Room?

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In reply to:Well supernatural is a very strong word I agree. Originally I said it might have just be whats called residual energy. It is thought that when something really bad happens in a certain place (like murder or rape etc etc), bad energy (Like Karma) is left behind. Same thing goes when something good happens (like birth for an example). That's all I was trying to say. It could have been nothing at the same time.This is not supernatural? "It is thought..."? Are you using the word "energy" in a scientific way? What would cause someone not to just entertain such ideas, but actually believe that they may be true?_________________________>Do you understand the difference between "theory" and "belief"? No. In fact, in a scientific context, do you understand the difference between "theory" and "wild guess"? I doubt it. Do you understand the difference between "irrational" and "ignorant"? Clearly not.> DO NOT try and tell me what I do and do not now. Again goes to show how IGNORANTE you are.I now I'm ignorante about some things, so tell me what is the difference between...o theory and beliefo theory and "wild guess"o irrational and ignorantFeel free to use whatever resource you like...even Google.> It's funny everyone wanted to come bash me when I was giving my opinion without having to bash someone.. but when you do it no one says a damned word. Do you not realize how ignorant you come off, not to mention arrogant that you simply just think you know everything?? Get off your high horse Steve, lord knows you have no right to sit there.I was educated in the discipline (yes, a discipline) of an applied science. I take this stuff pretty seriously. I don't believe that there should be a law against people believing what they want to, but some irrational thought are destructive and have a corrosive effect on society (e.g., racial prejudice). And I'm not sitting on a horse. I'm sitting on an indigo blue sofa.I don't know everything, but I have a passing familiarity with science. So I say "x", and you say "not x", and I say "x!" and you say "not x!", it doesn't mean that I think I know everything.> There is nothing uneducated about my post. My theories and opinions are just that.. mine.You haven't looked up solipsism yet, have you? While you're at it, look up Occam's razor. Wouldn't it be interesting to learn something new?> You don't have to like them, but reguardless does not give you the permission to act ignorant and calling it irrational when you have no factually information to back up that my theories and opinons are wrong.If someone were to post that blacks are stupid and Jews ritually kill gentiles, I don't have the permission to disagree? If someone posts something that contradicts physics, I'm not permitted to respond?> First off it's not ignorant.. get that through your head. Secondly people though the world was flate because they had no other information to go on. Many years later it was determained that the earth was rough.. there for the original theory was destroyed and fact was set into place. Until the day comes they can disprove residual energies or anything supernatural I will continue to belive my theories and opinions.In ancient times, there was little knowledge of science, and people engaged in magical thinking to explain everyday phenomena. Except for the occasional visionaries and deep thinkers, they had nowhere else to go. Most people were wrong. Then clever people would come up with rational explanations for how things worked, and a lot of people were resentful and wouldn't listen. They were ignorant.As science and knowledge progressed, rational people came to realize that magical thinking was an intellectual dead end, and contributed nothing to the advancement of knowledge. In some cases, though, the people in control found it convenient to keep the populace ignorant and "down on the farm". Southern slaveholders and the government of North Korea are two examples of that.> Also science does not have all the answers. I am not saying science is false, but at the same time science cannot say I am false. Are you even close to getting the point Steve?You still don't get the idea of the fallacy of proving the negative. There are a lot of things that can't be proven false that have no merit. The idea that homosexuals are spawns of the devil is one of them. Can you prove it false?>> Given the state of knowledge today, there is no excuse for a lot of contemporary common beliefs that many accept as facts. Not all "theories" deserve to be promoted to beliefs, and not all beliefs are worthy of respect.> Thats your opinion Steve, that's not fact. Just because we are a "high tech" society does not mean people cannot have their own beliefs and theories. No matter how society changes or becomes more advanced, people will have their own theories and beliefs.. which I personally feel thats a good thing!! Who wants a society where everyone thinks the same?? Now thats boring.People believing things as if they are truths because it's fun and interesting? Intellectually bankrupt, and not my cup of tea. It would be sad to think that you put your beliefs on the same level as anything is science and mathematics.The evindence supporting your beliefs...the evidence. There's no rational explanation that you can think of (or have bothered to research), so come up with a creative idea involving good and evil energies and are satisfied.Psychic abilities, Theraputic Touch, and numerous other supernatural beliefs have crumbled under ojective scrutiny, but people still believe. "I believe "x", prove me wrong" is wrongheaded. Then proof is given, but the true beleivers won't be dissuaded.Examine at what motivates believers to fly airplanes into buildings, and blow up trains, while happily killing themselves, and tell me that your idea of "belief" isn't destructive.> THere is a whole department in the government that deals with supernatural happenings, inclusing UFO's.Tell me more about this. I may have to write a letter to my congressman.

