Thirty something...

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"But I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day, then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky."Homer SimpsonI have a question for the older members of the site, well more of rant but still a question...I'm 32, I've been married for about 10 years, no kids, a career, we make enough money to be more than comfortable, we travel a lot, no big debts, things are good. The problem I have is that, by and large, it's a pretty fuckin' boring life. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean the married part. I mean the living part. I have always been someone who likes to party and it seems that all the people my age never do anything anymore. They act like their 80 not 30. I know they have careers. I know they have responsibilities. I know a lot of them even have kids. However it seems that they never do anything fun. Their idea of fun is so fuckin' repressed. "Lets go out to T.G.I. Fridays. Won't that be a hoot! ...uh huh ...uh huh." Give me a fuckin' break. Around here at least it seems that you can never get a group of people together for anything. As I said, I know they have kids and I am in no way suggesting that they should shirk that responsibility but it seems that they cease having any life of their own. I can listen to and debate the merits of calls in pee-wee football and t-ball all day long, with the best of 'em but it seems that more and more people my age use the kids as an excuse. It's like, "Hey so-and-so is having a new years eve party out at the cabin. Ya wanna come?"And they're like, "Sounds fun but we have the kids."Meanwhile I'm thinking, "It's a fuckin' month away. Drop the kiddos off at mema's, come out and get stupid and have a little fun one night out of the fuckin' year."And don't get me started about how the tailgate party has to take place in the garage under the watchful eye of mama. Worst yet, if you don't run in the same church social group as them, you may as well forget about anything other than a polite nod.Don't think I'm harping on parents here either, because I see the same shit in couples without kids. One of the guys I work with, who's 38, quit playing jazz sacks in his band or whatever about the time he hit 30 and ever since he and his wife have been sitting and doing nothing other than saving money to "get into a good home." He doesn't mean buy a house. He means to get into a good resthome. I hear this shit all the time and not just from him but rep's. who come in the office. Maybe it's just my immaturity talking but I find that kinda sick. Like with the kiddos, I'm not saying, shirk your responsibilities and forget about saving for the future. I'm just saying enjoy some of the here and now. For god's sake go dancing if nothing else.What brings all this up is that I haven't slept in three days and last night I was laying there thinking about how shit was when I was kid and how it's changed. I remember that adults used to get together for cocktail parties or go dancing and make drunken jackasses out of themselves. Hell, dad and his wife would go to 4 to 6 parties a year and that doesn't include professional gatherings like the bar association. Mom just 1 or 2. I went to granny's or when I was older stayed at friends. I don't know what they did but I assume they had and good time and I enjoyed the little break from them.Now people are so fuckin' uptight if you blaze up at your own party, at your own cabin, you might as well be a pedophile. If you have more than two beers or, god forbid, hard liquor the former crack-ho is planning an intervention and prayin' for ya at church the next day (that's no exaggeration.) I guess my question is, is this what life is like from here on out? Talking about Tiger Woods, the church fund raiser, and planning for aged immobility. Is it just here, the buckle of the bible belt, that's like that, or is it the same everywhere? Is it just my immaturity, my overgrown kid mentality that isn't cute anymore? The biggest question for me is, if this is what being 30 something, 40 something, 50 something is about, how the fuck do you cope? It's fucking morbid to do nothing but watch T.V., talk about how Tiger is doing and live vicariously through your kids. Am I wrong? Shouldn't I be able to go out with the guys and talk about tits without half of the group, of former perverts, looking away in awkward silence? We're 30 were not dead...yet...are we?Maybe I'm just fucked, but playin' biblical Scrabble at the church social isn't my idea of fun.

No...you're not wrong. Too many people do live vicariously through their kids. But as for why I don't party anymore there are several reasons. For one, it just doesn't appeal to me as much anymore...getting stupid drunk just seems, well, stupid. My idea of a good time is hiking in the woods or a fishing trip where I can get up at 5 AM and be on the water before sun-up. I used to party like there was going to be no tomorrow and wake up in the morning wondering where yesterday went. I just grew out of it I guess. I'm older than you though...so that might have something to do with it.

