I'm back, BUT...

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And, I'll still argue with you when I think you're wrong.
Rad, I'm not intending to single you out here, but I'd like to use this statement you happened to say to illustrate two points useful to all of us.

The first point is that the effective object of this statement is in the second person - the argument is with a specific person. I think that though this is a natural way to think, it's not helpful. It makes the argument into a wrestling match between people, instead of an examination of an idea. It is possible to disagree with an idea, or point out flaws in it, without making it an attack on the person who presented the idea. I would urge us all to try to do that.

The second point is the reason presented for arguing: "when I think you're wrong". Though again it is a natural impulse to express disagreement when we disagree, the latter doesn't logically compel the former. Sometimes there is nothing to be gained by expressing disagreement, and it is better to remain silent. It is a bigger step again from expressing disagreement to arguing - to attempting to convince people that our idea is right and the other is wrong. I would suggest that it goes beyond the purpose of this board to attempt to do that in matters of religion. I think we need to accept that our beliefs differ and will continue to differ.

Originally Posted By: A.W.

Don't let certain members put you down for what you believe in. We should all respect everyones opinions and beliefs as we speak on the threads. Christianity, Jesus and God aren't the bad guys, and it's too bad that some will never see the good in Christianity. Some think that we are trying to force converting them, but it's not like that at all. We have done our best to respect the ones who don't believe, and I think it's time that we get the same amount of respect from them as well.

You say this to the guy who said, "Why can't atheists just believe in God? There's no harm in it and you can't go wrong especially when you die." Completely disrespectful to all of the Atheists and Agnostics on the forums. It seems that some people, like yourself, will never see the good in Atheists.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousIt seems that some people, like yourself, will never see the good in Atheists. How do you know what is good and what is evil if there is no God? Same goes for knowing the difference between moral and immoral. Once again, for probably the 5th time, I TOLD YOU THAT IT WAS A FLAWED ARGUMENT IN THE ORIGINAL POST.

I'm talking about the decision to help someone in need or go out of your way to help someone in need. Say you're riding your bike and you see an elderly couple carrying heavy bags in each hand. Your "good" instinct would tell you to get off your bike and offer to carry the bags for them. Your "evil" instinct would tell you to ride right past them and glance at them and keep riding. Say some kid falls in the street and gets really hurt. Your "good" instinct would be to help him and call 911 if it's really bad. Your "evil" instinct would be to walk right by him and maybe even laugh. Now what's guiding you inside to tell you how to act?

I thought this article was pretty interesting.

I've read through most of the website and wow. You all should check it out.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheists_theists_morality.html

Welcome back!! We had that conversation.. we both know how it is.

well I thought that might be a possibility. I'll probably research more articles.

I was just thinking, Rad. Haven't you noticed how disrespectful children are to their parents in this generation. Well it just so happens that they've removed creation from schools not too long ago.

Look at kids from the 18th and 19th century. If you said one wrong word to your parents they were beaten with a stick. Honor thy parents!

"Until the late 19th century, creation was taught in nearly all schools in the United States..." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education

Now is it any coincidence that once they stopped teaching creation and the rules God gave us, that all the children have become disobedient and such?

I was just thinking, Rad. Haven't you noticed how disrespectful children are to their parents in this generation. Well it just so happens that they've removed creation from schools not too long ago. Look at kids from the 18th and 19th century. If you said one wrong word to your parents they were beaten with a stick. Honor thy parents! "Until the late 19th century, creation was taught in nearly all schools in the United States..." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_educationNow is it any coincidence that once they stopped teaching creation and the rules God gave us, that all the children have become disobedient and such?

Well would someone please explain to me what the fuck Nanny 911 is?That show is a joke. If you're a grown man and you can't control an 8 year old boy you're probably the biggest pansy I know. I've even noticed kids who have 2 parents at home, they're rich, a brother and a sister, be completely disrespectful to their parents when they don't get what they want.

woo...don't I feel popular today. Seems I am misunderstood more often than understood :P

Originally Posted By: Virtual_Star

That's fine, but you still owe Animefreak an apology if he comes and sees what you started.

Well, thank you, but it makes no difference to me.

Cooldawg...well, what she said. Think next time.

by the way, HCL, I do apologize for implying you were a troll. I saw that that post was your first, I thought you may have just joined to troll, so that's why I said that.

I guess you make a good point. I forget where it is but they showed a graph from the year I think 1967 or 1964 I'm not sure. It was the year they removed Creation from this school system and they showed stiff increases from that year on in pregnancy, abortion, crime, etc. I really think it's because some kids will never pick up a Bible unless they learn it in school, so they never learn about God and the 10 commandments. I'm sending my kids to private baptist schools. That is, if the world doesn't end before I get a chance

Quote: it didn’t turn out the way it planned. you can’t plan on anything on here cuz you can;t control what others think or say. that's something you have to understand before getting into a hot topic (like religion) or starting one. it's one of the many reasons i was stressing on making a post a while back. i knew that if i was called da troll or liar it would hurt my feelings, i knew if people started asking questions it get to me, i knew if flame war started i wouldn't be able to handle it. all i could do is HOPE people took it the right way and not the wrong way. whenever you post anything you just have to be prepared for the worst. lots of people on here are pretty blunt and aren’t scared of holding back what they think / believe. it's kinda like if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen...... OR don't start the fire. On here it seems every debate ends with fire and flames. People get mad when they can’t make others see their way and those others get angry back for the same reason. People get mad when they want to hear an answer but get completely different one. Religion, politics, male rape, racism… there all strong topics and there are people that feel more strongly about those issues than other people do. I’m not trying to jump down your back… I’m just saying topics like proof God exists or Males can’t be raped are heated topics. For every person that says this is proof why it is there is a person that can and will say this is proof your wrong and I’m right. i think what would help alot in making topics liek about religian is the orginal poster really think about if they can take it when the readers / replyers say things that are not what they want to hear.  Quote:I'll definitely apologize to him when he gets on if he even reads this topic. maybe Pm him instead of waiting on him to find it. when you know your wrong (not just saying you..but anyone) you should be the first to step and say it. not let who it happend too come to you........they might not ever do that.

