Gay activists march in Calif. ahead of showdown

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Quote:SAN FRANCISCO – Same-sex marriage advocates are pinning their hopes on California's highest court as it prepares to hear arguments on a trio of lawsuits seeking to overturn the state's voter-approved ban on gay unions.Thursday's three-hour hearing was expected to draw an audience much larger than the California Supreme Court's courtroom can accommodate. Gay rights groups rented out a nearby auditorium and a big screen television for the outdoor plaza where a group of clergy scheduled a pre-argument prayer service."It's important to show the Supreme Court justices history is on our side," said Paul Sousa, 22, of Boston, who flew to San Francisco on Wednesday and planned to camp out by the courthouse overnight to be closer to the action. "Courts often can be a couple steps ahead of the curve on civil rights issues. We just have to help them get there."The ballot initiative, which passed with 52 percent of the vote in November, changed the California Constitution to trump last year's 4-3 Supreme Court decision that held that denying same-sex couples the right to wed was an unconstitutional civil rights violation.On Wednesday night, several thousand people marched from San Francisco's pro-gay Castro District to City Hall both to demonstrate public support for invalidating Proposition 8 and as an outlet for their anxiety. The Supreme Court's seven justices have 90 days after the oral arguments in which to issue a ruling."This is really about what the rest of the world sees — the rest of the world seeing there are huge numbers of people this issue touches," said Cherie Tony, 52, of San Francisco, who was among the crowd carrying candles and chanting "What do we want? Equal rights! When we do we want it? Now!"Similar vigils were held in Los Angeles, other California cities, and as far away as New York. At the Los Angeles event, gay and lesbian couples decked out in wedding finery participated in a public "recommitment" ceremony.Todd Barrett said he and his partner Joe Witmore, who were married during the 4 1/2-month window last year when same-sex couples could wed in California, brought their 5-year-old daughter to show that Proposition 8's passage affected families."I don't know how I would explain to her that Daddy and Pappa aren't married anymore," Barrett said.The coalition of religious and conservative groups that sponsored the ballot initiative organized a statewide day of prayer last Sunday to rally support for upholding the measure and encouraged supporters to peacefully join same-sex marriage advocates outside the Supreme Court on Thursday."Our only purpose is to remind the media, Californians and Americans everywhere that support for traditional marriage is the majority position in the state," Ron Prentice, chairman of the ProtectMarriage coalition, said in a statement. "We won the Prop 8 election. The constitution has been amended. The will of the people should now prevail."Gay rights groups, couples and more than a dozen local governments are urging the court to overturn the measure on the grounds that it was put before voters improperly, or at least prematurely. Under state law, the Legislature must approve significant constitutional changes before they can go on the ballot.Attorney General Jerry Brown has taken the unusual step of refusing to defend the gay marriage ban in court. His office argues that because the court has already recognized marriage as a fundamental right and gays as a minority group deserving of judicial protection, outlawing same-sex marriage is a constitutional breach.Both Brown and the parties behind the lawsuits also claim that the ballot measure abrogates the court's role as the ultimate guardian of civil rights and if allowed to stand would leave other groups vulnerable to having their liberties curtailed.The Supreme Court has asked the attorney general and lawyers for the couples, local governments and Proposition 8's sponsors to limit their arguments to three specific questions:• Is Proposition 8 invalid because it constitutes a revision of, rather than an amendment to, the California Constitution?• Does Proposition 8 violate the separation of powers doctrine under the California Constitution?• If Proposition 8 is not unconstitutional, what is its effect, if any, on the marriages of same-sex couples performed before the adoption of Proposition 8? Proposition 8's sponsors are being represented in court by former Pepperdine law school dean Kenneth Starr, who investigated President Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal. He argues that the ballot initiative was approved correctly and that it would be a miscarriage of justice for the court to overturn the results of a fair election. It's a pretty exciting process but overly nervous on the outcome. I really hope Calif. does the right thing and support equal rights. fingers crossed

While my personal view is in support of gay marriage rights, I'm a bit concerned about the idea of ignoring the result of a question put to the people because one doesn't like the answer.Also, this suit is supposed to be being decided on principles of law, but if demonstrations could potentially sway the result, it isn't.

When people publish maps and put them out on the web with the names and locations of those who oppose their agenda, they've gone too far. That's harassment, and it's not part of the democratic process. In fact, it's a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. I'd have more sympathy for their plight if they'd start by policing their own.