Hey there hun!I am not too much younger than you so I’ll respond heheI remember growing up with my parents they would go out with their friends for a few drinks, we we’re either dropped off at a family members house or we stayed at friends houses (Usually the later of the two). They would often have bonfires at the house as well that we could attend.But as I get older and my friends I had are now having kids and they no longer want to go out for a drink or come to my house party and use their kids as an excuse. Like you said I am not saying they should lower their responsibilities but at the same time I think everyone needs some fun away from the kids. You need a break now and than.I think what happens is the parents get so caught up in their kid’s life that they forget about their own life and actually forget how to have fun away from their kids. In theory that’s not a bad thing, but in reality that can be a problem down the road, because eventually the kids do leave home. You have to be able to have a life away from the family structure or the stresses start to eat at you. There is a fine balance and takes some tuning on how to balance out the home life and the social life without causing trouble in the family life.Perhaps I am thinking too much into it but I think society also plays a role in all this. As the times have changed, it has been thought that once you have children they should be your whole life. Granted children should be your priority and you need to guide and protect them, but you have to take time for yourself; people seem to have lost this. I have noticed this is about the time when people start creating new friendships because the old friendships change you no longer meet the need they had before. Not a bad thing really, sad but not bad just part of life.

"My idea of a good time is hiking in the woods or a fishing trip where I can get up at 5 AM and be on the water before sun-up."I do that same kind of shit but what I find interesting varies from week to week. What I'm talkin' about isn't necessarily a drunken orgy or a kilo with 5 strippers, though, admittedly, both of those would have some outstanding entertainment value. I'm talkin' about simply getting together for some laughs. Hell a tailgate party were you didn't have to worry about Emily's Rules of Etiquette would be a smashing start.

WTF is an urban intellectual doing living in rural/suburban bible-belted Oklahoma? You'd do better living in Kabul.What exactly ties you to that part of flyover country? Aren't you an architect? Does your wife have portable skills? Have you ever thought about relocating?

Steve, I often wonder what I'm doing here as well. Maybe that's why my wife and I travel so much. As for what ties me to this backwater. Well I have a ranch here and, more importantly, this is where my people are, my tribe of NDNs. I can't explain it but I have no desire to leave the few of them that are left.As for the other, yes I'm architect. Yes, my wife has portable skills and coincidentally we were looking at lots in Manitou Springs to build a get away home, though Manitou seems to be going yuppie like everything else. There's no room for bohemians in the world anymore.

Ahhhh....family and cultural issues. Sorry for my lack of sensitivity. I'm used to living in an area where that sort of thing is not highly valued. I'm definitely not saying that that's a good thing.The getaway / second home thing sounds good. Where do you find bohemians nowadays? Maybe western Massachusetts, much of Vermont, central Oregon, other places on the West Coast, and Maui. You should check out Maui, and learn to surf.

What timing! I have been on that "ponder" for a few months now. My friends used to come for a bonfire...hehe, some of the things that used to happen AFTER the kids went to bed. We had tailgate parties, gatherings at the lake...bla bla bla..I really miss that! Now, Im single, with WAY less help, and it is harder for me to do stuff with the group, but, I just don't see an evening of Scrabble all that wonderful. And if I drink, I am a bad mom, whatever! I don't d&d. But hell even my kids give me a bad time if I go dancing, or out to a bar, or what ever.The fact that my kid isn't in every sport, on every committee somehow makes me a bad mom, but I always hear how wonderful she is turning out????? GO FIGURE!Having kiddo's does make it harder, but I think too many parents DO forget that they have themselves to think of also...Way I see it, I can't fill your bucket up if mine is empty...Lets all have a little fun!!

I've always been a quiet person. I think that's part of the key - people are different, and they stay different as they get older.Children do make a big change. There is both the responsibility, and the drain on energy. Babies have you waking up at odd hours and do take a lot of energy, though once they are at school it's not too hard. Ageing does drain your energy too. I started noticing at about 35 that I couldn't run up stairs as fast as I used to, and it gets worse. You notice particularly that you can't stress your system and bounce back as well as you used to, so a big night takes it out of you a lot more the next day than it used to.It's worth noting that as people now have children later than they used to, the strain on the system is worse. People used to get married at 20 and have children straight away. At 30 or so all the kids were at school and at 40 they were leaving home. Now people get married at 30 and the kids haven't left home until you are about 60.In addition, there are psychological changes. New experiences become less desired. I think this is a natural change, designed to encourage people to settle down and be stable parents, but it often needs resisting. It's very easy to get into a rut. People often put all their self into children (which is bad for the children) and/or their career (which often collapses, and ends at retirement).In addition, the times are changing. There are times that are bold and adventurous, and times that are timid and 'safe'. The latter part of the 20th century was bold and adventurous, and in reaction we are going into timid times.

