Could you do it?

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Not would but could you ever be in the army? Male or female just wondering. My brother went to go fight in Iraq a couple weeks after 9/11 and he came back with the nastiest and saddest stories. He doesn't like talking about it much and he feels guilty. But do you think you could ever be a soldier. I don't think I could even hold a gun in my hand let alone shoot someone. I'd be scarred for the rest of my life knowing I robbed someone of their husband/wife/brother/sister or child. I don't get people who like war or fighting. There's nothing positive about it. Pride for your country is just a weak excuse IMO.

I AM becoming a soldier. I am currently applying for a commission in the Royal Marines. Being a soldier isn't just about killing people. That is part of it sometimes, however you don't join for that. You get sent on humanitarian missions, peacekeeping, and yes sometimes a hostile area. But I would feel rather pissed off if someone thought soldiers only run around shooting people.You join for the adventure, discipline, fitness, country, the sense you are achieving something and from what I have heard you make friends for life (no pun intended).I personally have no problem with the idea of killing someone; I would never seek out that opportunity, however if it arose I don't think it would be an issue. And let’s face it, if it is I am in the wrong career line.In my other post I said I do not support the death penalty. I do not, I may not have a problem with killing someone who is fighting, but I do with defeated kneeling men. I just thought I would clear that up before someone would throw it in my face.Whether or not you feel that nothing positive comes out of it or not doesn't matter. The fact is it is happening. Diplomacy can never ever solves anything. And when there is nothing left to be said you have to take it by force.I incidentally like war. I haven't been in it, and nor do I like the idea of feeling nervous? Scared? Alone? And being under fire whilst good friends of mine are being shot. However, war is simple. You either win or lose, if you have every advantage you win. If you are not strong enough you lose. Whereas if you compare it to other things you could have every advantage, be better, faster, stronger, cleverer and still lose.I will never have a problem with someone who would never want to be a soldier; it is a very demanding and tough life. I just want people to know fully what they do before they make a judgement.It is slightly hypocritical in the sense that you support the death penalty yet you wouldn't be prepared to do the dirty work yourself.Mr. Nuts

I could do it if i had to. I imagine it to be quite a character building experiance.

"My brother went to go fight in Iraq a couple weeks after 9/11 and he came back with the nastiest and saddest stories"I assume you mean Afghanistan?As for your question, yeah I think I could. Although pain and death does distress me, I still have that boyish war-is-cool attitude in me.

Diplomacy can never ever solves anything.Did you mean something like "Diplomacy can't always solve the problem"?> I incidentally like war.You like war?> However, war is simple. You either win or lose...Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Wars of attrition, and guerrilla wars, can go on for a very long time. The U.S. could still be in Vietnam if they hadn't decided to withdraw. The U.S. could be in Iraq for many, many years, if it chooses to do so. Remember the Hundred Year's War?=========Helmsman> I would in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, while I am in top physical and mental condition, I'm too old to be accepted, that and now I have a lovely new wife, so war doesn't fit in to my equation.My 47-year-old friend in the S.F. area spoke to a recruiter (whom he met in a non-recruiting context), and the recruiter said he could get my friend into the reserves as a translator, since his English is virtually perfect, and he's a native Persian speaker.If you have a skill they need and you're not to ancient, they'll find a way to get you in. I don't think that being in amazing physical condition when in you're 40's is a skill they need very badly. I don't think there would be a slot in the Special Forces for you.

"I personally have no problem with the idea of killing someone;" - Numbnuts...please don't join the army. If you have absolutly NO PROBLEM with taking a HUMAN LIFE (regardless of who they are) you should not be in control of any sort of weapon.I realize that most of that is just big-talk; I've heard it plently of times. My favorite one from a previous job was this: "Oh yea, dead bodies don't bother me a bit" (Comming from a brand new cop)...yet 10 minutes later while we're on the boat trying to lasso a dead body, he's puking off the side, and it took forever to get him anywhere near the body to bag it.Anyways, if you get the chance to talk to veterns, and you get them to speak to you honestly about what they've done and who they've killed; you won't be able to look them in the eye without feeling the pain and remorse they have. There wasn't a single one of them that didn't care about taking a life; they did it because it was the only thing that kept them alive.When/if you get out there, and when/if you kill a man, your life before that point is over. You are a now a man who removed another from this plane of existence, that's an experience you can never undo.

