Vick and dog fighting Part II

---

So he got 23 months in prison. Do you think this is enough?

Enough? Probably too much.

Originally Posted By: sdpEnough? Probably too much. Really? Maybe I'm too much of an animal lover but I don't think it was enough; I admit that I was hoping for the max punishment of 5 years. I do hope, however, he uses the time wisely to really see and understand how he hurt these poor animal, instead of just dwelling and being upset over his football career that he f-ed up because I personally, at this point, don’t think he’s one bit remorseful over what he did to these animals but instead more upset about getting caught and losing his football career. I still feel you have to mentally deranged to torture and kill an animal just for kicks-and-giggles.

It isn't just for kicks and giggles. It for $, and in some places culture. Seems no worse than bull fighting, or cock fighting.I too love animals, but I also think this whole U.S. Should have to take an anthropology class (or maybe 3), and PASS it...

Quote:Seems no worse than bull fighting, or cock fighting. And I'm not for that either.  Quote:It isn't just for kicks and giggles. It for $, and in some places culture. It was just an expression. But regardless the reason, it's disgusting and cruel. I careless the reason. And as for in some places it the culture, sorry to seem rude but I don't care. Could you even IMAGINE holding a dogs head underwater for the intent on murdering it simply because it didn't fight up to your expecations? The thought of that literally makes my stomach sick. You have to be a mentally sick person to be so cruel to something so helpless.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself
Could you even IMAGINE holding a dogs head underwater for the intent on murdering it simply because it didn't fight up to your expecations? The thought of that literally makes my stomach sick.
To this much I do totally agree. I MYSELF, couldn't imagine.
BUT, YOU would be sick at thing I have had to do in the course of raising animals as well. It is just a matter of exposure, and culture.
The dogs that were drowned, were unable to have "happy" lives. They were trained to fight, that is what they would do their whole life, even if put into a good home. Yeah, I can think of more humane ways to put down a dog. And as far as your concerned, they shouldn't have been trained that way, I get that.
The thing is though, culture, has it's "cruel abnormalities"...
ALSO, we have different perceptions when it comes to mammals, vs. bugs.
I LOVE to hear a fly stick to the trap, and buzz, all the while thinking, "serves you right for coming into my house!!!"
I FEEL a difference, but is there really a difference? Both are lives right?

Okay sorry I had to make another post about the whole “culture” defense and it really just irritates me. I just don’t see that as being a defense. Just because something used to be part of a culture does not make it appropriate or even a legal defense; hell not even a good defense in any sense. I mean seriously! That’s like saying it was okay the way we treated African Americans because it was part of the culture. It wasn’t right the way we treated them, and we changed our laws to reflect that. We can make the U.S. take anthropology classes over and over again and it just won’t matter. There are many things in past societies that were part of their culture that was extremely horrific, but just because it was part of the culture don’t make it right. Like human/animal sacrifices just as an example, they were prevalent in many ancient societies. Would you be okay with that in today’s society simply because it was part of some culture? I highly doubt it.Again I just don’t see a defense in the whole “part of culture” crap.

Originally Posted By: PepsiChaser[quote=NtroducingMyself] I FEEL a difference, but is there really a difference? Both are lives right? I totally get what you are saying. But would you rather die quickly, to the point of instantly or drowned to death? Or Beat to death? I think that alone shows a huge difference. Not to mention you did not torture these bugs for months and than fry them. Hard to compare the two situations but that was the best I can do.And you are right, these dogs regardless would have been unhappy and never been able to live a normal life. The damage Vick and his people did was already done. But as you said, there were more humane ways to put them down. Hell even a gun shot to the head, as much as it always makes me sick to think about, would have been 100 times more humane.

I'm lost. Who would you have agreed with?Ntro wasn't saying it was too much. I am just stating the varying degrees of what we accept. Eddie: the fly trap is a sticky thing, so if a fly is stuck there buzzing for 2 hours, it is a good portion of it's life....Pretty messed up?Added: Anthropology would help BOTH sides of the debate, it would let people who are doing "wrong in our culture" know why WE won't accept it, and let us know why "they" are doing it better. Then we wouldn't be so emotionally charged over decisions to punish. I almost axed a man once for threatening to shoot my dog.....I know what the love for animals is.