My God, I remember 30-something. It happened REAL fast...So much happened to me in my 30s, and I look back at it now and it seems like it all happened over a weekend. It's late and I will add more to this thread later, but the best I can give you quickly is to AVOID MONOTONY LIKE THE EFF'N PLAGUE!!! Make sure you can tell one day from another months later, by keeping adventure in your life. Go to sporting events, go camping, take classes, sing karioke, etc. Just make sure that you do at least one thing each month that is totally different from anything you've done before. God, I wish someone had told me this when I was in my 30s!

In reply to:Just make sure that you do at least one thing each month that is totally different from anything you've done before. Yeah, like have a threesome.

OoOoo im in for that *jumps up and down at the back "pick me! pick me! *

>To Eddie
I don't think your over thinking anything. I think this withdrawal form any social interaction other than, maybe, on the Internet is a result of popular societal pressures and moraes. It can be argued that a lot of this started with the advent of central heat and air and the demise of the front porch. People were no longer available for interaction, the were absent from the porch. They then compounded the introversion by confining their outside activities to the back yard only. Social interaction got limited to work and maybe a stop at the bar on the way home. As the bar culture has begun to age and pass away plus just become undesirable, for arguably good reason, the social interaction was again scaled back. With the advent of the Internet social interaction, at work, has been reduced even further. The question is does any of this precipitate what is observed now, in seemingly young and healthy people, that is the withdrawal form social interaction. I have no evidence to back it up but I believe it does. I'll go a step further and light a fire here and say that I also believe this is one reason for the resent rise in the church culture in America. Again I have no evidence to back it up but I believe a big part of the migration back to the church has to do with, among other reasons, fulfilling some desire for face to face social interaction. I think, church has become the last bastion of face to face, societally acceptable, socialization, for those past there teens and twenties, in modern America outside the limited number of people in the work place. Before I get flamed this is presented only as my opinion.

>To Thor
I also do all the kinds of things your talking about. My big thing, for the moment, is photography. Those kinds of things are great and reflective periods. I maintain that no one appreciates the sound of the wind in the prairie grass as much as me. I love the kind of moments your talking about and don't think life would be worth to much without them. However, for me, just as there is more to life than social interaction, there is more to life than the way the wind caresses the grass as it flows down the hill.

>To Steve
I said that I couldn't explain why I didn't want to leave my people behind. While I'm confident that you understand this, I have explained it, quite well I think in gazgaz's "Sick of this Shit" thread.

I'll have to check out Maui, learning to surf sounds fun. I love San Fransisco, most of the west coast for that matter. The problem thought is that even if your a well propertied person in Oklahoma you still don't have enough to move out. If I sold the entire ranch I would have just enough for a 1000sq. ft. house on a postage stamp lot on the west cost. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about I have a 2300sq. ft. home, recently remodeled (new kitchen,) worth a whopping $44,000. It's the rare bird that can fly out of this place once they've established themselves here.

>To Pepsi
You are in the same boat I'm in. There's almost nobody around willing to do anything fun. It's almost like if you do anything that is fun, your judged for it, condemned even. Maybe I should act my age but come on people I'm only 32. It seems like, for a lot of people, that their wedding is the last party they will ever have. From then until they retire its nothing but kids and T.V. Then when the do retire they're trying to make up for all this lost time. I have no problem with retirees living every day to its fullest even when you are 90, hell especially if your 90. Why though waste so much of your youth doing nothing but building regrets.

>To Ineligible
I understand being quiet. Believe it or not, I know most here would tend toward not, I am a very quiet person. I never want to be the center of attention at anything. I only like to linger on the periphery and take it all in. The thing is though it seems that increasingly there is no periphery and nothing to take in. The event is no more.

