based on the information contained herein, that would be a fairly accurate observation.oh, and BTW... Lagavulin rocks
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Ethnic minorities in Ireland
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Alas, I'm not that well-versed in Whiskey, as is my friend with Scottish roots (he used to also brew his own quite excellent beer). In fact, I accidentally met him in Montreal a while back (during Jazz Festival time), and he and his wife familiarized me with the high-alcohol Canadian beer offerings. The stuff tastes pretty funny at first, but soon becomes deliciously refreshing.
I'll have to check with him on what's what with single-malt Scotch. He's the dude who sent me the link in this post.
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you linked to a reference to a link dude... that's like a band doing a cover of a cover
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”I only saw observations”I would say the same Unsupervised, if it was the first time I saw them; but the same ‘observations’ put time and time again, while based on nothing but conjecture, eventually morph into ignorant and arrogant assertions. Anyway, as I’ve said, I’ve heard this speculative nonsense from Steve several times before and it gets a little tiring. I’ve never visited Florida, so wouldn’t dream of doing a quick google search on the area and styling myself as an authority on the ethnic mix or any other cultural characteristic of that part of the world, but then, some people just don’t get the idea that you should have some personal experience of a culture before authoratively commenting on it. I have spent time in Manhattan and San Francisco, but still, I wouldn’t regard the few weeks I spent in either location sufficient to make me an authority on the culture of those American cities! God help us all if Steve ever spends a weekend here; he'll probably consider himself sufficiently experienced to write an encyclopaedia on it.On the subject of my hair colour, for anyone who’s interested; it is blacker than the people Steve contends don’t exist here in any significant number.
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Statistics are objective. How you gonna argue the numbers? You can argue the adjectives until the cows come home, though. To someone from Miami, Ireland sure is Anglo-Saxon white.
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"To someone from Miami, Ireland sure is Anglo-Saxon white"
Firstly, I understand North Americans use the term 'Anglo-Saxon' in very broad terms to describe any white English-speaking person; but it's original meaning, and the one still used in Europe, is as a descriptive term for somebody of English descent. We're Celts.
If the ratio of ethnic minority is considerably higher in Miami (or wherever else in America) then of course Ireland at only 20/25% ethnic minorities will seem whiter than those cities; because it is! That's obvious. But what IS your point? That Ireland, because it has more whites than blacks/Asians etc, qualifies as "Lilly white" to you? Well, if you really want to believe that Steve, believe it. It sure isn't going to make any difference to my life!
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Well, if you really want to believe that Steve, believe it.Can you point me to current demographic statistics? Or shall I just take your word for it?
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I don't understand point of your thread.
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We're trying go come to a conclusion on a simmering issue: whether or not Ireland (still) has a racially homogeneous population. There's no doubt that it did 20 years ago.The disagreement seems to be causing agita for at least one person across the pond.
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You can choose to take my word for it Steve, or you can do a bit of googling of your own. You’re more than capable in that regard!It might interest you to know that we had so many women arriving here from all over the globe in the latest stages of pregnancy (one even gave birth in an ambulance on her way from the airport!) that we had to have a citizenship referendum in 2002. As Irish law stood, prior to that referendum, anyone born in Ireland had automatic Irish citizenship. I think that is still the case in America, correct me if I'm wrong. (Not that you'd need any invite on that score Steve, lol!) But the problem, as it was seen, was that Ireland was the only country in Europe which granted automatic citizenship to the children of foreigners born here, so the country was unwittingly acting as a magnet for people from all over the globe and many people were coming here purely to give birth and by so doing attain European status. In fact it was the heads of Irish maternity hospitals who first alerted the government to the issue. The referendum removed that right at more than 80%; I think it was 82/83%, so obviously there was strong feeling about it. I suspect also (though it was never reported in the media, at least not that I am aware of) that the political leaders of other EU nations were unhappy about the situation, as Ireland was effectively acting as a gateway to Europe for people who would copper-fasten their rights by giving birth in Ireland and then travel from Ireland to other EU nations and claim all the rights that a European born adult would have, including welfare benefits etc.I can’t imagine such an issue arising in the sort of society you seem to believe Ireland to be.
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I didn't spend the day looking for statistics, but I wasn't able to find any up-to-date numbers for Ireland. Northern Ireland kept coming up.> As Irish law stood, prior to that referendum, anyone born in Ireland had automatic Irish citizenship. I think that is still the case in America, correct me if I'm wrong. (Not that you'd need any invite on that score Steve, lol!)Jus soli still obtains in the U.S.: if you're born in any legal territory of the U.S., you're a U.S. citizen. That comes from English common law.> The referendum...> I can’t imagine such an issue arising in the sort of society you seem to believe Ireland to be.I don't understandwhat you mean. It looks like Ireland wants to close the gate on immigrants who are coming to grab some European largesse. It doens't say much about the country's current ethnic make-up.
