http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=371&articleid=20100112_371_0_VATICA776353Really? I Heard that giving the nature some value, showing that it has a life of it's own that its not just for our using was a good message and one clearly portrayed by Avatar.Apparently not.
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The Vatican: Avatar
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The more I hear about 'Avatar', the less I want to see it.
I probably will eventually though. -
Originally Posted By: damien
The more I hear about 'Avatar', the less I want to see it.
I probably will eventually though.The movie its self is okay. The Vatican is ridiculous for opposing it.
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If they find something in the film that is offensive to them, that runs counter to their belief, why are they "ridiculous for opposing it"? It's not like they're calling for a boycott or anything. They're just basically saying 'we disagree with this, and here's why'. Is everyone who doesn't agree with Cameron's one-note worldview ridiculous?I'm not trying to be contentious. Just asking questions.
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It doesn't counter their belief. Not once does it take an offensive stance on Catholicism, yet they took one to the movie. You can't bash a movie for a message you disagree with.They are also ridiculous for opposing it because now more than ever we need to take care of our environment. If I believe in a god who hates the earth, so then I voice that to billions of people, and many of those follow my instructions. Does it make it okay? No. There's a line where beliefs cross with the globe as a whole. Belief's must give way to other people's rights and laws.
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now THIS? damn, they say the movie is against gays, has bestiality and now this?? I give up on people -_-
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Originally Posted By: TechnicalIt doesn't counter their belief. roflmaoAh...so now you can tell them what they believe in and what they don't? How long before you name yourself God? Quote:Not once does it take an offensive stance on Catholicism...How would you know? Do you represent the Catholic church in its entirety?Technical...you're just too much!
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I can actually see why they might speak out to defend their own religion, whilst i like to believe people don't get their ideas of religion and other such important things from movies. Avatar does seem to lend back to earlier pagan religions that worshiped nature and they might view that as a threat?don't get me wrong id rather have nothing to do with religion, but i can sort of see their point.then again it does seem a little silly to argue with a fantasy movie message but that's just me.and one thing i disagree with in that article is Quote: The pope explained in the message that while many experience tranquility and peace when coming into contact with nature, a correct relationship between man and the environment should not lead to "absolutizing nature" or "considering it more important than the human person."Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=371&articleid=20100112_371_0_VATICA776353 particularly about considering nature to be more important than the human person, as far as i can see its a lot easier for humans to reproduce then an entire planet on which they're dependent.
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Originally Posted By: Dantekparticularly about considering nature to be more important than the human person, as far as i can see its a lot easier for humans to reproduce then an entire planet on which they're dependent. Perhaps it's because their view comes from the Bible. In Genesis, we are told that man is to have dominion over the earth...not the other way around. The word "dominion", as it was used, comes from the word for the title of the person who walks through the irrigation fields and opens and closes the slews so that crops get enough water, but are not flooded. In other words, we are given this planet to take care of...but this does not mean elevating it to a status above that of our own.
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Hm. Ok.
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the vatican has to chirp up every now and than or else everyone will forget it's actually there. I'm sure the top grossing movie of all time will remain uninjured by their objections. Quote:In Genesis, we are told that man is to have dominion over the earth...not the other way around. yet we still have zero effect on the damn climate. It just does what it wants and we're only along for the ride. Isn't that right, thor?
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Originally Posted By: unsupervisedyet we still have zero effect on the damn climate. It just does what it wants and we're only along for the ride. Isn't that right, thor? No...it does what God wants.
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oh yeah, sorry, my mistake I've gone to the post office to have my utility bills redirected upwards. God's fault - God's bill
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Considering that I'm educated by catholic priests I have a much better understanding of catholicism then you. So continue to laugh at your own ignorance.As for the interpretation of genesis. Jesuits are much more educated then our friend thor over here. They believe in evolution and take the bible contextually not literally. Which means that when the statement Man holds dominion over earth, what the passage was really trying to say is that man has responsibility over earth. We are responsible in taking care of it and all other things in it.Before thor starts a rant, that is the catholic interpretation. Not my own. I also don't care to source it, because frankly I don't care what thor thinks. Thor has made up his mind on topics without knowledge of them so rather I guess I'll explain it to the rest of the people reading.Basically the statement by the Vatican is hypocritical and irrational. Nobody is going to switch to paganism just because they see a movie Avatar, and Avatar isn't preaching paganism it's preaching for us to take better care of our environment. Which completely falls in line with the interpretation of us being responsible for the earth.Plus if the result of God's work is earth, then so is nature. Which means that nature is the result of God's love. Therefore worshipping nature is worshipping God.Their logic here fails hard.I actually brought it up with a Jesuit in class, he stated his opinion without seeing or even knowing the synopsis of the plot. Which shows they are fairly trained to fall in line with what's being said by the Vatican. However I have met a couple who don't bend over and agree all the time.P.S: Thor because I'm not going to respond to your posts unless they are sourced, don't expect responses. Oh also, nature doesn't do what God wants it to do[1][2]. Otherwise God is a murderer, and I'd much rather go to Hell. Once again I repeat to you read the book "When bad things happen to good people" It was done by a rabbi.1: When bad things happen to good people by Harold s. Kushner2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/weatherwise/factfiles/
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Nobody gives a shit about the vaticans opinion on Avatar. Sorry they just don't. You shouldn't either.Now, this certainlly isn't the "GREATEST MOVIE EVAR!" like people like to make it out to be. however it's defiantly worth going to see.
