Something religous that scares me

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Theres a man in the making. You can admit a wrong, and aplogize. Cool. Takes a big man, regardless of physical size, to admit he has erred. And I also apologize for any slight I threw your way. Peace.

It sounds like you're very involved in your son's life and trying to keep him on the right track. He is very fortunate.But you really need to think before you start throwing around words like "pedophile".> I am not raising Smootches, her parents are. They decide for her, and I decide for my son.C'mon, you know you have an opinion. If her parents were cool with her smoking or shooting up speed, you'd have no opinion? You'd just defer to her parents? I doubt that her parents evaluated this sight before giving her the green light.When you mentioned your son, I assumed that you were saying that you didn't think this site was appropriate for any 16-year-old.

Its alright man as long as were cool.

Thanks, Steve, re:my son.Honestly, I thought very carefully before using the word pedophile. I wanted to get a strong reaction from you, and you did not disapoint me. I see innocence as innocence, whether it is sexual innocence or ideological/religious innocence. Smooches posted as she had out of admirable youthful exuberance, and I think she hoped others would either agree with her, or at least afirm her decision. You notice she pulled out of the conversation y'all were having, and you will notice what she said. She did not anticipate, despite her mothers warning, that she would be assailed. She might have been niave, but even her niavete was endearing, and made me feel...paternal, I guess. I did not think for a minute that you were really an actual pedophile. And it could very well be that, since I actually know very little of smooches, that I might be the one who is naive.Of course I would have an opinion. But my opinion would most likely offend you, and cause you to tell me that it isn't funny, those hopefully rhetorical references, and all. I knew a guy in boot camp. In the course of the inevitble conversation, he allowed that his dad beat him. I said that many parents spank their kids. He told me that his dad beat the shit out of him with his fists. Foolishly, I mentioned that he was stupid for repecting his dad, and his dad was an asshole. He became angry, this future squid, and defended his dad, yelling etc. He knew that his father was wrong, but still held the love of his father that he felt he should. I don't often try anymore to directly confront those that I think lack the ability to realistically look at events, especially young people (I am NOT saying that young people are not realistic. Their dynamics are complex, apart from those adults that lack realistic outlooks). I have realized that more can be accomplished by keeping open the lines of communication, and, despite my occassional emotional lapses, I try to stay focused on communication. It is dificult to effect anothers thinking or acting when there is no communication ( that would be a "Duh!"). So I would simply try to make subtle, personal references to my life or experience to avoid confrontation. As one who has easily spent ten thousand dollars on pot alone, I am soured on drugs, and I recognize the potential harm. I do know many who are recreational smokers, and that is as far as they go. But I have known others who have become so sidetracked via drugs that it hurts me to see ( like my cousin, who is now in a vegatative state in the nearby hospital. It seems that cocaine and he don't get along well, and they might have to pull the plug on the father of four girls, and the husband of one loving wife. He is 46). I have seen the harm that drugs can cause to a person, but cannot begin to equate the beauty that smooches expressed with drug use ( I do know where you are headed. This is me, after all, Steve!).If her folks did not evaluate this site before allowing smooches to post here, it could be because she has consistantly exhibited a mature, positive, responsible attitude, and so they have been shown consistantly that she can be trusted-that most valuable of all bonds.I really did not know that this site was geared for youth. That does explain much.I had thought to show the tie between my saying that I had run a scam or two on churches, and the post, but this one is too long already. It is the innocence is innocence that is currently giving me some problems right now regarding my continued posting here. I am conflicted, but definately not for the first time! lol!

\> I wanted to get a strong reaction from you, and you did not disapoint me.
Are you saying you're a manipulator and you got what you wanted? Seriously, are you a pedophile?
As for the rest of the blather: Youth, by and large, are not as innocent as you'd believe or wish.

O.K. he might be right, but dont be scared I try to pray every night, if it happens it happens, religoin has notin to do with going to heaven. If you believe in Jesus and god and that jesus was the sun of god youll be fine. And also you need to be sorry for all the sins you have done. I dought it will happen but if its meant to happen it will. Just calm down dont be scared.

You know what you are tottaly wrong.

Why don't you pray that you and your family receive to wisdom not to be so bigoted?