The Irish Army? Hell yes! A few years of training then getting paid to walk around in parades, sounds easy enough. Unless I was one of the unlucky ones chosen to go on UN diplomatic missions.

Originally Posted By: HelmsmaNI would in a heartbeat. Thats the spirit, good to see there are a couple of people like you left around.Originally Posted By: Steve_A> Diplomacy can never ever solves anything.Did you mean something like "Diplomacy can't always solve the problem"?Quite right, I changed what I had written and didn't completely edit and proof read it. Apologies.Originally Posted By: Steve_A> I incidentally like war.You like war?> However, war is simple. You either win or lose...Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Wars of attrition, and guerrilla wars, can go on for a very long time. The U.S. could still be in Vietnam if they hadn't decided to withdraw. The U.S. could be in Iraq for many, many years, if it chooses to do so. Remember the Hundred Year's War?Damn French. How dare they beat us at war, it is so unnatural. Well I suppose by the laws of averages...I like war for the fact that it is simple. I think you are confusing simple with tough. What you have to do is very straightforward however it isn't necessarily easy. It is like being told to cut a lawn with a pair of scissors. Simple, but a lot of work to do.Originally Posted By: Hawker23"I personally have no problem with the idea of killing someone;" - Numbnuts...please don't join the army. If you have absolutly NO PROBLEM with taking a HUMAN LIFE (regardless of who they are) you should not be in control of any sort of weapon.I realize that most of that is just big-talk; I've heard it plently of times. My favorite one from a previous job was this: "Oh yea, dead bodies don't bother me a bit" (Comming from a brand new cop)...yet 10 minutes later while we're on the boat trying to lasso a dead body, he's puking off the side, and it took forever to get him anywhere near the body to bag it.Anyways, if you get the chance to talk to veterns, and you get them to speak to you honestly about what they've done and who they've killed; you won't be able to look them in the eye without feeling the pain and remorse they have. There wasn't a single one of them that didn't care about taking a life; they did it because it was the only thing that kept them alive.When/if you get out there, and when/if you kill a man, your life before that point is over. You are a now a man who removed another from this plane of existence, that's an experience you can never undo. So you think we should have a military which wouldn't be prepared to take a life? Like I say in my post, I would never seek out an opportunity, but you do what has to be done.Maybe it is all big talk, I have never had someone in my crosshairs. However it is not something which you can test yourself for. I just feel that I wouldn't have a problem, but then you do never know.I saw a documentary on TV (Discovery channel) which was all about how people can kill. It was fascinating, they said that 98% of people couldn't and the remaining 2% could. Well it is entirely possible I am within the 2%. Then again it is also possible I am within the 98%. You just don't know until you are there.Besides, I far from said I didn't care for human life. If you are on a patrol somewhere and someone starts shooting at you and quite possibly your best friends you are likely to shoot back. And what is the point in a bullet if it is not intended for a victim.Also, Royal Marines are Navy, not army. Damn Pongos.Mr. Nuts

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I like war for the fact that it is simple. I think you are confusing simple with tough.
What you have to do is very straightforward however it isn't necessarily easy. It is like being told to cut a lawn with a pair of scissors. Simple, but a lot of work to do.
With all due respect, war is often not simple. Sometimes you cut down the grass in one area, and blades pop up everywhere else. You then leave the area you cut, and the lawn immediately pops back up.

Do you think any country can afford to keep 500,000 soldiers in one small-ish country for years on end?

That's been the U.S. experience in Iraq, and it similar to their experience in Vietnam.

What's the simple solution? To bomb them to smithereens with H-bombs?

Maybe you can go to the Pentagon and explain to the generals how it is, since they don't get it and you do.

I think you are misunderstanding me somewhat. I am by no means saying it has an easy solution. I am just saying it is simple. Do you understand what I’m getting at here?Also H-bombs are hideously out of date, I would rather send a trident over there aka "Instant Sunshine".Mr. Nuts

Yes, I understand. When you're using a pick and a shovel to dig a hole in the ground, it's hard work, but simple (or simple-minded).I also understand that when you're idealistic and inexperienced, complex things seem simple. Bush and his people thought that getting Iraq straightened out would be simple. What they were trying to do (nation building) never is.As far as the Trident missile is concerned, what exactly do you think it tipped with? (Answer: some fairly low-yield thermonuclear warheads.)I assume you're joking. We're talking about incinerating millions of Iraqi civilians, aren't we?

