theres another side here eddie.I wouldnt help him to fuck over his will be wife, but after it became apparent he was set on marriage I stopped the bitching and started trying to find a way to convince him to seek medical help, someone whos not against being gay with a passion from christ, someone wo can help him work shit out in his head, That honestly is the problem here, whats in his head, its what eats at him, its what keeps pushing. or at the very least to find a woman who is willing to deal with his being gay rather than just lie and take the first one you talk into marring you.Iv never changed my stance that its wrong to marry someone you dont love, I never pulled a mit romney, im jsut trying to find a new solution to a very real problem this guy is suffering from.You know better than most here that being gay is a real bitch in this world, add to that that he has it in his head that it makes him bad, Im sure you can see its a real bastard problem for him to tackle. He is at least trying to deal with it, hes seeking help and the least anyone could do is try to offer solutions to him finding that help. Noone said you have to help him lie to the future wife about who he is, you can still help him with out shitting on him and making him feel worse. after hsi last post I responded to Im not even sure we are dealing with teh right problem, hes not sure hes gay, he has some shit in his head to work out. The problem we are all screaming at him for may not even be th root of whats making him feel so shitty.Im still waiting for him to reply to what I asked, its possible he isnt even fucking gay just having some curious thoughts about it and wondering if he is. All the shit is not on teh table, I know less now than i did when he first posted.No one said anyone has to help him to lie, but fuck oh dear is it that hard to share some compassion with him and talk to him like a person? with this shit in his head hes been fucking kicked enough.You and your BF are certain your gay, his earlire post he comes off more like someone who thinks he might be, whos feeling attraction to men but never acted on it and isnt sure he would if he was free to do so.WHen your BF (sorry I cant for the fucking life of me remember his name, but adam is whats sticking out) told his parents and they blew batshit over it? Noone kicked you two over it, people offered support, aside form one asshole who was happy to have his family shit on him when he admitted to being gay) We didnt kick you two, we kicked the asshole that offered criticism of your life. Its not like the guy is asking how to molest children or some fucking horror like that, hes trying to find himself, and figure out what to do and how it all fits in to what he wants out of his life. He isnt out to purposely hurt the woman, hes asking how to make it easier on her, hes not here with malice in his fucking heart.If no one can condone helping him to lie, they could at least offer some constructive advice on how to deal with what he feels as thats really whats at the root of his problem. Quote:I'm sorry he felt he was going to hear people actually tell him how to lie and deceive this woman... but just not going to happen. No one is asking you to do that, you can help with out shitting on your own values and "people actually tell him how to lie and deceive this woman"
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Gay Married.... How to keep wife satisfied?
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Did those other forums advice and such help you at all??
I guess the replies on those forums are ALOT different and ALOT more helpful then the rude, hurtful debating replies you got here?
Do you feel attacked??
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Originally Posted By: pinkranger4Did those other forums advice and such help you at all??I guess the replies on those forums are ALOT different and ALOT more helpful then the rude, hurtful debating replies you got here?Do you feel attacked?? Yes, they are a lot more objective and compassionate than the replies here, but I must say that there's a few people here that I truly admire and whose friendship I am happy to have made.I do not feel attacked, per se, because I know where those attackers come from. They have a different frame of reference and outlook on life which I do not really care for and would not even trade my position with theirs, as desperate as mine seems to be.
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From what I could tell, that other site gave you the same responses that you received here. In the end, you're still cheating the other person.
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i don't see how you view the responses to be the same.in any case, here are the responses that got me thinking:- I'm not sure what difference it makes if he is/was gay or not? He has promised fidelity. I don't think the risk of him cheating... with a man is any higher than the chance of a hetero man cheating [with a woman]. It's a risk we all take when we marry. If he is a devout ... and holds the ... values highly then hopefully he will take his marriage vows seriously and never cheat.- If the gay man is conforming to his religion (but I rather say God) to fit in and is struggling with his attraction to men, but wants to serve his God by doing right by getting married to a women, then I have respect for him for several reasons:1.He knows that fornication is wrong and that any sex outside of a heterosexual marriage means that he is commiting sin.2. Instead of him being carnal by giving in the the lust of his flesh and his sexual urge to be with a man, he has denied himself, taking up his cross to serve God by being a living sacrifice.3. Because if he is a fornicator, idolater, adulterer, thief, covetor, drunkard, revilers, or extortioner, he understands that he no longer can engage in those sins if he wants to inherit the kingdom of God.Marriage is no fairy tale. It would be nice to have a mate that ONLY lusts after you and ONLY desires to be with you. But unfortunately with sex thrown at many men on billboards and throuth the media, for some men the temptation to stray will and does happen.... etc.- The gender to which a person is attracted is not as important as the way he or she treats that person.
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Quote: - The gender to which a person is attracted is not as important as the way he or she treats that person.How do you read that?I read it as it doesnt matter if your gay or straight, what matters is how you treat your lover.To me that says honesty and respect.How do you read that?
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Originally Posted By: Grvtykllr
I read it as it doesnt matter if your gay or straight, what matters is how you treat your lover.
To me that says honesty and respect.