Thor its public knowledge and records. Anyone is allowed to see who funding what campaign etc. And you don’t think the same thing was done to the people who were against Prop 8? Well let me tell you, you are wrong… they just aren’t bitching about it like those who supported hate into the California state Constitution. And if you think that’s truly harassment try living as a homosexual for a few days, than talk to me about harassment… you have absolutely no idea. Not to mention all the inequalities and having to hide who you are because of ignorant bigoted people who cannot mind their own business. But I digress. Though I would normally be against such a process of over turning something the majority voted for, I think this process is warranted for a few different reasons. One major reason is its adding hate and discrimination into the state constitution. I don’t feel there is any room in any constitution for hate and discrimination. Secondly that Supreme Court ruled over four months prior that it was an unconstitutional civil rights violation to not allow homosexuals to marry. Within that 4 ½ month period 18,000 homosexuals married. Are we to now tell those 18,000 people “Sorry we changed our mind, your marriage is invalid”? I personally don’t think so, could you imagine having something so precious and than having it stripped away from you? It’s wrong… hell beyond wrong!I hope the Supreme Court sees the injustice and over turns Prop Hate! Obviously this is more personal than it would be for many other people, I’m just tired of people thinking we choose to be gay, and that we need to take the consequences of our choice. We did not choose to be gay, who would ever choose a life of hate and discrimination? People need to open their eyes and hearts and stop being ignorant to the topic.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfI hope the Supreme Court sees the injustice and over turns Prop Hate! Obviously this is more personal than it would be for many other people, I’m just tired of people thinking we choose to be gay, and that we need to take the consequences of our choice. We did not choose to be gay, who would ever choose a life of hate and discrimination? People need to open their eyes and hearts and stop being ignorant to the topic. None of us can choose how we are born...but whether some of us have a choice as to who we sleep with (gender-wise) or not is something that will forever remain to be seen. I can say I do not have a choice and be believed...but then again, I don't have an agenda to push. Gays, on the other hand, do. But whether or not anybody has that choice as to who they sleep with, they most certainly do have a choice as to their behavior.I believe one crux of the issue is that, because a homosexual marriage is a contradiction in terms, all homosexual sex is adultry at least...which has to rub any so-called gay Christians to no end. But that's a path they chose to take (a homosexual lifestyle)...just as they chose to reveal to the world what they do behind closed doors. Gays who keep that little area of their lives private (like most of the rest of us do) don't have the discrimination problems you speak of. By seeking validation from the world, you open yourself up to 90% of the trouble you have...then have the audacity to blame everyone else for your choice! How are non-gays expected to mind their own business when gays choose to shove their business in everybodies face. Wise up.As for the web map, it's not the fact of the matter...it's the intent. And you know it...so if you're going to address the issue, stop skirting it and address it. If what somebody else did was wrong (as you claim...so far without any proof), does that make it OK for you to do something wrong, too? You know the answer.I also read something about the court proceedings last night, and it seems the judges aren't considering nullifying the 18,000 or so past marriages that have already occured...so I think you can put that issue to rest.