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“I don't understand point of your thread”The point of this thread is to irritate me SDP.“Personally, I'd like to know why an Irish Ireland is a bad thing to you?Diversity isn't necessarily a current fad in all countries on the face of the earth and why would it be? It's not like they committed genocide in order to accomplish this”You’re right Radeckl, and if Steve had made the assertions he is making today twenty years ago he would be right too, at least on the point of Irelands being “as white as a bleached sheet of paper” – derogatory undertones though that statement clearly has.What Steve doesn’t understand is that complex political and economic factors have combined to make the process of globalisation occur much more rapidly in Ireland than previously seen anywhere in the English speaking world. What took more than fifty years to happen in England has happened in Ireland in less than fifteen. Because Ireland had such a tiny ethnic minority group twenty years ago he clearly doesn’t consider that we could have evolved as much as we have done in the last decade or so. There’s only one way to set yourself straight it seems Steve; get your arse down to your travel agent!
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Why does America have border controls on the verge of its territory that borders with Mexico? Every country that I am aware of has restrictions re immigration. Could you point out why this is any different?
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I've no doubt there are, but how many are not? There are 50.000+ Irish illegal immigrants in the US who are currently seeking an amnesty and as far as I am aware are finding it very difficult to get. You cant blame the US for protecting their right to American citizenship. My point is that you cant blame the Irish either.
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> What Steve doesn't understand is that complex political and economic factors have combined to make the process of globalisation occur much more rapidly in Ireland than previously seen anywhere in the English speaking world.
Having a foot in the high tech world, I understand that quite well. I'm familiar with investments by Intel, Analog Devices, and many other companies. In fact, in my scuba certification class were two young women doing an internship at Analog Devices in Massachusetts. They were electrical engineering students, and one of them worked in the semiconductor fab (fabrication facility). They were from the University of Limerick. In fact, a few days ago I said, "I can't believe that the people in Limerick and other cities who are starting high tech companies are sitting in the pub drinking ten pints a night", meaning that that's certainly not what they're doing.
In August I said:
In reply to:
I realize that Ireland has increasing numbers of immigrant minorities, but I don't think you could say that it has an African or Arabic culture. You are a white person in a white culture.
I don't think you liked that.
In July I pointed out that Ireland has a Jewish community. Also, Bob mentioned that "single girls" have to go to England if they want an abortion.
In May, irishace started a thread on Ireland. It's called "Ireland".
In July '05, Bob and I conversed...
In reply to:
Steve>> Ireland is a lot less Catholic than it used to be.
Bob> Its not less Catholic, still 97%.
[more Steve...]
That's what I meant. Not fewer Catholics, but less depth of belief. Less church influence. Just as you said.
Wow, 97% Catholic. That doesn't sound very diverse. I wonder how current Bob's figures were.
And finally, in March '05, I said:
In reply to:
People used to have to leave Ireland to find a decent job. Now people are coming from all over the world to get some of the jobs that Ireland is having trouble filling.
To most Americans, Ireland is represented by that strange-looking leprechaun on the Lucky Charms cereal box (which isn't available in Ireland). To me, Ireland is where a lot of microchips and Bostonians come form. I think most Americans feel a fondness for Ireland, and I would hope that they understand how crappily Ireland has been historically treated by England (I have no dog in that fight...just my own observation of history).
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Something interesting the U.S. Census bureau published in 2004.
> Although not an "official" holiday in the United States, St. Patrick's Day has a long history of being celebrated with parades and general goodwill for all things Irish.
> 34.3 million -- Number of U.S. residents who claim Irish ancestry. This number is almost nine times the population of Ireland itself (3.9 million).
> 24% -- Percentage of Massachusetts residents of Irish ancestry --- about double the national percentage. The other New England states also have relatively high concentrations of people of Irish descent, with New Hampshire (23 percent) and Rhode Island (21 percent) the highest.Massachusetts, where I lived, has a population of about 6.5 million. That means that there are over 1.5 million people of Irish ancestry there, and I suspect most of them are concentrated in the Boston area. That's where I lived for 20 years (if you include southern New Hampshire in the mix). I feel practically Irish. In any case, practically everyone I knew was Catholic.