Okay, if he does not want to look it up steve, how about you tell him. And a side not to everyone (specifically steve and N)...In order to further develop either argument you have to know each side of the story or else you get a biased one sided lop of crap. So try and get to know the whole deal...I mean stop soon or I will get into a bit more intensely and start picking on both of you...so many flaws...

Steve, just out of curiousity, have you ever experienced anything that you were unable to explain? Yes. But I didn't feel compelled to have an explanation. Really, it's OK for some things to remain unknown, until you can find the answer, if ever. It doesn't comfort me to make things up and believe them. I'm not in turmoil because I don't know what there was before the universe began, and I don't feel the need to make up stories.Hauntings, spirits, mediums, fortune tellers, astrologers, etc. never stand up to close scrutiny. Does the magic go away if you look too hard? People feel a strong compulsion to believe such things, and there are people who are happy to take their money and reinforce their beliefs. Even the fortune tellers who know that they are frauds justify what they do, claiming a value in making people feel better.Seriously, if things start creaking and flying around in your house, I don't blame you for being scared and puzzled. But I have no respect for jumping on the idea of spirits and evil energies.Occam's razor rears its head.

Feel free to critique whatever you like in whatever I say. Just keep in mind that...A: I claim "x".B: "x" is false.A: I believe "x". Prove it's false....is not a valid way to support "x"'s position. Keep in mind that "x" in this case is not supported by any objective evidence.OK, go ahead.

Seriously Steve,I highly respect your knowledge in science/facts and trivia (Have you ever tried to get on Jeopary? You should). However, you really have to stop this trend of trying to debunk peoples "beliefs". People believe in God/Gods and the supernatural. Man has believed in the spiritual world for as far back as history can show. Your disbelief becasue there is no scientific evidence to prove spiritual existence has gotten pretty old. My wife is a firm believer in teh spiritual world. Things have occured to her that have her convinced. You could argue till you are blue in teh face, but you will not dissuade her. Example: She and my daughter were sitting on the living room floor a couple of years ago and something swept between them. They actually felt it. They looked at each other and asked if each other felt it. My daughter says she saw "something" brush past her. She was quite upset and had trouble going to sleep for a few days. Is she a liar? I don't think so. What was it? I don't know. Do I believe it was a spirit? I don't know. I am somewhat similar to you in that I kind of need some evidence to believe and nothing like that has ever happened to me. But, I don't totally disbelieve.You can argue/spit on/yell at anyone with regards to medical/scientific/factual knowledge if you have evidence that they may be in the wrong, but please please please... could you take a back seat to arguing about the stupidity/ignorace/silliness of peoples "beliefs"?

well i did this in case anyone was curious:http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

hey Java, you should be proud. You've started a thread that's not only taken off but has remained relatively on topic.

we should make a records thread...so anyone who can make the longest thread that stays relatively or on topic gets in. Of course this just killed Java's...I would also like to say that the argument between them is going nowhere...like playing tennis with a wall.

Yea, and i think i acutally got 5 posts answering my question. out of what, 86? lmao

in the spirit of looooong posts...here's a leap of faithSchroedinger, Erwin! Professor of physics!Wrote daring equations! Confounded his critics!(Not bad, eh? Don't worry. This part of the verseStarts off pretty good, but it gets a lot worse.)Win saw that the theory that Newton'd inventedBy Einstein's discov'ries had been badly dented.What now? wailed his colleagues. Said Erwin, "Don't panic,No grease monkey I, but a quantum mechanic.Consider electrons. Now, these teeny articlesAre sometimes like waves, and then sometimes like particles.If that's not confusing, the nuclear danceOf electrons and suchlike is governed by chance!No sweat, though--my theory permits us to judgeWhere some of 'em is and the rest of 'em was."Not everyone bought this. It threatened to wreckThe comforting linkage of cause and effect.E'en Einstein had doubts, and so Schroedinger triedTo tell him what quantum mechanics implied.Said Win to Al, "Brother, suppose we've a cat,And inside a tube we have put that cat at--Along with a solitaire deck and some Fritos,A bottle of Night Train, a couple mosquitoes(Or something else rhyming) and, oh, if you got 'em,One vial prussic acid, one decaying ottomOr atom--whatever--but when it emits,A trigger device blasts the vial into bitsWhich snuffs our poor kitty. The odds of this crimeAre 50 to 50 per hour each time.The cylinder's sealed. The hour's passed away. IsOur pussy still purring--or pushing up daisies?Now, you'd say the cat either lives or it don'tBut quantum mechanics is stubborn and won't.Statistically speaking, the cat (goes the joke),Is half a cat breathing and half a cat croaked.To some this may seem a ridiculous split,But quantum mechanics must answer, "Tough @#&!We may not know much, but one thing's fo' sho':There's things in the cosmos that we cannot know.Shine light on electrons--you'll cause them to swerve.The act of observing disturbs the observed--Which ruins your test. But then if there's no testingTo see if a particle's moving or restingWhy try to conjecture? Pure useless endeavor!We know probability--certainty, never.'The effect of this notion? I very much fear'Twill make doubtful all things that were formerly clear.Till soon the cat doctors will say in reports,"We've just flipped a coin and we've learned he's a corpse."'So saith Herr Erwin. Quoth Albert, "You're nuts.God doesn't play dice with the universe, putz.I'll prove it!" he said, and the Lord knows he tried--In vain--until fin'ly he more or less died.Win spoke at the funeral: "Listen, dear friends,Sweet Al was my buddy. I must make amends.Though he doubted my theory, I'll say of this saint:Ten-to-one he's in heaven--but five bucks says he ain't."