Thor, there is a part of me that really wants to tell you where to shove it... well I guess maybe I just did. But intellectually I know you are just ignorant about this topic and are spouting at the mouth without knowing first hand of this topic. But because I'm bored at work I want to pick at your post a little.>>But whether or not anybody has that choice as to who they sleep with, they most certainly do have a choice as to their behavior.Yes we all have control over our behavior, but being gay is NOT a behavior.. its sexuality. Just as your sexuality is straight, mine is gay. I never chose to be gay, again no one in their right mind would choose a life of discrimination and hate.>>all homosexual sex is adultry at least...which has to rub any so-called gay Christians to no end.OMG! Do you even know what the definition of adultery is? Let me share it with you…Adultery is the voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and another person who is not his or her spouse.What the hell does this have to do with homosexuality?? This is the biggest issue I have with Christians like yoursef making up new definitions to the bible and other text. It makes you and others who believe that homosexual sex has anything to do with adultry foolish! It’s a sad attempt to try and find where homosexuality goes against the 10 Commendments.. give it up, it doesn’t!!>>But that's a path they chose to take (a homosexual lifestyle)Again neither I nor any other gay person chose to be gay. Tell me, when did you choose to be straight since apparently we can choose, on a whim, our sexuality? What morning did you wake up and go “Gee golly! I think I’m going to be straight! Yes indeedy do!” And you say I need to Wise Up? >>just as they chose to reveal to the world what they do behind closed doorsWhy should be have to live a lie and hide? What makes you better than I? What makes me less of a human being than you… because your straight you get more privileges as a human being? Your sir, are intolerant.>>Gays who keep that little area of their lives private (like most of the rest of us do) don't have the discrimination problems you speak of.And you know this first hand how?? Let me tell you Thor, I keep my private life to myself, not because I’m gay and scared, but because it’s MY PRIVATE LIFE. I don’t have rainbow stickers on my car, or a pride flag waving on my front porch. But I still get discriminated again. But just because I’m a private person doesn’t mean I am going to lie to someone if they ask I am gay or defend myself or someone else if they are being discriminated against. I have nothing to be ashamed of and stating that we should hide lets me know that you think I should be ashamed… well I’m not. I have more pride in myself than to put myself down for something I did not choose.>>By seeking validation from the world, you open yourself up to 90% of the trouble you have...then have the audacity to blame everyone else for your choice!Again Its not a choice, I think the sooner you understand that and get that through your thick bigoted skull the quicker you might actually see where I am coming from. I don’t blame anyone for me being gay except the genetics themselves.I don’t need validation from anyone, not from you, the church, or the pope himself. What I desire is equality, I pay equal taxes as the straight man beside me and I expect equal treatment. >>How are non-gays expected to mind their own business when gays choose to shove their business in everybodies face. Wise up.If we stand on the sidelines twiddling our thumbs than nothing will progress. Just as the African Americans marched and rallied to get their equal rights, so will we. Nothing changes without pushing it. So, tired of us “shoving our business” in your face, than give us equal rights… until than get used to it because we’re not going away.>>(as you claim...so far without any proof),ROFL! Are you seriously?? Thor you are the MASTER at spouting off at the mouth and NEVER showing proof… and you sir are also the master at skirting around topics. You only answer the questions you want and everything else you ignore. I’m not even sure why you even put yourself into these positions because you only make yourself look foolish.>>it seems the judges aren't considering nullifying the 18,000 or so past marriages that have already occured...so I think you can put that issue to rest.I also heard the same thing… that’s great to hear. But now you have another issue on your hands, you allowed gay marriage but not going to deny the same right to other people of the same population. Do you think say African Americans would have stood by if they would have allowed African American’s to marry... than take it away? Nope, nor will we.Last I checked in those 4 ½ months, the earth didn’t stop moving… the word certainly didn’t come to and end… louses didn’t swarm the cities… first bore sons were killed… life went on as normal. Only people making a scene and issue about it are ignorant people like you.You talk about us shoving our business in everyone’s faces… have you ever though that if people just minded their own business than this wouldn’t even be an issue. What I do in my bedroom is no ones business, but by denying basically equal rights is basically ASKING me what I do behind closed doors. Who I love, and who I marry is MY concern NOT yours. Who I have on my insurance is MY concern NOT yours. My life does NOT directly affect yours, but you are making your beliefs DIRECTLY affect mine.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfOMG! Do you even know what the definition of adultery is? Let me share it with you…Adultery is the voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and another person who is not his or her spouse.You're right...I should have said fornication. Quote:>>By seeking validation from the world, you open yourself up to 90% of the trouble you have...then have the audacity to blame everyone else for your choice!Again Its not a choice, I think the sooner you understand that and get that through your thick bigoted skull the quicker you might actually see where I am coming from. I don’t blame anyone for me being gay except the genetics themselves.Once again, your behavior (sexual activity) IS a choice. Just because I'm hetero doesn't mean I MUST go out and have sex with women. Get it? But that's not even what I was referring to. Try taking your emotional blinders off for once and read what is actually written. I was speaking of the choice to seek validation by sharing what should be your private life with the world by proclaiming your homosexuality. I'm not saying discrimination or harassment should be the result for you, but to realistically expect any other kind of reaction is...well...just plain ignorant of the reality of the world we live in. Perhaps someday it will be better...but right now it isn't. And folks who expect something else and cry when they don't get it are out of touch with reality. Quote:I don’t need validation from anyone, not from you, the church, or the pope himself. What I desire is equality, I pay equal taxes as the straight man beside me and I expect equal treatment. If you'd keep your private life private, you'd have no problems there. You didn't. Why? I could guess (as I already have, concerning validation), but one thing is for sure...it isn't for the reasons you just stated.I wish homosexuals minded their own business by keeping it their own business...they did not. It's too late now...they are reaping what they have sewn. The problem is that now we're all suffering for homosexual indescretions, so to speak. If you would only look at this from a selfless point of view instead of a selfish one, you'd see it...but you never will. Your points of view are so self-contradictory and emotionally (not logically) based that no amount of logic or common sense is going to make a dent in your opinion over this issue. With that, I'm outta this thread.

