Is it okay for a christian of the baptist belief to masturbate????
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Masturbation and christians
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See this thread, this thread, and others on the same subject; or do a Google search on Christian masturbation; or discuss it with your minister; or make up your own mind, with the understanding that Jesus never said a word about masturbation, and that the story of Onan has to do with his defying God's will rather than masturbation.I lean toward the "make up your own mind" strategy after reading the arguments. You have to figure it out for yourself.
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If you're worried about whether it conflicts with your faith, I'd certainly talk it through with your minister. The Roman Catholic Church traditionally condemned the practice because it involved the wastage of semen in a context that wasn't reproductive although I think attitudes are more liberal now than used to be the case. Generally speaking the mainline protestant denominations take a liberal view of masturbation and don't regard it as wrong or sinful, at least nowadays. I'm Church of England and I think the general CofE view is a liberal one. It used to worry me a bit years ago but my vicar reassured me that it was alright and perfectly normal.
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The OP may be talking about the Southern Baptist church, which is far more conservative than the Church of England. Here's an article by a masturbating Southern Baptist pastor.
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SteveA wrote:"The OP may be talking about the Southern Baptist church, which is far more conservative than the Church of England."That's certainly possible. I don't know whether the American Southern Baptists are any stricter when it comes to matters of sexual morality than their British counterparts are though. Perhaps someone 'in the know' could enlighten me. British protestantism in the main, and I include the CofE as well as the various Free Churches within that broad definition, take on the whole a liberal attitude when it comes to the question of masturbation.
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The Southern Baptist Convention doesn't take a liberal view on much of anything. This blog page is a few years old, but it pretty well captures the American evangelical Christian mindset. It doesn't address masturbation, though.
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Ah, my education continues apace!
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Sorry Steve, but I take serious issue with that broad brush stroke.That guy certainly DOES NOT capture or typify the American Conservative evangelical mindset. For one thing, he's a Reformed Christian, which is not the majority of Conservative Christians.I know you and others want desparately to believe that's what conservative Christianity is, but it ain't. Why don't you let the Christians speak for themselves and not try jump through hoops to stereotype us as you frequently do.
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To the OP - I am a Christian (you know, one of those monsters) who believes it is not a sin to masturbate...even at Christmastime.You should check out the book "The STruggle" written by a youth pastor named Steve Gerali. Will make you feel better.
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He's a fundamentalist Christian. He beleives that the bible contains the inspired word of God. His scriptures are the same as the scriptures of all Chirstians. You can argue over specific translations of the New (and Old) Testament, but it's hard to argue against his interpretation. In 1979 Bailey Smith, head of the Southern Baptist Convention, declared that "God doesn't hear the prayers of Jews." The Baptists are thoughtfully praying for Jews' salvation.
In reply to:
The Southern Baptist Convention teaches that personal salvation is only possible through trust and belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior. Thus, they believe that followers of other religions are lost. These beliefs motivate them strongly to try to convert "the lost" to a saving knowledge of Jesus.
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Well, the fact that you don't know the difference between fundamentalist, conservative, and evangelical pretty much tells me it's not worth my time to continue having this conversation with you. You want everyone to believe that all Christians, especially conservative ones, are racist, homophobic, anti-science idoits. Well have at it. Those for whom it matters know the truth.
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The original poster said he's Baptist. The post you replied to was about the Southern Baptist Convention. How would you classify a devout Southern Baptist, given what we know of their leaders' beliefs (which are written down), on both religious and political issues?Then there's the issue of Southern evenagelicals in general. Some are independent, but how may are not Southern Baptists?If you would like to contradict any specific point that I've made, or that were made in any of the references, I await your reply.
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In reply to:it's hard to argue against his interpretationI'd have to take issue with you there, Steve. I think it's very easy to take issue with his interpretation of the Bible.One of his most telling comments is "God may use the wicked for His purposes but he still holds them accountable (which must really annoy them)". He sees "the wicked" as quite different from himself, doesn't he? Many of the Psalms take a similar attitude, but you don't get it from Jesus. Jesus' strongest language was directed at people who thought they were holier than others.The fact that the blog writer's definition of Christian excludes the Roman Catholic Church gives a clue that he sees the world through an especially narrow mind.