... *whispers* this is why so many men should not be in power, too much testosterone mixed with hostility and the almighty love of conquer

well that wasn't quite a whisper I just felt like saying that lol

It might be helpful, but I don't know...the human condition is just so screwed up. People are trying to use their hunter-gatherer brains to live in very large societies, with lots of dangerous weapons. It's as if we were designed to kill each other.

Anyways, if you get the chance to talk to veterns, and you get them to speak to you honestly about what they've done and who they've killed; you won't be able to look them in the eye without feeling the pain and remorse they have. There wasn't a single one of them that didn't care about taking a life; they did it because it was the only thing that kept them alive.Where the hell do you get that from?I know several vets, most of them from the Vietnam era.While its true in most of them, I know 2 that fucking loved it.One ona swift boat running up and down the rivers and when not on that duty he was guarding a harbor. The rules stated anyone entering that harbor after dark was to be killed on site. He told me alot of stories about whena small fishing boat comes in you dont just kill everyone one it. wound em instead, then sink the boat, its more fun to watch the tiger sharks take them down than to jsut shoot the fuckers.Some people idd what they had to do, others enjoyed it. This guy enjoyed it and did 3 fucking years in the jungle. Everyone on his ship was replaced more than once, he still reupped and stayed on a single boat the entire time. Another one I know was army instead of navy. He was in the jungle for several years, and demanded to stay in it, he was pissed when it ended, he had not had enough yet. He has 4 fucking photo albums full of pictures of him posed with dead enemys. He had a necklace of ears he had cut off of the people he killed, just one ear from each death. Ended up with several necklaces rather than jsut one because he couldnt wear them all with the old ones tored in his shit rather then on his neck.The thing that pissed him off the most was that they took those away from him when he came home, no more trophys ya know... he had planned on hanging them up in his front room when he got back.Both of them are now pissed because they cant get back in the service and head for Iraq. Jealous of the people currently there because they get to kill people.Dont even fucking pretend to know what is in the hearts of men.Just because mst people would abor killing doesnt mean they all do. I also know a WWII vet who was on the beach on dday. He refuses to talk about any of it. Came back and became a school teacher. He doesnt relive those days, or atleast not outloud but fuck only knows what plays in his dreams.The first guy told me that some people got sick the first time they pulled the trigger, others just got a hard on and he was one of the latter. Iv been in teh woods with both of them on different deer and elk hunts, Iv drank with them and one of them spent a week at my house during a hunt. Good fucking people, do anything for a friend, always ready to help out, fun loving bastards. But they enjoyed killing.Iv heard hours on hours of thier stories, they had no issues with doing it and loved it each time they pulled thei trigger, it didnt make them a bad soldier and I cant really belive after knowing them for all theses years that they are bad people either.

Americans tend to think that they're cut from some kind of superior cloth, so they wouldn't do such things and have such thoughts. But Americans are just like all other humans. Given a lack of checks or constraints, they will do atrocious things, as will people from other cultures.