Quote: With that, I'm outta this threadDamn good thing because YOU are the one outta touch with reality. Save yourself the trouble and stay outta threads like this from the start.

"Your points of view are so self-contradictory"Pot-kettle-black>>>"If you'd keep your private life private, you'd have no problems there."So you have no problems with homosexuals as long as they don't kiss, hold hands or do anything that might lead on to believe they're gay in public. As long as they keep separate residences, conform to your idea of manliness and sneak around and have their relationships in complete isolation there okay with you.>>>"I'm not saying discrimination or harassment should be the result for you, but to realistically expect any other kind of reaction is...well...just plain ignorant of the reality of the world we live in. Perhaps someday it will be better...but right now it isn't."And you think that's going to change by sitting quietly by to a point that no one even knows you exist. Which is what you said homosexuals should be doing anyway. Given that how could it ever change.

OK...one more post just to answer Scotty. Quote:>>>"If you'd keep your private life private, you'd have no problems there."So you have no problems with homosexuals as long as they don't kiss, hold hands or do anything that might lead on to believe they're gay in public. Bingo. Quote:As long as they keep separate residences, conform to your idea of manliness and sneak around and have their relationships in complete isolation there okay with you.Now you're taking it further than I intended and would be necessary.We're talking about social norms here. Until public view changes more, pushing it in their faces will not get anybody to accept things. It just makes them angry. Leaving your head in the clouds about this little fact has caused exactly the knee-jerk reaction that got the folks opposed to gay marriage to the polls. Congratulations. Quote:>>>"I'm not saying discrimination or harassment should be the result for you, but to realistically expect any other kind of reaction is...well...just plain ignorant of the reality of the world we live in. Perhaps someday it will be better...but right now it isn't."And you think that's going to change by sitting quietly by to a point that no one even knows you exist. Which is what you said homosexuals should be doing anyway. Given that how could it ever change. As I said, the arrogant way homosexuals are going about it is not done out of any intelligent desire for folks to accept them. All it does is make them angry for exactly the same reason some homosexuals admit to being angry: Different beliefs and lifestyles are not respected. If homosexuals wish to be accepted, they're going to have to be less abrasive about it and learn to respect the opinions of folks like me (who don't believe in homosexual marriage). If they can't do that, it's going to be a long, long road for them to find what they're really looking for...and it'll involve some compromises that they, apparently, are unwilling to make. In the meantime, all they're causing is a lot of hate and discontent on both sides of the issue. That's the reality...take it or leave it. Thankyouandgoodnight.

Homosexuality has existed for hundreds--no--thousands of years........when religions started spurting around, the topic of homosexuality sadly became a taboo.Teenage boys were preferred much more than the most beautiful women!!!Anyway what I want to say is Homosexuals should have equal rights, be free to do as they please just as Heterosexuals have freedom..........I prefer equality though I am not a homosexual. Homosexuals also have feelings, emotions and are as human as Heterosexuals are. I dont care if its genetics or its a choice that drives their sexuality........they need to be treated as normal and not frowned upon.Heterosexuals dont keep their business behind closed doors.......they announce to everyone about their partner, attend parties with their partner and have fun, get married with many people in attendance who are all smiling and clapping showering them with well wishes and gifts!!!........so why should Homosexuals keep their business behind closed doors? Why should they be frowned upon just cos they have a same sex partner?Its emotionally very disturbing to be treated differently.........logic cannot be applied to one's mentality or to matters regarding relationships, sexuality.......they are not an equation or a scientific theory.......logic has its limits.If the world has to change somebody has to voice their concerns and ask for their rights.........otherwise the world's system may never change. It takes more than a single person to change things and a lot of support is needed as well.

Quote: When people publish maps and put them out on the web with the names and locations of those who oppose their agenda, they've gone too faryep, I agreepersicuting an idividual for his belief is wrong. When a group openly supports a movement, that's when it becomes public property. The Mormans (polygamists) finacialy supported Prop 8 in Caliapperently I have to ask this agin... when you speak of the "traditional definition of marriage", which tradition are you refering to?

Originally Posted By: unsupervised

Quote:

When people publish maps and put them out on the web with the names and locations of those who oppose their agenda, they've gone too far
yep, I agree
persicuting an idividual for his belief is wrong. When a group openly supports a movement, that's when it becomes public property. The Mormans (polygamists) finacialy supported Prop 8 in Cali
apperently I have to ask this agin... when you speak of the "traditional definition of marriage", which tradition are you refering to?