I agree or what about this date 06/6/66

You talking about 2066 or 1966 or 1866 or 1766 or...? And the current (European Gregorian) calendar is a relatively modern invention.

My parents had the clear idea that children were an extension of their parents, whose job it was to make sure they did the right thing. It made for a lot of pain and a lot of damage. I consider it a very wrong way to bring children up - it denies the fact that they are separate, independent souls.
It may be that my wife (who had a similarly unhappy childhood) and I have gone too far with our own children, allowing them latitude and dignity; perhaps people often react a little too far. It seems to me, vincubus, that you may be reacting too far from your own youth. Your determination that your son shall not repeat your own mistakes seems a bit over-controlling to me. To break up friendships because you don't like the friends may be justifiable sometimes, but to do it frequently rings alarm bells.

when you get into your car, Steve, and it is hot. I assume that you turn on your air conditioner. You are manipulating your enviroment. When you show irritiation at the slowness, cussedness or ineptness of another person, you are attempting to manipulate the person or the enviroment. We all are manipulators or try to be. Science tries to manipulate, as does religion. as do parents, as do children, as do teachers, as do legislators, as do women, as do men. It is not so much the manipulation, but the reason for the manipulation, that is the issue.Really Steve, throwing the charge of pedophelia back at me...it lacks impact or charge. It is never a good idea to play the other persons game. Nice try, though.I assume that since you dismiss the rest of my post as blather, that you are left with nothing to say? Being led to a dead end wall and left there...I don't believe youth is innocent. I wish it to be so, but I am waaaay to cynicle and jaded to believe otherwise. I cannot fathom how you could have made such an assumption of me

Ineligble, I am not your parents, I am not you or your wife. I am not even my parents. I can understand where you are comming from. I have been told by a few guys that the way to show true repect for your parents is to be just like them. That might be true for some, and not for others. It is not true for me. I also do not insist that my son be like me, I don't insist that he be the opposite of me. I do insist that he be himself as long as that does not include injuriouis behaviour to himself or others. Once his mind has developed and matured, then I am happy to let him be as much himself as he chooses to be. Carlos Castenada tells of a method employed and taught by Don Juan Matus called capitulation ( it has been some years, but I think that is what it was called). One lays in a shallow trench in the ground (womb), relives ones entire life, no matter how painfull, every moment, and reassess it with the hindsight provided by greater maturity and (assumed) wisdom. I have not lain in a trench, but have done the procedure. Having done this, I am not about to regress and irrationally inflict my life onto my son. He has, for example, hung out with two brothers my sons age. I was told that these two boys were troublesome. I decided to see for myself. I gave them the benifit of the doubt. After the three of them destroyed the property of another playmate whose family was on vacation, I changed my mind. I forbade any contact. I am glad, as these two brothers have racked up time in juvie, and have been taken to court several times by other citizens, and the prosecutor. Had I allowd my son to continue to hang with them, it is very likely that he would have gone that same road. I am not going to risk further contact. I don't consider my actions to be extreme. Do you? To persist in a mistake actually makes it one. Another boy at school smokes weed instead of appearing in school many times. He also has a juvie record, and has been to juvie. His mom cares little what he does, or where he is, and the boy does not show good sense. After he and my son got in trouble, my son for giving this boy cigarettes stolen from me to fit in, the school called, and the two have been seperated since. Again, not very extreme. Tell me, honestly, would you allow YOUR son to continue such an association? When he was younger, he associated with a very bright, mechanically AND artistically gifted young man a few years older. That boy cussed his mom out and she did him likewise. He even punched a teacher, and his mom blamed the teacher. The boy had a rotten attitude, and my son began to bring it home with him. Sorry, not going to happen. I outlined the issue and my concern several times, and also told my son at least six times that he needs to leave that other boys attitude at the door when he comes in, and that if he could not, then the association woudl terminate. My son was unable to leave the bad attitude at the door, so I kept my word. As I said, he is a follower, and easily influenced. I take into account the persoanlity of the child, whether it is my sons, my neices ro nephews, or the neighbor kid. There is no one size fits all when dealing with anyone.My sister in law, currently in her last year of law school, has also the idea that kids are seperate, independant souls. She has raised her kids that way. She is still supporting the older two, who always seem to have money for beer and pot, but no money to help with the bills, and seem to also have dificulty finding and keeping jobs. The youngest is spoiled rotten, and incredibly disrespectfull. The sister in law cannot figure out WHY her kids are so rotten (her own words) or disrespectful, or lazy (again, her own words).Out of the three main parenting styles, I lean towards the authoritative, not the authoritarian, or permissive. I also am very aware that I am not perfect, and will cross lines; sometimes being permissive, and sometimes being authoririan. I have simply given my son the benefit of the experience and knowledge that I have gained in my growing up years (as any parent would), so that he will not need to take the same road to learn what I can teach him from my experience (ie. he will not need to smoke for some twenty years to finally realize that it is only a slow suicide plan, and that he is paying out money to kill himself, burn clothes, car seats, and be a slave to a damn plant). Is THAT bad? Having been a juvinile delinquent, I am very aware fo what kids can do, and in what time frame. He has tried to invent the wheel with me, and it simply hasn't worked, as I have been there, done that. I am glad that you are concerned. I would be more so if you did NOT express any reservations regarding my parenting style. So I guess I should thank you

