12 steppers

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anyone go to 12 step meetings eg. N.A. A.A. C.A. etc.? its online so you wont brake your anonimity.

Aren't there similar groups that are less religious?

not that i know of.

AA really strikes me as a religious cult. It appears to transfer depence on a substance to dependence on a group.From what I've read, they refuse to release data on the outcomes of their participants. As far as the data can be put together, and based on what their own spokesman has said, at the end of some period (2 years?), AA doesn't appear to be effective (compared to not being in any program). That doesn't mean that it's not effective for some people, but on the average, it appears not to be effective.The problem with AA is that people take it's effectiveness on faith. Given the time, effort, and expense that people put into it, it needs further scrutiny.There are secular organizations: Rational Recovery, Smart Recovery, and LifeRing.

Drug problems were not as common back when AA first started as compared to modern day times, they are now much more easily obtained. NA was created years after AA started, which is also the reason AA is generally older people and NA younger people. Iv gone to both...a lot...i was in rehab. Even though they include "God" in their prayers and routines, they are refering to the "higher power," which is considered a spirit/aura/motivational feeling for non-religious people. So if you have a problem with the usage of "God" subsitute it for "high power."

I also wanted to add this: Addiction in recovery is defines as a disease. An incurable disease. Its like a monster inside of you....you can go clean and put the monster to sleep....however if you pick up you will awaken the monster...and it will be bigger. AA/NA meetings are highly successful....if you follow it intensely, read the big book, and attend multiple meetings a week, you will succeed. I know hundreds, yes hundreds of successful people that have been clean 10+ years because of this program. Personally, it has helped me alot. AA/NA doesnt just attend to drug issues, it also lets you open up to everyone in a secure room about personal problems/issues/insecurities and allowes you to talk them out which is a great feeling afterwards. Just my 2 cents

Even though they include "God" in their prayers and routines...> So if you have a problem with the usage of "God" subsitute it for "high power." Sorry, it doesn't work. Same thing, different name. The idea of prostrating oneself to some (real or imagined) authority is distateful. There are other, better ways to acheive the same goal without sledgehammering your dignity.> AA/NA meetings are highly successful....if you...Anectdotal evidence. If you actually track AA's success rate, you'll see that, on average, it doesn't work. Statistically, it's a superstitious. But if it works for you, by all means continue with it. The point is that there are alternatives to AA that people can try, and claim to have success with.

well that may be true, but also keep in mind that many people in AA/NA are there because their forced to be through courts, jail, rehab centers, or family. It may not work for everyone but nevertheless is an inspirational place to be, for me atleast assuming you find an interesting meeting. There is of course alternatives but usually most of them are linked to NA in some way, theres rehabs, IOP (intensive out patient,) half way houses, theres even a moderation program for people who stil want to use/drink but are supposedly trained to keep it strictly moderational, even though if i recall right they only had a 2% success rate. But i guess whatever works for you...as long as it works fuck it lol

many people in AA/NA are there because their forced to be through courts, jailFrom a civil rights perspective, that's really bad. An agency of the government is able to force people into a program involving religious indoctrination. "Higer power" is a religious concept.If people want to do it voluntarily, great. But it's just wrong to be forced into it, especially since, as I mentioned above, there are non-religious alternatives (that do not teach "moderation". I doubt that many people who've had problems with methamphetamine addiction would benefit from moderation education.)

i got sent to rehab through the court system (the rehab or jail choice) i got sent to NA meetings through rehab. When I was in rehab in Maine all there was were meetings and rehab so meetings were exciting because it let you leave the complex and interact with the real world. i always thought it was a little brainwashy/cult like but when there was nothing else to do and at a shitty point in my life the stuff they were saying made sense. I know people whose lives were literally saved by NA, it pulled them back from the edge and if you are not an addict then you cannot possibly understand the way NA or AA works. I don't mean that in a snide or spiteful way but its the truth, in the same that one cannot understand having cancer unless they've had it. I am an addict, i cannot say i am a recovering addict becasuse I still use, not the drugs that got me into trouble but i still do drugs. and to some a drug is a drug is a drugNA / AA might be cult like and sometimes i think its complete and utter bullshit but i've seen it work and for some time it worked for me, until i resisted it and went back out to the streets, so if its cult like it's certainly not in a negative wayi'm a atheist, i struggled with the fact that God is a major player in NA and AA's 12 step program. i felt that i wasnt being included and so therefore fuck them (thats how my mind works) the problem with other recovery type programs is that they are not as well known and well practiced as NA and AA NA/AA meetings are everywhere as opposed to other smaller groups and sometimes you need to just be with other addictsa quote from the Big Book states that "religion is for people who are scared to go to hell, Spirituality is for people who have been to hell and are scared to go back" that quote really spoke to me and is one of the few that doesnt mention god in the big book.

It's not just the religious aspect (which is fine for people who are into it, but not fine if they're forced into it by the court), but the fact that AA (don't know about NA), on the average, doesn't work. If it worked for you, that's great, but if you follow people through the AA program, you'll find that, after a couple of years, they're not any better off than people who don't do anything at all.I mentioned some other (non-religious) programs further up in the thread that some people claim work, although I don't have any independent data to support them.On the other hand, it's better to take a step in the right direction than to do nothing so, if AA (or NA) helped you, all I can say is....great! I hope you continue to get support from the other folks in the group.

Coincidentally, South Park had an episode on alcoholism_ and AA, and AA was sent up for convincing people that they are powerless (and AA's cult-like aspects), rather than trying to instill within themselsves a sense or responsibility (as taught by Stan's karate instructor).It's another way to look at things.