LOL! Do you really expect me not to call you on this untruth? No...I didn't say lie. That would require you to know what you're talking about. The vast majority of Mormons are not polygamists...there might be a few hiding up in the forests somewhere, but I can guarantee they're not the ones making contributions to any political cause. And I wish we were talking about only groups here...but the map in question shows individuals, home addresses and places of business. Again, you're ill-informed...or perhaps just selective in the way you dispense your "information". In the case of the latter, I would offer my congratulations on a beautiful display of a liberals regard for the truth.

Since you decided to step your foot back into the discussion (Not like I was really expecting you not to) I’ll respond to a few more of your close-minded “points”.>>>You're right...I should have said fornication.So we should just never have sex? Or is it the matter we shouldn’t have sex until married, which is a real catch-22 for us since people like you refuse to give us marriage. But let me ask you, how many straight people do you think really wait until marriage? Chances are you yourself didn’t wait until marriage to have sex. (And please save me the “oh I’m a good Christian, I waited for marriage” act…)>>>Once again, your behavior (sexual activity) IS a choice.Agreed, my choosing to make love to my partner is my choice. I’m sorry but I don’t get your point considering the majority of heterosexuals decide to have premarital sex. Once you can get all heterosexuals to follow this Christian Guideline, than come talk to me.>>>I was speaking of the choice to seek validation by sharing what should be your private life with the world by proclaiming your homosexuality.And again you are missing the point. No one is seeking validation. I know I personally can give a flying pigs ass what you think about me. What I am seeking is equality. Don’t like the fact I’m gay? Okay than don’t like it… but don’t deny me civil liberties because of your beliefs. Again I repeat… My life does NOT directly affect yours, but you are making your beliefs DIRECTLY affect mine.>>>I'm not saying discrimination or harassment should be the result for you, but to realistically expect any other kind of reaction is...well...just plain ignorant of the reality of the world we live in. Perhaps someday it will be better...but right now it isn't. And folks who expect something else and cry when they don't get it are out of touch with reality.LoL… wait I’m out of touch with reality by asking for tolerance? It’s funny because I bet the same things were said to African Americans when they had their movement. It’s not unrealistic to expect equality and tolerance. I think you are out of touch with reality thinking by locking ourselves back in the closet is going to change things, that’s just ridiculous! We have to put ourselves out there and get people realize we are human beings with feelings and just wanted equal treatment under the law. We have to fight for our rights just like any other minority.>>>If you'd keep your private life private, you'd have no problems there. You didn't. Why? I could guess (as I already have, concerning validation), but one thing is for sure...it isn't for the reasons you just stated.ROFL… so NOW you are telling me what I want and how I feel. Get this through your brain Thor, our movement has nothing to do with validation… last thing I truly care about is what you think about me. What I care about is equality. Trust me, last thing we are about is your opinion about us… believe that!>>>I wish homosexuals minded their own business by keeping it their own business...they did not. It's too late now...they are reaping what they have sewn. The problem is that now we're all suffering for homosexual indescretions, so to speak. If you would only look at this from a selfless point of view instead of a selfish one, you'd see it...but you never will. Your points of view are so self-contradictory and emotionally (not logically) based that no amount of logic or common sense is going to make a dent in your opinion over this issue.Lol we should mind our own business?? Getting married to the person we love IS our business. Maybe YOU need to mind your own business and let us live our lives.Its funny you keep talking about us being selfish. How is wanting to marry the person we love selfish? It baffles me Thor than you can be so intolerant, and call yourself a Christian. I know some people believe a definition for Christians is “intolerant”. But I don’t. I often wonder if Jesus walked the Earth today how he would feel about his fellow man treating their brothers and sisters the way you have? I have a strong feeling he would be beyond disgusted. And yes maybe with you I will never make a dent in this topic, but I hope others reading this topic, that it will help to open their eyes a little more. We are not horrible people, we are not some Satan spawn; we are human beings. We just want equal treatment, not special treatment… equal treatment. Is that really so much to ask for? If you strip away your prejudice bigoted blinders, is that really so much to ask for?? I don’t.I think the Media has really played into how people few homosexuals. When they show us on TV from Rallies or Pride events they only show the extremes, they never show the majority of the homosexual population. Instead they show the female impersonators, the guys all stressed in leather with the assless chaps. It’s never the two normal people just holding hands wearing jeans and a t-shirt. I strongly belief the media has a lot of responsibly on how the public views us.Some things you said to Scotty:>>>Until public view changes more, pushing it in their faces will not get anybody to accept things.You are wrong, it how things get changed. Making people aware of whom we are and what we are about is what will get things changed. Acting like we don’t exist does absolutely nothing. Expecting us to just lock ourselves in the closet just shows your intolerance and unwillingness to address your own prejudices. >>>Leaving your head in the clouds about this little fact has caused exactly the knee-jerk reaction that got the folks opposed to gay marriage to the polls.Again I think you are wrong. By bringing this to the front page to peoples has actually increased the support of gay marriage. The more people understand that we just want equality and not to mention we are just as normal as any straight person, the more support we gain. Yes we lost against Prop 8… but only by 4%. I think that speaks for itself.>>>If homosexuals wish to be accepted, they're going to have to be less abrasive about it and learn to respect the opinions of folks like me (who don't believe in homosexual marriage).And who is to say we don’t respect it? I respect your opinion Thor, even though I don’t agree with it. And I think that’s the biggest point, you can respect a persons opinions without agreeing with it. But that doesn’t mean I am not going to fight for what I feel is right.>>>and it'll involve some compromises that they, apparently, are unwilling to make.And I think you are very wrong. People like you haven’t even given us a choice to compromise. There are many people like myself who would be just find with Civil Unions as long as it gave the same exact benefits as marriage. To me marriage is just a word, not a definition. If people truly wanted this issue to be over they could give us Civil Unions and this who entire debate could be over. But people like you, don’t even want to give us that. So we continue to fight.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfAnd I think you are very wrong. People like you haven’t even given us a choice to compromise. I think you're wrong. I think the problem is that a civil union is not what the activists have been pushing for. I think if they did, they might have even succeeded by now. And, as I've said before, I don't have any problem with said civil union. Quote:To me marriage is just a word, not a definition. For me it's a definition.