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The context here is the United States, particularly the South (and to some extent, the geographical middle of the country), which has a high concentration of evangelical Christians and Southern Baptists.
The more hard-line Christians freely pick passages from the Old Testament. That's why the majority of evangelicals and Southern Baptists, and certainly most of their leaders, consider homosexuality an abomination. Another widely-held belief is that you have to accept Jesus as your personal savior in order to be "saved" (hence the John 3:16 signs sometimes seen at sporting events).
Also, the evangelicals' support for Israel is indeed a double-edged sword for the Jews. As far as they're concerned, it's the right thing for the wrong reason. I'm sure that fundamentalist Jews in Israel are not at all pleased.
To address Damien's point about conservatism: The Republicans have been successfully harvesting evangelical votes by appealing to them with wedge issues, like homosexual marriage and abortion. The evangelicals are finally starting to realize that they're being played like a violin. Bush has delivered very little, beyond the Terri Schiavo circus. It turns out that "evangelical" doesn't imply Republican. But it certainly does not imply "liberal" or "social safety net" either. Hillary Clinton is not likely to get a lot of evangelical support unless she runs against Satan himself.
I challenge you to polling statistics, to see what evangelicals and Southern Baptists believe. I think you'll be surprised.
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Homosexuality (the act) is considered an abomination because that's what it's called in the Bible in more than one place. The Bible also states that Christ said, "The only way to the Father (God) is through me." Draw your own conclusions about those facts...but it's those who pick and choose what they want in the Bible that ignore those facts.Right facts, bass-ackwards conclusion on your part, Steve. As to the point of this post, there is nothing in the Bible against it. As long as you're not letting it take the place of God in your life, I say it's not a problem...go for it.
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but it's those who pick and choose what they want in the Bible that ignore those facts.Gee.. kind of like yourself, huh??
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There are so many conflicting opinions about masturbation in religion.As far as the Christian / Jewish religion is concerned (as well as a few others which are base of the same books in the Old Testament), the arguments against masturbation are all centered around the story of Onan, which is the closest mention there is anywhere in the Bible, and even that is NOT to what it refers.In the story of Onan, it was part of religious dogma that if a man were to marry, but die without producing an heir, then his brother would be expected to inseminate his widow. However, when Onan's brother died he obeyed the rule of the scriptures & had sex with his brother's widow, but in order to avoid having to go through the responsibility of fathering a child he disobeyed the word of God & withdrew at the last moment - "Spreading his seed on barren ground", which is the phrase that evangelical teachers have always interpretted as referring to masturbation, whereas it is merely nothing more than the Withdrawal Method of contraception - the only form of contraception, incidentally, of which the Catholic Church approves, just to confuse matters further.
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Right facts, bass-ackwards conclusion on your part, Steve. So I trust that you did not find any points of disagreememt with my references. (Ineligible, there's a data point for you on American evangelical opinion.)What conclusion do you disagree with?We agree that the bible doesn't have much of anything to say about masturbation. But what does it have to say about premarital sex? Is that also an abomination, like mixing meat and dairy?
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I'm really not in the mood to have this conversation with you.Nonetheless: In reply to: How would you classify a devout Southern Baptist, given what we know of their leaders' beliefs (which are written down), on both religious and political issues? How should I classify your beliefs as an American? Given what I know of our president's beliefs... Does he speak for all Americans? Is there only one kind of American who all share exactly the same beliefs? My point is, the president of the SBC is one man with his opinions and beliefs. Those aren't the same for all members of the SBC. Plus, there are as many kinds of Southern Baptists - conservative to liberal - as there are breeds of dogs.I can show you SB's who condemn masturbation and those who endorse it. Same with homosexuality, women in the pulpit, presidential candidates, the eating of raw vegetables, and anythign else you wanna toss up.I know it's convenient for you and others to stereotype religion and people of faith, but it just doesn't work that way.
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Just think of it this way, masturbation is not! mentioned at all in the bible. if its sinful, obviously its such a tiny uncared about sin, they didn't even bother to tell people it was.