I agree with what you said about therapy, and actually meant to add that in a previous post. You are right all animals are important and no animal deserves to be TORTURED and than DROWNED simply because he didn't fight up to their expectations. People seem to miss the point these animals were TORTURED, STARVED, BEATEN, and often MURDERED. These animals have feelings; they feel pain. They felt every single time they got kicked and beaten, they felt every rib break, and felt every tooth that ripped into their flesh every time they were forced to fight another dog. And you don’t think this doesn’t at least warrant two years in prison??? Wow…Because of the actions of Vick and his people something like 60 pit bulls had to be put to sleep because they were, obviously, unfit and could not have been retrained and safely placed in foster homes. These 60 dogs and the dogs unmercifully killed before them should have been in loving homes getting love and playing with their families.I don’t think people even understand Vick and his people would get small domesticated dogs to basically feed to these viciously-created pit bulls so they can be trained how to rip into another dog. It’s right down sadistic. And again this doesn’t warrant prison time?As for the Humane Society putting dogs/cats down simply because they were not adopted in a timely manor also upsets me especially because there are a lot of other agencies that will take them in and find foster homes for them. But in a small, and I do mean small, defense to the Humane Society, at least they are not drowning these animals to death.

Quote:

Eddie: the fly trap is a sticky thing, so if a fly is stuck there buzzing for 2 hours, it is a good portion of it's life....Pretty messed up?

It is a sticky thing. I guess the difference is they were free ranged so to speak. They were not tortured and than forcefully throw into the bug zapper. Again it's a hard comparison. Plus when a fly hits the zappers, its dead instantly... heck it's turn to dust basically that instant. These dogs faced much harsher circumstances.

Again perhaps I'm just weird, but I don't even go out of my way to kill a fly. I'm the person that will usher it out the door if I can lol. When working outside during the summer I won't even kill a bee that's right beside me on the ground, even though I'm deathly allergic to them. It has the right to be there just as much as I do. Now if it starts to come after me than it's on! :wink:

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself

As for the Humane Society putting dogs/cats down simply because they were not adopted in a timely manor also upsets me especially because there are a lot of other agencies that will take them in and find foster homes for them. But in a small, and I do mean small, defense to the Humane Society, at least they are not drowning these animals to death.

Ours works with the whole community for foster care, here, if you have more than 5 dogs you need a kennel license, and they are hard to get.

There aren't enough homes here for the dogs/cats that go to the pound.

The Sheriff has a kennel where convicts train and work with the dogs, yet, many don't get adopted out. Then what?

I blame people who don't do the right thing, I DON'T have pure bred dogs, and they are fixed. Kitties, I get boys, and have tailgate parties...No extra animals running this earth because of MY neglect.
PEOPLE not being responsible causes the over run kennels, the kennels hands get tied, at least they are there to have some animals placed, that would otherwise be hit by cars, shot at, starve to death or other wise live miserably.

It has to be a rough job to be the vet in the euthanasia room at the kennels....

Quote:
It has to be a rough job to be the vet in the euthanasia room at the kennels....
Lord knows I couldn't do it. I would literally be the most depressed person if I had to be in that room. It seriously takes a strong individual.

Wow.. "crime" like he did nothing wrong. Makes me really sick that there are people like you that truly think he did nothing wrong and shouldn't face any consequences. He brutally hurt and killed defenseless animals... and you're okay with this?? So people should be allowed to treat animals in this fashion?? Despicable rationality. Wow...

LoL It's fine that you "like making me sick", it has no effect on my anymore, though in my opinion makes you a questionable moderator but that's not my call. I learned that's just who you are..sad... but who you are. But see there is a difference between catching Tuna, it's for the purpose of eatting. I used to hunt when I was younger to help put food on the table. But killing dogs for the enjoyment of watching two dogs tear each other apart? Not even close to the same thing.

Originally Posted By: HelmsmaN  Quote: I learned that's just who you are I also like to fuck with dogs locked in cars with the windows rolled down a bit, which also makes me a questionable moderator, because afterall, what this board really needs is more (judge-MENTAL) people like you and a less of people "like me". LOL LOL Yup I'm judgement....Anyways back to the topic please

Thanks I appreciate it.

i think that its stupid that he did that but its also stupid that he went to jail for it, im a falcons fan and i cant stand vick for what he did but there is alot more fucked up things happinging then dog fighting, that just my view

Come on now Mods, zip 'em up now or I'll lock the thread.

It seems to me that mammals, at least, are not so different from us. It seems clear that they have at least many of the same feelings we do. One of Temple Grandin's improvements to cattle slaughterhouses was a curved ramp to where the slaughtering was done, so the cattle couldn't see what was happening until the last minute - otherwise they knew what was happening and knew they were going to die. That seems to me to imply quite a high degree of awareness.