Science tries to manipulate, as does religion.How so? There are humans involved who have their issues, but science as a whole seeks truth in things that can be subject to experimentation, and converges on the right answer over time. It sometimes goes down blind alleys, but by and large is far less arrogant than religion, when religion tries to explain natural phenomena.> as do parents, as do children, as do teachers, as do legislators, as do women, as do men. It is not so much the manipulation, but the reason for the manipulation, that is the issue.Don't blur the difference between the subtle manipulation that's practiced in our day-to-day interactions with the manipulation that's practiced by demagogues. You're being coy. You know the difference.> Really Steve, throwing the charge of pedophelia back at me...it lacks impact or charge. It is never a good idea to play the other persons game. Nice try, though."The other person's game." You must think you're a real master of rhetoric. You're quite full of yourself.> I assume that since you dismiss the rest of my post as blather, that you are left with nothing to say? Being led to a dead end wall and left there...You've stricken me speechless...or bored. To much text for so few ideas.

I am not trying to blur any diferences, perceived or real. I simply stated that we all manipulate, since you asked me if I am a manipulator, like it was a bad thing. I showed that we all manipulated. I did not try to draw any other distinctions. That was of your crafting.So then why ask me if I am a pedophile? To answer is a no win situation. And there is only one way that I could answer that question. So why ask it of me, if not to throw it back to me as if some verbal vollyball? When I read that question, I actually laughed out loud, I was so amused. I am a master of nothing, but yes, I am full of myself. I had better be, since I have not lent my skin out.Led to a dead end wall=boredom, or stricken speechless. Either one, but I doubt you are, were, or ever have been stricken speechless.

Either one, but I doubt you are, were, or ever have been stricken speechless.You know what the phrase "to be full of oneself" means, right? Or am I talking to 10 year-old poseur? Reread you crap about peodophile volleying. Then think about another grown-up reading it. You should be embarrassed.So few words, so many commas. I have been striken BoReD in the prime of my life. How about if we have a pomposity-and-verbosity contest? Maybe we can get the Olympic committee to adopt it. Then we can have Twit of the Year contest.

To be full of oneself. Sure dude, it is when we inhabit the entirety of our skin, which is the largest organ, by the way. To say one is full of oneself seems reduntant, as there is no other way we can be. Am I missing something?10 years old? I would have gone for seven...leave some room for negotiating, ya know. I am not embarrassed, but if you want to be embarrassed for me, I have no objections.I picked up a great deal on commas at a yard sale, so I have to use them somewhere!Cool! A pompsity and verbosity Olympic event! Excellent!I guess you are implying that I am a twit? So you are responding to a twit, so does that make you a twit two? Be careful, I might really be a twit, and then you would be insulting me. Why! I could take umbrage! But, since you are bored...

Yes, I am also a twit.

lol! I did not say that.

Out of concern for your boredom, I have posted a thread in which you could perhaps exercize a small portion of your facile mind. If you choose.

I am a twit and you are a twit for having posted the last 10 or so posts.