"Dont even fucking pretend to know what is in the hearts of men"Yea, I guess my psychology classes and my job as a correctional officer (with all types of offenders) means I know nothing of human behaviour.I don't know what to tell you; except that I've also talked to hard core murderers who killed people because it was fun, too. They've also done it because the feeling of controlling life or death gives them a sense of validation over their own, or a feeling of megalomania.Your buddy who took pleasure in not only killing people, but inflicting un-due suffering is one sick puppy. In truth, probably the only reason he doesn’t murder people now, is because he would lose his freedom, otherwise it would be fair game (He's sick, but not stupid). He may be an otherwise upstanding citizen; but I’ve had the pleasure of reading many files of serial killers, and found out they had families, good paying jobs, all that stuff; not all murderers are rambling psychos. To that end, killing because you have orders or for your life is one thing; if you go out of your way to make sure someone dies a horrible death; you are a murderer; regardless of the setting.If there has been an overwhelming trend I’ve seen with some serial killers and some pedophiles, is that they first hate themselves and feel disgusted at their acts. But as they progress, they lose empathy and make themselves feel as though they’re doing a service. I don’t totally blame either of those guys you talked about; they’re just protecting themselves psychologically; we humans often try to justify or make light of a serious deviant act or urge because we may otherwise go insane if we face the facts head on.Wanting to kill, and even more so; wanting to inflict suffering on another human is deviant in most every culture, and especially in a civilized society.In the case of my WW2 vets, perhaps because our boys were shooting the same race, maybe they felt more empathy? Who knows? I do know I’ve seen more than a couple dozen WW2 vets cry and weep about who they killed, how they did it, and what they saw. Short, related story to the above:When I was a young cadet, I was at a veterans dinner; and one of my squad mates and I were talking to this old solider from the British Army (Moved to Canada after the war). My friend blurted out that he’d LOVE to go to war (I had the same thought). The poor old chap; his face just sunk, his eyes filled with horror and sadness, the likes of which I've never seen. Then, in a voice gushing with pain he said: “You don’t understand the things I’ve seen, the things I’ve done; there is no glory, romance, and no honour in taking another life. Please don’t ever wish to do those things...please” And with his lips trembling, he turned and walked away. That was the last time myself or my squad-mate ever talked about the future glory of ware we'd be involved in.

I never said you know nothing of human behavior, I said dont pretend to know whats in the heart of men. generalizations while fitting to many people ar not fitting to all.They liked the killing, and would return to it if they could.They still do nto like veitnamese, but thats to be expected of anyone who did time there. Some got past it and brought back wives, most didnt.Are they sick? do well epople wear necklaces made of human ears? do well people take pics of everyone they killed?Fuck no, I never said they were not sick, I said they are good people to know, and I dont doubt that they only reason they havent killed anyone isnce is because of the freedom factor, not a doubt in my mind.They are fucking killers, and a war, and the government made them that way, they would never of had the oppertunity to become that if it was nto for the whole fucked fiasco known as 'Nam'different people deal differently, and some have it in them some dont.One never talked about it till we went into Iraq, thats when old feelings started awakening, all the war coverage on TV and what not.I know those few, how many more do you think there are out there ? fucking thousands, created by our lovely government., with more being created right now, every minute of every day in Iraq. Im all for war, when there is a reason, and a cause that men can stand behind, there was no cause ofr vietnam and none for iraq.The vets of WWI and WWII had a cause and felt a duty, they had somethign to belive in going in and they had a clear goal. Thats the difference.

Freedom must often be fought for...as happened a little over 200 years ago in this country (USA). Those who can accept this as fact and value said freedom will be willing to stand up for it and, if necessary, pay for it with their lives. Many a person has no understanding of this because their freedom was paid for by others who came long before them that did understand that there is a price to be paid. If you don't understand it, the least you could do is respect them for being willing to give their lives for something you're benefitting from. I did my time in the navy, and would go back to it if I was called upon.As for how one might feel on the battlefield, understand that if you don't kill, you yourself will be killed...you will be letting somebody else rob your own husband/wife/brother/sister/child. Either way somebody loses...it's the nature of war.

It's too bad that so many people find themselves on battlefields, in the position of having to kill other men for reasons that have little to do with anyone's freedom. For mistakes, misunderstandings, political reasons, avarice, or worse.The current American effort is Iraq was started and conducted by men who would never themselves put their lives on the line in battle, even in a war they claimed to believe in. (Cheney's reason for getting one deferral after another from the Vietanam draft speaks volumes: "I had better things to do.")People who find romance in battle are either mentally ill, or have never been through it. The blood, gore, death, injuries, and lingering mental effects on the soldiers are terrible indeed.It is true that sometimes one needs to fight in order to protect ones freedoms, but throughout human history, that idea is frequently turned on its head.

With the used ass wipe bush having the need to deploy a whole bunch more troops to fix a problem that his dad started in the first place seems a little suspicious. Saddam was never a threat to the security of the US only to bush's oil. Why would depleting the US troops be beneficial? Hold on!! the war happened because of 9/11 when bush said that Iraq was responsible and that Bin Ladin was to be found dead or alive. Over the years, bush has changed his mind about finding his good friend Bin Ladin and just needed to secure the oil. Too bad that Saddam was hung before bush was put to trial for his war crimes. Bring the troops home now! Would another 20,000 troops fix the problem or 100,000? No it simply can't.