Yeah I get what your saying. Thanks.

i'm going to be a smart ass here and say.....God loves both christians and Atheists. God loves murders and abusers... He hates the sin but loves the person. Christians sin...and he hates their sins too. so........ anyone get anything out of this lession?!oh yea.. that's not a question for you to reply to..but to think about.  Quote:I'm talking about the decision to help someone in need or go out of your way to help someone in need. Say you're riding your bike and you see an elderly couple carrying heavy bags in each hand. Your "good" instinct would tell you to get off your bike and offer to carry the bags for them. Your "evil" instinct would tell you to ride right past them and glance at them and keep riding. Say some kid falls in the street and gets really hurt. Your "good" instinct would be to help him and call 911 if it's really bad. Your "evil" instinct would be to walk right by him and maybe even laugh. Now what's guiding you inside to tell you how to act? my opinion on that whole post is....it's not about God period. It's about the person, who they are as a person and how they were broght up. maybe it's just me cuz my parents drilled into me good manners.

Originally Posted By: cooldawg2Once again, for probably the 5th time, I TOLD YOU THAT IT WAS A FLAWED ARGUMENT IN THE ORIGINAL POST. If you knew that, then why say it? What was the point? Didn't you know you were going to throw more fuel to the fire than necessary?

Originally Posted By: cooldawg2

How do you know what is good and what is evil if there is no God?

Same goes for knowing the difference between moral and immoral.

yeah, this is really one of those lines of thought that troubles me. It suggests that athiests simply can't be good or evil ever and altruism is an illusion.
Why can't I be good and helpful without the promise of reward or the threat of punishment?
why can't you?

I feel that during the course of my day, if I can take an extra step to save someone else two, I'll do it. It can be as simple as puting your shopping cart back instead of leaving it in the parking spot next to yours.
Then we can take our used stuff to Goodwill instead of to the dump.

oh, this is easy, everyone join in!

drop some spare change in that beggars cup
write a cheque to the red cross when there's a disaster in a poor country

hey, we're getting good at this

give blood
help a lost kid
change a tire for that poor lady stuck on the highway

wow, who needs a "maybe/maybe not heaven" for after we die when we can live our lives in heaven on earth? (until some religeous zellot fucks it up that is)

Creationism was removed from public school curriculum a long time ago in the U.S. Are you talking about a particular place? I don't understand the link between creationism and morality anyway. Can you explain?Most of Western Europe is pretty secular, yet by your measure (helping other people), the people there are more moral than we are. They don't let each other die in the street. They'll give everyone medical care, even if they have no money. They murder each other far less. They have no death penalty. The send far more money (per person) to people in need around the world.It appears that there is something that causes people to be moral that goes beyond fear of retribution by a divine being. A lot of animals help each other. You're not suggesting that they've studied creationism, or believe in God, are you? What motivates a nursing cat to adopt and feed an orphan kitten?You wonder, what makes you "moral" (or do you mean "ethical"?) if you have no religious belief. You are not really asking, though. You are actually saying it's not possible. But if you step back and take a look, you'll see that irreligious places are as moral as, or less moral than, the United States.------------------------By the way, I'm not down with the relationship advice you gave to that guy, telling him that women are impossible to understand, so forget about trying; and that he has to play the game of getting another girlfriend to trick the first one into being jealous. That could destroy the possibility of any further relationship with the first one. I hope lying is not part of your ethic, but in any case, maybe you sho8uld log more relationship experience, or actually learn about the subject, before dispensing advice.

Quote:Haven't you noticed how disrespectful children are to their parents in this generation. tha thas nothing to do with God either. That has all to do with the parents. A parent that don;t allow their children to be disrespectful wont have a problum with them disrepecting them. It's not up to a school or daycare or other people (churches) to raise your kids..it's up to their parent or gardens. i dk waht people say..that's what i belive. You think i learned my manners from school? hell no all i got from school is if they liked you or were scared of you you could do anything you wanted too. If you wanted to eat you better eat it fast before the bullies came. in nanny 911 (haha i just saw that camertial haha) the nanny is broght in to TEACH the parents what to do with their kids. i would put money on it after she leaves the parents go back to what they always did and so do the kids.rich people alwasy get blaimed for this type of thing.... i've seen some damb assd spoiled bratrs that their parents are up to their ears in dept just to keep them in the newist car or own a better horse.

Originally Posted By: Virtual_StarIf you knew that, then why say it? What was the point? Didn't you know you were going to throw more fuel to the fire than necessary? I didn't really have a reason I just put it there to see what the responses were onto why or why not to do that. And albeitmyself gave a good response to it. Although a lot of you forgot to take notice that I said it was flawed.