I highly respect your knowledge in science/facts and trivia (Have you ever tried to get on Jeopary? You should). However, you really have to stop this trend of trying to debunk peoples "beliefs". > > > People believe in God/Gods and the supernatural. Man has believed in the spiritual world for as far back as history can show.Yes, irrational belief is a hallmark of human civilization, and an interesting area of study. Antropologists have plausible explanations (but not proof), and recent functional brain imaging studies have shed some light on why people feel the way they feel.> Your disbelief becasue there is no scientific evidence to prove spiritual existence has gotten pretty old.I'm presented with the same argument over and over and over and over and over. The idea is not that science has proven it or disproven it. A lot of such beliefs are outside of the domain of science and logic, and will never be proven or disproven. The question is, Why do people believe this stuff?> My wife is a firm believer...An appeal to emotion is not a valid form of reasoning. Because people of worthy of respect believe something doesn't automatically make their beliefs rational or reasonable. No one is calling anyone a liar. Just irrational.> You can argue/spit on/yell at anyone with regards to medical/scientific/factual knowledge if you have evidence that they may be in the wrong, but please please please... could you take a back seat to arguing about the stupidity/ignorace/silliness of peoples "beliefs"?When someone says, "I believe in spirits", there the implication that you're wrong if you don't believe in spirits. The issue isn't my proving them wrong. The issue is that they present evidence that they're right. So far all I've heard are subjective feelings of bad energies and things flying around rooms. So, based on evidence like that, why do people jump on and cling to supernatural explanations?People discuss their spiritual beliefs all the time, and they rarely go challenged. Well, why?

Is half a cat breathing and half a cat croaked.Not exactly. It's a superposition of states; i.e., both states fully exist. That idea may lead to devices that can decrypt complex codes very rapidly...sayanora to encryption for secure communications.

>not my cup of tea

Thats fine it's not your cup of tea.. we're not trying to tell you it should be your cup of time. But there is no reason it cannot be my cup of tea.

Not sure why you have to argue over what you believe and what i believe. Lets agree thatw e disagree and call it a day? hmm??

Also homosexual, like myself, are not spawns of Satan. How can i prove it? As I said before I'ma christian, pray at night to the lord above. I don't think a spawn of satan would devot his soul to the heavenly father. I am sure thats not good enough for you.. but hey thats what I have to offer.

Now lets atleast leave the "debate" between you as I as finished. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

You cant be the spawn of satan cause steve doesnt believe in satan :wink:

LOL! Good point hehe :grin:

Now lets atleast leave the "debate" between you as I as finished.Might as well, because...> Thats fine it's not your cup of tea.. we're not trying to tell you it should be your cup of time. But there is no reason it cannot be my cup of tea....shows that you have absorbed or understood 0% of what I wrote. That was a lot of text not to comprehend, wasn't it?> Not sure why you have to argue over what you believe and what i believe. Lets agree thatw e disagree and call it a day? hmm??That you equate your beliefs with what you call my beliefs is a true insult. It's like eqauating belief in atoms and molecules with belief in ghosts and spirits and Santa Clause.> Also homosexual, like myself, are not spawns of Satan. How can i prove it? As I said before I'ma christian, pray at night to the lord above. I don't think a spawn of satan would devot his soul to the heavenly father. I am sure thats not good enough for you.. but hey thats what I have to offer.Hmmm.... That sounds a lot like my trying to show that there's no reason to believe (not prove the negative) that your ghosts and spirits exist. I guess they do exist, and saying that you pray to Jesus doen't demonstrate that you're not the son of Lucifer. Obviously you don't take the word of God literally.

You cant be the spawn of satan cause steve doesnt believe in satan I do now.

Yep, if this whole thing is about beliefe and proof, then there is no proof satan exists so there is no way something can spawn off something that there is no proof of :wink: Even steve would be proud of this answer

I believe in Satan. Or Santa. Or Santana. Or Santayana. Or one of those guys.

hah but you yourself stated you dont believe anything with out scientific proof.