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I didn't read the whole thread, but I see there was some discussion on the whole "worshipping nature". I didn't get that from the movie at all; they worshipped their god Eywa. However, they respected nature as another child of Eywa.I just find it ridiculous when people throw up these issues; it’s a fictional movie for heaven sake. We can taken it even deeper, who is to say that our god isn't Eywa and that’s how he portrayed himself to this race? I mean, we can go to different thoughts and opinions on this matter, but the fact of the matter is its a movie, its meant for enjoyment and to fascinate the watcher for entertainment. We don't have to take every moment in life so serious, take time to enjoy a little fantasy and wonder, it does the mind and body good.Oh and Damien, I recommend seeing the movie. I personally thought it was brilliant.
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Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself
I didn't read the whole thread, but I see there was some discussion on the whole "worshipping nature". I didn't get that from the movie at all; they worshipped their god Eywa. However, they respected nature as another child of Eywa.
I think, from what I understand, that's a lot of the problem the Vatican has with the film. Making nature another child of Eywa equates nature with man. The Vatican's position (and the Biblical position) is that man is to have dominion over the earth and will be held accountable for his stewardship of the earth. That's what I got from the Vatican's "statements" anyway.Quote:
I just find it ridiculous when people throw up these issues; it's a fictional movie for heaven sake.
That may be true, but Cameron himself has admitted that he is a tree hugger (his words) and that, basically, anyone who disagrees with the views he is trying to put forth in his movie are heartless and have f--ed up views of the world.From an interview in the current Entertainment Weekly mag:
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The movie does seem to sort people into those whose hearts are closed - whose views of the world are f--ed up - and those whose aren't. But then that's me speaking, and I made the movie.
So, clearly, he is trying to push a message with this film and believes that anyone who disagrees with it are cold, heartless idiots. So you can't really blame people for taking issue with him. Not so much for preaching a worldview they disagree with, (shoot, if I didn't watch movies that pushed views I disagree with, I would only have crappy movies to watch) but because he's so arrogant about it.Quote:
We can taken it even deeper, who is to say that our god isn't Eywa and that's how he portrayed himself to this race? I mean, we can go to different thoughts and opinions on this matter, but the fact of the matter is its a movie, its meant for enjoyment and to fascinate the watcher for entertainment.
And to push a filmmaker's worldviews.Quote:
We don't have to take every moment in life so serious, take time to enjoy a little fantasy and wonder, it does the mind and body good.
I agree. I plan on seeing the film this weekend, if it's still playing here. And I'm going to totally piss Cameron off by totally ignoring his silly beliefs and focus on the craft of the film...and how smokin' hot Zoe Saldana is!...and I predict that the entire time I'm watching it, I will be thinking "Yeah, this is definitely worth seeing, but 'Up In the Air' crushes it!"
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How are his beliefs that we need to take better care of the environment silly?Also, it's fairly clear that we DO NOT hold dominion over earth, and that the Vatican's problem with this movie is completely seperate from that. Did you even bother reading the article? The article fears that we will WORSHIP nature, not believe that nature is equal to us.Like I already stated worshipping nature would be worshipping God's work in catholic eyes, therefor it's worship of god not nature over God.Before you once again state that the movie is against catholic views, I go to a catholic school in which no students I know have taken offence to it. Don't generalize the whole catholic religion by saying that the religion takes offence to it. The whole reason I brought it up was to point out that it doesn't offend catholicism and the Vatican was being silly. Not once does the Vatican bring forth the message of dominion over earth, Thor the literalist brought that up. Thor is not a catholic.
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I find all of this rather funny.
Terrestrial nature was here long before us and it will be here long after we're gone. It is as indifferent to us as any microbes that exists thousands of feet down within the rocks or spores that exist thousands of miles up frozen in orbit.
People have it all wrong, it's not about savin' the earth. It's about saving yourself, baby.
I doubt man could snuff out life on earth no matter what he does. Life is pretty resilient but mankind, we're pretty fuckin' fragile. Nature will undoubtedly continue with... or without us.
I wish I could write a little more but I need to get back to my boring ass job.
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Originally Posted By: TechnicalHow are his beliefs that we need to take better care of the environment silly?I don't believe that's what was said. Respecting our environment and taking care of it is a good thing...worshipping it is what is silly.