Believe me, I am becoming keenly aware of the slowing effects of age. As I see it though, its only going to get worse the older we get so why not live a little while we still can. I know I couldn't do the shit I did at twenty and truthfully I wouldn't want to, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about getting out living, using what energy we have, with regard to what we are still capable of. They way I see it is it's going to get harder the older you get so why not do what you can while you still can. I know it's a personal thing but for me, I'm one of those people that believe you can sleep when your dead.

As for times changing your are absolutely right. The problem is, as many will one day wake up and figure out, timid lives often make for wasted lives.

>To Lanky
You espouse my personal mantra man. Monotony is the worst drug a person can ever yield to. They get in that rut and don't even know they're there until it's to late and for some reason are so resistant to getting out of it. By the time they realize it their marriage is falling apart, their dieing, their going thought a mid life crises ripping others lives apart and by then its often to late the damage is done the time is gone never to be regained.

All the things you mentioned, with the exception of karaoke :wink:, my wife and I do. We take classes, we learn trades, we learn new languages, we take dancing lessons, we seek out adventures and try new things. Hell, we keep the community college, the vo-tech, and the travel agent in business. All these things are great. They keep the mind sharp and stimulated not to mention keeping the fires of life stoked and hot. Everybody should go out and forge new ground to the extent they're able, maybe even beyond that extent. There is one thing I have found lacking in all of these though. That is the genuine laughter of social interaction. We may smile, we may chuckle but the laughter that social interaction (read a party) provides is not there in the kind of great quantity you have with gathered friends.

I guess the summation of all this is that it's the laughter that I miss. Has modern society forgotten how to laugh.

It sounds to me like the real problem is that you're just not surrounded by like minded people oldfolks, but you hardly need me to tell you that. I think it is a cultural thing, and it's just a real pity that you are a good example of a square peg in a round hole, and I hope you're not offended by that, but it seems to me that your temperament just doesn’t suit your surrounds.Where I come from social interaction is considered very important. I, for example, am thirty years of age and have been a parent for almost thirteen of those years. I have been rip-roaring drunk once a week or so for all of those years and have no apologies to make for it. But the thing is, where I come from, the vast majority wouldn’t expect me to make any apologies for it. (and it'd be a right case of the pot calling the kettle black if they did!)Yes the arrival of children and adulthood in general do call for a calming down and taming of sorts behaviourally, but it shouldn’t be expected that people comport themselves like walking corpses upon parenthood or their thirtieth birthday - that's just ridiculous! Irish children think nothing of seeing their parents go out once every week or two and, either falling in the door the worse for wear, or not seeing them till the next morning as the parents have come home long after the babysitter has put them to bed. Our children understand that parents have lives too and that they dont involve swings and roundabouts. There's no parental guilt involved, nor should there be.Reading what you have written has made it very clear to me that half of Ireland would be considered unfit parents were they to emigrate to your part of the world and behave as they had always done at home. To hell with public opinion would be my advice, and good luck with the holiday home, I wish you many wild times there!

"...your temperament just doesn't suit your surrounds."That's the thing though it's the surrounds that have changed. I don't mean just people my age getting older and having kids. Thats why I didn't limit my chastising and questioning to just them. It seems like its everybody over twenty-five. As far as I can tell it's not just my town, my tribe, my county, or state. It seems more like a societal shift. It was like in 1999, or there abouts, someone flipped a switch and all the former drunken perverts became slack-wearing orthodoxy neophytes, regardless of their age. I think Ineligible hit the nail on the head, these are "timid times" or so American society has tended toward, as far as I can tell. Your right, in that I don't fit in, I have no interest living a timid wasted life. I just wonder how far out this lack of living extends are there any places safe from it or is it pervasive to most or all modern American communities.

