Originally Posted By: damienOf course it's not permanent. God wants us to accept Him. At whatever point it happens.What about denying the Holy Spirit, the act that the Bible defines as the one unforgivable sin. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. - Mark 3:29 Originally Posted By: damien Quote:What about people from other religions who openly say that your God is a false one. Will they suffer the eternal separation or do you believe, as Eddie does, that all of the different religions are really worshipping the same God but in a different manifestation, therefore they are not technically denying God but are simply unaware of his various forms? If they deny that Jesus Christ is the son of God and refuse to accept him, they are without hope. So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God?
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Do you fear Hell?
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The context of the unforgivable sin suggests that it means believing ultimate good to be evil. It could be said that this leaves no room for God at all. But I don't know that anyone really understands the unforgivable sin.
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So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God?
I have a lot of difficulty with that myself. For a start, the great majority of those of other religions or none are not really aware of the Christian Gospel. They nearly all know that Christianity exists, but have little knowledge of what it teaches.Although many strict Protestants believe that to be saved one must die a full Christian, this leaves a very large number of people without hope of salvation, which seems to me inconsistent with 1 Tim 2:3-4, where God is described as wanting all to be saved.
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Romans 1 suggests that God has revealed himself to all men, so that none are without excuse. That's why I mentioned fictional Willy Nubu earlier. Even those in the world (and there are many)who have never heard of Jesus or the "Christian gospel" have a concept of God in whatever way He has revealed Himself to them. So, obviously, they can't be held responsible for how they do or don't respond to a gospel they've never heard. But they do know God on some level, and will be held accountable for whether or not they glorified Him.
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So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God?
If they have a "religious belief" that causes them to deny that Jesus is the son of God then, yes, they won't spend eternity with him. I believe that's what the Bible teaches.
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Originally Posted By: IneligibleThe context of the unforgivable sin suggests that it means believing ultimate good to be evil.So by this interpretation, someone who does not believe in God or the trinity cannot commit the unforgivable sin as they are denying the existence of such a being which negates the possibility of believing it to be evil. Right? Originally Posted By: Ineligible Quote:So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God?I have a lot of difficulty with that myself. For a start, the great majority of those of other religions or none are not really aware of the Christian Gospel. They nearly all know that Christianity exists, but have little knowledge of what it teaches.Although many strict Protestants believe that to be saved one must die a full Christian, this leaves a very large number of people without hope of salvation, which seems to me inconsistent with 1 Tim 2:3-4, where God is described as wanting all to be saved. What is a full Christian?
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Originally Posted By: damienRomans 1 suggests that God has revealed himself to all men, so that none are without excuse. That's why I mentioned fictional Willy Nubu earlier. Even those in the world (and there are many)who have never heard of Jesus or the "Christian gospel" have a concept of God in whatever way He has revealed Himself to them. So, obviously, they can't be held responsible for how they do or don't respond to a gospel they've never heard. But they do know God on some level, and will be held accountable for whether or not they glorified Him.If they are judged on whether they glorified God, then what point is there in accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour? If you know about Jesus then you need to accept him to get into Heaven, its an extra criteria that isn't required of others. If I was a Christian and actually believed this, I would be campaigning to stop missionaries from spreading the word of the New Testament as it just seems to spread extra demands for getting into Heaven and is decreasing people's chances of being saved. Originally Posted By: damien Quote:So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God? If they have a "religious belief" that causes them to deny that Jesus is the son of God then, yes, they won't spend eternity with him. I believe that's what the Bible teaches. I just find that to be despicable.
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Quote:So by this interpretation, someone who does not believe in God or the trinity cannot commit the unforgivable sin as they are denying the existence of such a being which negates the possibility of believing it to be evil. Right?I think that may well be so, but I don't really understand the unforgivable sin. Quote:What is a full Christian?I used that vague term because not all churches have exactly the same view. The classical view is a baptized Christian; however some Protestant churches put the emphasis on a personal acceptance of Jesus.Many Christians, I should point out, believe non-Christians may be saved.
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Originally Posted By: bobaliciousIf they are judged on whether they glorified God, then what point is there in accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour? If you know about Jesus then you need to accept him to get into Heaven, its an extra criteria that isn't required of others. If I was a Christian and actually believed this, I would be campaigning to stop missionaries from spreading the word of the New Testament as it just seems to spread extra demands for getting into Heaven and is decreasing people's chances of being saved.I think you've got it backwards! I'd much rather be held to the standard of accepting Christ than to the standard Willy Nubu is held to. When Paul talks about "glorifying God", there's a lot more there than what my post suggested. (My fault.) Awareness of God comes with an awareness of right and wrong. The standard is total perfection. Would you want to be held to that standard? That's why Jesus died to bridge that gap. So we wouldn't be judged by our lack of righteousness, but can take on his. Quote: Originally Posted By: damien If they have a "religious belief" that causes them to deny that Jesus is the son of God then, yes, they won't spend eternity with him. I believe that's what the Bible teaches. I just find that to be despicable. Why? This doesn't exclude anyone outside of his/her decision on the matter.
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The beast has revealed himself to you... perhaps the beast is Bob. Has Bob revealed himself to you? LoLDo you think perpetual happiness in the Garden of Eden maybe got so boring that eating the apple was justified?
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Originally Posted By: unsupervised this really can't be ignored Oh My Jeepers! I'm still laughing at that...erm...I mean...I'm not the Devil...I mean....WORSHIP ME!!!
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:smile: ...like maybe they wanted a little action, some excitement?
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Yeah, I mean isn't enjoyment and bliss as much a product of dissatisfaction and misery as they are delight in the actuality of the present? How could you be happy being happy all the time? It leaves nothing to strive for.
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Originally Posted By: OldFolksYeah, I mean isn't enjoyment and bliss as much a product of dissatisfaction and misery as they are delight in the actuality of the present? How could you be happy being happy all the time? It leaves nothing to strive for. I think you've got that backwards. Dissatisfaction is the absence of something, namely satisfaction.
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I don't know. How can you ever enjoy what you have if you've never been without?
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Originally Posted By: OldFolksI don't know. How can you ever enjoy what you have if you've never been without? Remember when you first started having sex with someone?Did you enjoy it?