about how the FDA destroyed a bunch of bread in Ohio.By the way, on the bread issue... you had it right. The guy was marketing the whole grain bread as a way to "decrease hunger" not decrease appetite. That was his sneaky way of getting people to buy a "No Hunger" drug. Sure if you eat a loaf of bread, you are not going to be hungry anymore. If you listen to Kevin Trudeau, you'll hear him say "hunger" as per the true story. The guy was a snake oil salesman who did just have normal bread, but was marketing it as more than bread. Rather than the FDA taking chances on killing a bunch of hungry people, they destroyed it. They would have had to go through all the trouble to anylize each loaf to make sure that he washed his hands after wiping his butt of a poop, prior to handling the loaves of bread. legally, the FDA cannot take a confiscated "drug" (hey the guy was calling it a no hunger "drug," his stupid fault) and dispense it to the public. That's why the story got so much media attention back then. It was obviously just bread, but because the rules say they can't dispense a confiscated drug, it had to be destroyed. You can't get mad at the government for doing it's job. Ever see a master illusionist? Ever see a "how'd they do it" show about the master illusion, and then feel let down that the illusion wasn't real? If you saw Kevin Trudeau's infommercial, consider my post to be the "how'd he do that" answer to his illusion.Something else to think about... There are no secrets anymore. There is the internet, and constant media personalities fighting to open the next "Al Capones Vault." If any natural cures really work, you'll find them in the New England Journal of Medicine, or you've probably already heard about them. (Ex. garlic, lycopene, omega-3) If you ever see anything on TV that says, "I have a secret, buy my book to find it out." do a search on the internet. Chances are someone else has bought the book, and then blabbed out the secret on the internet. That, or there isn't a secret, and you just saved money through someone else's stupidity. A smart man learns from his mistakes, a truely wise man, learns from the mistakes of others.Sorry, I just have a huge problem with these infommercial people. The only good things in life need just a 30 second time slot to win people's affection. If you need 30 minutes to sell me something, it's not worth having.

Hey there and welcome to the boards =-DActually I never went a ordered his book like I planned. I heard a few things you expressed before hand and decided to hold off.Though I do feel there are Natural Cures out there. Native Americans used herbs to cure many diseases; same with wild animals when they are sick know what plant or what not to cure their ailments.Recently I went to an Iridologist. I was diagnosed for IBS 4 years ago and no drug my doc put me on has helped. Anyway I went to the Iridologist and basically they look at the Iris of the eye. First thing he asked is was if I eat sugar in excess amounts, which is very true LoL. I love candy, tot he point I eat it a few times a day. Than he asked is I had intestinal problems, stomach pains and headaches.. Which I do suffer from. He gave me some natural herbs to help with my problems. He gave me Angelica Root, Blackberry Root and Slippery Elm. Now I am not saying this is going to cure me, but I'm at least going to give it a shot. I tried almost all drugs you can think of for IBS with no success.. So hell, why not try something natural now?? Anyways sorry went off on a babbling spree there. Basically though his book might be all a shame for money, I still believe there are natural cures out there.

You may be right, some of the time, but this is interesting: How ineffective treatments appear to work (Reasons why bogus treatments seem to get results.)

Well i read over those and I can see what they are saying. But that doesn't answer how people who have terminal cancer went to herbs and than went into remission. I find it funny still how people fight again natural remedies. Things that have been on the earth for millions of years. Ancient cultures used these remedies and rampent illiness wasn't all the present with those cultures. Instead people want to put their lives into other man made drugs instead of "mother nature". I am not saying man made drugs haven't done some amazing things... I just think there is good in nature rememdies as well.But hey that's me! =-D

In reply to:Well i read over those and I can see what they are saying. But that doesn't answer how people who have terminal cancer went to herbs and than went into remission.It does exactly that. Were you looking for an explanation on the molecular level?There are people who go into spontaneous remission, even when they're do nothing. Then mechanism of cancer is still not that well-understood, as bridge building is, and it's possible that some herbs might help some of the time. The problem is that the herb pushers are exploiting the lack of knowledge, and defining their stuff as a cure, and often profiting handsomely from it. Sick, desperate people are easy to exploit. Meanwhile, a lot of that herbal stuff is completely useless, and some of it is very harmful; sometimes an herb will react badly with another herb or drug. Another problem is that herbs are not classified as drugs, so no one is monitoring purity or active ingredient content.

What i find funny as soon as someone who had cancer goes into remission after taking a herb it's not the herb that did it it's "spontaneous remission". Let's make up new words and new medical terms just to keep people from finding natural routes.. seriously it's rediculous.As for the guy I went too.. he never claimed this will cure my issues, all he said was that it could help. And I'll try anything at this point. I have nothing negative to say about the herbs (other than it's in liquid form and the taste is kind of icky lol) and yet nothing overly positive (other than my spasm pains are decreasing which to me is a huge plus).. but than again I have only been taking them for 4 days.This guy also asks what drugs you are taking; man made or herbs. Than he finds that herbs to give you. He also tells you the dosage and the frequency to take it.I just think more studies need to be put into natural remedies.. but we all know that won't happen because you cannot patent something natural. =-X

What i find funny as soon as someone who had cancer goes into remission after taking a herb it's not the herb that did it it's "spontaneous remission". Let's make up new words and new medical terms just to keep people from finding natural routes.. seriously it's rediculous.What I find funny is that people take some substance and go into remission, and it's always, "That stuff cured me! There's absolutely no doubt about it!" Yet, often, when the substance is studied scientifically, it turns out to have no effect. In other words, when you see two things happening at the same time, you tend to automatically set up a cause-and-effect relationship in our minds.This is not to say that there's no way that no herbs are efficacious against any disease. I'm arguing against credulously believing disease-curing claims. The problem is that sick, desperate people are easily victimized. It's beyond unethical. It's odious.> As for the guy I went too..I'm not discussing your personal case.> I just think more studies need to be put into natural remedies.. but we all know that won't happen because you cannot patent something natural. =-XI'm pretty sure we've covered this ground before, but the federal government now has a program to support the research of non-tradition remedies by universities and medical centers. Private foundations are also involved. Not all research is paid for by drug companies. In fact, I'm pretty sure that only a relatively small part is.Once again, a big problem with herbal remedies is that it's hard to know if you're getting an uncontaminated preparation; some remedies have potential side effects that users are often not aware of; they can interact badly with other herbal substances and "regular" drugs; since no independent agency regulates or assays the herbal substances, you never really know how much active ingredient you're getting.We're not talking about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin here. Some herbal remedies can and have caused people big health problems, including death.

Well you and I just will not see eye to eye on this topic so it's pointless to continue the back and forth debate.I think we both have too strong of an opinion on this hehe =-D

> Well you and I just will not see eye to eye on this topic so it's pointless to continue the back and forth debate.

Dammit, if you'd go beyond "my feelings" and post something factual, these discussions might not be so ridiculous.

> I think we both have too strong of an opinion

You make it sound like a scientist debating a creationist. Not all opinions are equal.