I cant imagine that it would be common to most or all modern American communities, though of course not being an American citizen I could not swear to that either, but I would be shocked in the most authentic sense of the word if I found that to be true.In any other circumstance I would advise you to throw caution to the wind, sell up and get the hell out of there and never look back, but as you've said you have ties there that go deeper than a lot of people have to their areas of residence. An alternative suggestion (and I'd be interested to know if you've considered this) would be to rent out the property in which you now live and spend some time travelling round America with your wife. If both of you could manage your work around such an operation it would give you the chance to see first hand for yourselves the reality of different lifestyles around America. If you found somewhere you'd like to settle, there is always the option of selling up and buying a small holiday property in the same area you're now living in now. You wouldn’t have to cut your ties completely; you could spend vacation time in 'the buckle of the bible belt' as you call it (I laughed when I read that!) and sure isn’t that what holiday time is all about, spending time with family? I think it could actually work out very well, but of course it would take time and effort and determination and would involve some BIG challenges and commitments and life-altering decisions you would both have to take on and tackle as a team. I suppose such a commitment really hinges on how unhappy this environment is making you feel; if it is making you feel seriously unhappy, you have to ask yourself would it be wise to put down deeper roots where you are now (as in having kids there etc) and then turning round ten years from now when you’re 40+ and thinking ‘shit, I knew we should have got out of here before it was too late’?All I know is that life is too bloody short to be spent in a state of discontentment if there is anything you can possibly do about it..

"One of the guys I work with, who's 38, quit playing jazz sacks in his band or whatever about the time he hit 30 and ever since he and his wife have been sitting and doing nothing other than saving money to "get into a good home." He doesn't mean buy a house. He means to get into a good resthome"By the way, I forgot to say, when I read that it just knocked me sideways; You should ask him has he got his coffin pick out and paid for yet.

In reply to: I just wonder how far out this lack of living extends are there any places safe from it or is it pervasive to most or all modern American communities. I've noticed and wondered about this too, and I think you are right about it. There are pockets of people who fill their days with adventure, and then there are those who do nothing much more than watch other people live their lives, primarily on reality TV PTUI! (turns and spits on the ground)Video is the opiate of the masses, not religion. There are those who live life, and those who watch it. Pick people who don't have cable to hang with. I've seen people on the new airplanes with video in every seat, and they look like zombies when the screens are activated. It's actually kind of scary in a way. It's a drug, and it affects the entire nation. People who can't afford medical coverage will have a bigscreen and cable at home...

>To Star
I would be willing to be the malaise of inactivity is more common to Americans than you would think. Physical inactivity when coupled with the lack of cerebral stimulation only exacerbates the problems of growing older and modern American society seems, to me, in many respects to encourage the problem.

As for the 38 year old having his funeral planned. I know for a fact that he does. He decided to get everything bought now as hedge against inflation. The problem isn't just him though. I hear this same shit coming from half the business associates and rep's. I talk to. If we go to lunch the topic invariably comes up, and these aren't old guys. Just the other day one of them was going on about when he retires he should have enough money to get into some home that has a golf course around it. The fucked up part of this is though that he never goes to play golf now. I don't get it. It's not just the "game" of golf I don't get either. :grin: I don't get that whole way of thinking.

>To Lanky
>>>"Video is the opiate of the masses, not religion."

Couldn't agree more. That reminds me of the Calvin and Hobbs cartoon that showed Calvin sitting in front of the T.V., after he leaves the T.V. is still on and it says, "Karl Marx, you ain't see nothing yet." How true, how true. Personally I refuse to pay for cable. There are some things in life that should just be free. That leaves me only getting 3 networks stations and PBS but I'm a PBS kinda guy so it works for me.

Like I,...sort of, concluded, it's the laughter of gathered friends that I think I miss the most. What I long for anyway. I only get that about twice a year anymore it seems, during the tribal dances. NDNs do love to giggle about shit.

In reply to: Personally I refuse to pay for cable. There are some things in life that should just be free. God, it's good to find a kindred spirit! No cable or satellite dish for me either, although I do like CNBC when I travel. I refuse to pay for ads though. In reply to: That leaves me only getting 3 networks stations and PBS but I'm a PBS kinda guy so it works for me. I did relent and put a Radio Shack antenna on the roof, and now we get 2 PBSs, all 6 networks, 3 spanish, 3 independent, 2 religious and QVC stations. Way more than we need, or have time to watch. DFW is a MAJOR market...PS. I love Watterson's work too! I own 6 of his books...