Perhaps you don't remember where the phrase "lily white" first came up here. It was in the thread titled, "Do you find BLACK WOMEN sexy or attractive?" It had to do with some insensitive remarks you made in that ridiculous thread. The implication was that you appear to have precious little experience in dealing with people who don't look like you. I don't care if your son has an ethnic friend. You still seem to have little personal experience.
Before the early 80's (and still, to a pretty large extent), New Hampshire is a very "Anglo" (i.e., European, in American popular usage). One of my college classmates from there had never seen a black person until he was maybe 5 or 6 years old, until he visited Boston with his parents. He didn't know what to make of people with dark skin. The people of New Hampshire are very nice, but that's not the place I'd go to understand racial issues.
I don't care whether Ireland has many or few minorities. The issue is that someone who has lived her life in Ireland, with occasional vacations outside the country, and who hasn't done much research in the area, is not in a very good position to understand black/white racial issues, and certainly not in the United States.
You clearly never understood my issue with that thread, so here it is, in brief: It was dehumanizing.
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That's a really good point. I think what you were trying to say was taken out of context. Good points all around.The implication was that you appear to have precious little experience in dealing with people who don't look like you. I don't care if your son has an ethnic friend. You still seem to have little personal experience.Another good point.
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In reply to: Wow, 97% Catholic. That doesn't sound very diverse. I wonder how current Bob's figures were. That was a mistake on my behalf, it is an old figure. The current figure is somewhere between 80% and 90%, and the number of non-practicing Catholics is constantly rising.And it should be taken into account that a lot of immigrants are also Catholic. I know a Romanian family that came to Ireland 2 years ago and they have gone to church more in the past 2 years than I have in my 19 year life.
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"What is the cause of this mass migration of humanity all over the globe? Lack of opportunity at home and the inability of their home land to further support their masses?"
Yes Radeckl, with, I believe, at the root of that, war and the threat of war; a general sense of civil unrest. As far as I can see that seems to be the driving force behind a lot of the mass movement of people. A Sudanese woman who lives down the street described to me what is going on in her country and what has brought her and her family here. She is not from anywhere near the Darfur region. I got the sense in that conversation that you don't need to be personally embroiled in the most horrific aspects of war to be so affected by it as to deserve political asylum. I'm not going to spill the particulars of my neighbours personal business all over the internet, but I think you'll understand where I'm coming from anyway. Incidentally, she and her family have been granted political asylum.
Economic migrants from areas where there is no civil unrest, beyond the disharmony that comes from simple poverty, have arrived here in their hundreds of thousands. We have around 300.000 thousand Poles living here, for example. Half our most popular daily newspaper is written in Polish now. I don't know who is or isn't aware of it, but Europe is on the verge of a massive expansion, with fifteen new member states in the process of joining. Ireland, unlike most other EU states, has already opened its boarders for workers from these accession states.
'..the population of Ireland itself (3.9 million)'
I wouldn't trust much the US Census Bureau had to say if they are putting that figure forward as the population here as of two years ago. It's been the mid eighties since our population was that low.
"You are a white person in a white culture... I don't think you liked that"
No I didn't like that Steve, because it was incorrect, and because you based your assertion that I had no contact or experience of ethnic minorities on that incorrect assumption.
"I don't care if your son has an ethnic friend. You still seem to have little personal experience."
I'm not going to put to you all the links my son, myself and the rest of my family have with people of different backgrounds Steve. There is no reason that I see to defend myself here.
"It doens't say much about the country's current ethnic make-up."
This was in response to my discussing the 2002 Irish citizenship referendum. I don't understand how you contend that the holding of the referendum in any way reflects the country's ethnic make-up.
"I don't care whether Ireland has many or few minorities"
Really? So why are you putting this degree of effort into mollifying yourself that it hasn't?
As for CBW; if I asked her if she preferred chocolate or vanilla ice cream she would turn that into a race issue. I think her attitude in that regard has made itself apparent in A LOT of threads, so I really would have no respect for any remark she had to make in this one.
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As for CBW; if I asked her if she preferred chocolate or vanilla ice cream she would turn that into a race issue. I think her attitude in that regard has made itself apparent in A LOT of threads, so I really would have no respect for any remark she had to make in this one.Well, one would make the observation that you let your emotions get the best of you and you are dramatic. It was you who turned this thread into a bitch fest by saying Steve was making "arrogant assumptions about Ireland" when he was merely stating an opinion about some research he found. You need to learn how to not let your emotions get the best of you and learn how to not personally attack people on here. When you learn those 2 qualities, then you can argue with the best of us Until then, don't bother.Oh, and as for chocolate or vanilla--neither. Cookies 'n cream all the way! And why do you have to pick chocolate or vanilla? Why is it always about color with you