Quote: I think you're wrong. I think the problem is that a civil union is not what the activists have been pushing for. I think if they did, they might have even succeeded by now. And, as I've said before, I don't have any problem with said civil union.But who is throwing in on the table? No one, not one person has offered us Civil uinions. It has been brought up many different times in many different debates through the country, but still not one person has given us the chance on whether we would accept it or not. I have a very strong feeling that if the governement would offer us Civil Unions with the EXACT benefits of marriage, the majority of homosexuals would take it.I know I would take Civil Union... and I would still have my ceremony in the church. Because to me marriage is just a word.. its whats behind marriage that makes the definition.

No one, not one person has offered us Civil uinions. Isn't it the duty of the gay activists to push/ask for it? I'm sure CA's Prop 8 came from the gay lobby. Why did they not put forth "Civil Union" instead of "Marriage"?

Originally Posted By: sdp No one, not one person has offered us Civil uinions. Isn't it the duty of the gay activists to push/ask for it? I'm sure CA's Prop 8 came from the gay lobby. Why did they not put forth "Civil Union" instead of "Marriage"? It has been brought up many different times from both sides, and everytime it gets swept under the rug. And not to mention for the last 8 years we've had the President of the Bigot Club running the country so we knew nothing was going to get passed with him in office. I have high hopes that Obama will at least give us Civil Unions since he address that multiple times when he was campaigning. fingers crossed(Not part really address to you sdp )But I think that's what most people seem to miss, is that all we are asking for is equality. The majority of us homosexuals could care less if we got the word marriage, all we are asking for is protection under the law which includes "marriage" (Civil Unions) and also employment protect so people cannot be terminated from their jobs, military etc for simply being gay. I will also agree a work place and the like has no place for sexuality period, so it shouldn't be an issue... but I think we all know better. Eventually talk happen, or so and so sees this and that person holding hands etc.Now there are those who feel we should not have to accept Civil Unions, and they have their points too. I personally just don't feel we need to go that far as I have stated before Marriage is just a word, not the definition. I feel if the governement is going to give me civil unions with all the protections that come with it, than I am a happy boy! But until the option is offered to us, we are going to fight for equality where and how we can.

One thing: Judge not lest ye be judged. Ntro: I wish you and yours all the luck in the world. Like it's a big deal, anyway...

Originally Posted By: LuvMyCatsOne thing: Judge not lest ye be judged. Since you seem to think it applies here (otherwise why would you post it), perhaps you'd care to explain the complete meaning of that passage? I'll give you fair warning first that most luke-warm "a la carte" Christians get it wrong.