How do you read that?I read it the same way, and I've said before, to me complete honesty and respect do not require complete disclosure. And I say it again, "In fact, I believe that one of God's blessings is that we are able to hide what goes through our minds from others, lest it hurts them unnecessarily. This is no lying. This is not telling anything other than the truth. This is being selective in what we disclose."
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I have been watching this thread. I don't really have a side, xcept being honest with the woman. If she is as devout as him, she will understand some of the emotional stuff that is bound to surface. At least then, he wouldn't be living a lie, he would just be living against his grain.Honesty, and respect. Yup yup. One bit of deceit, leads to more and more. But I suppose, divorce is always an option eh?
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I do see them as the same..
Basically they are telling you what was said here:
Don't do it.
You can make it work if you are able to supress your feelings.
I tried and failed.
Seek a counsellor.I'm saying you can sure as hell try, but suppose 10-15 yrs down the road you can't handle it and/or the marriage fails because of these feelings.. You stole a good chunk of this womans live, which can't be replaced, for no fault of her own.
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divorce brings us back to god, depending on what god and how devout, it may not be an option!
He said he would leave an exit strategy for her in the relationship.
based on history and how bad shit is likely to get, what if that strategy is suicide?
I think having your spouse kill them selves to let you out of it is pretty fucking bad, and what would that do to the kids? ever known a kid whos parent did it?
I have 34 cousins who went through that, found dad broken into their moms house and dead on the floor from a gun shot wound with a .22.
it ended up leading mom to suicide by over dose a few years later, and not one of them came out OK,all of them shitty and down trodden, 2 nearly dead from OD them selves, and none of them able to function as an adult.
bad shit all the way around, Im one of the lucky bastards who cleaned up the mess. Ever try to get that much blood out of the carpet? fuck it wouldnt go away, every time th steam hit it even with the enzymes more and more came up, gallons of blood tainted water down the toilet, it took hours. Add to that them coming home from school to find it and his blood across the living room floor, spread out in a 6 foot puddle...
My concerns are for far more than just the lie to the prospective wife, it is possible to live with that and keep it hidden maybe for ever, but what if it isnt? what if it comes out? what are the consequences then?
if it was simple matter of divorce, then fuck it, at least its possible to over come. We are not talking about cheating on your wife and costing your self a marriage, we are talking about shit that ruins lives. destroys and takes lives, and with few exceptions I dont think anyone has considered that, if they had there would be more compassion to help him figure out how to straighten out his head so he can move on with his life and make the best choice instead of just telling him dont fucking do it.
Maybe Im wrong, maybe that has never crossed jases mind, but what if it has? what if thats his exit plan? history and many cases prove its a real possibility.
Even if its nto his plan, its not too far fetched to think it could become one withteh world bearing down on you and jsut wanting all the pain to end, all the shit to go away and have it over and be out of reach for more abuse.
Thousands of kids kill themselves every year over far less than this. shitty grades, parents needing to have regret for what they did to them, girlfriend dumped them, teach her a lesson....
suicide is a very reasonable conclusion.
I think since he came here for help he deserves more consideration than just fucking get over it and dont do it.those suggestions got the thread no where.
its time to look deeper and try to help someone thats really suffering.
Everyone is fast to jump up and offer advise on abortion, how to make a girl squirt, how to grow your dick, how to jack off,everything. How about the same consideration for a real fucking problem? -
Actually Chance I do have compassion for this guy, and I have said over and over again that if he plans on marrying this woman he needs to be honest with her. I never made the statement that I thought he was doing this out of pure malice. Sadly I think he truly believes what he is doing is right... which in logic sense is not right if he is not 100% honest with her. I even stated he needed to seek therapy to truly work out his feelings from a neutral party. If he can be honest with this woman and let her know that he's gay (Or whatever) and she still wants to marry him than sure fine more power to them (though I still think it's a bad idea). At least this way this woman knows what she is getting into. I think if he has any respect or love for this woman he’d disclose this very important information.BUT even with that said he’s made it VERY clear he refuses to say anything to this woman or even seek counsel beyond that ridiculous Aversion Therapy from his church (which just makes me sick to my stomach). I find that to be a very cruel cruel thing to do to this lady. Yet he doesn’t seem to even care about the predicament his putting this woman through. So I do have compassion, but it’s hard to constantly show compassion to a person who refuses to have compassion for a lady he’s about to marry.
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I wasnt directing that necessarily at you eddie.
But I think he does have compassion for her, if he didnt he wouldn't give a shit to come here and try to find a solution instead of just doing it.Hes battling the worst shit there is, himself. He needs help, not just to be kicked again and again.
He does need therapy, he needs a sympathetic ear whos trained to deal with the shit and has dealt with it before. simply telling him again and over and over hes wrong wont get him that.
Im against what he plans to do, but Im sure as hell not against him.
I know myself, fucking yelling at me telling me Im worng will never get me to do what it is that is needed or wanted, Ill fucking dig in and destroy everything rather than admit Im wrong, but my mind can be changed, with the right perspective and arguments and compassion, but never just by repeating Im fucking wrong. -
I am not against him, he has his beleifs, but I am against not being honest with a woman that he wants a life with. That is all. It will surface in the future, whether it be her feeling unloved, or him just going nuts with the decision and unhappiness.Being honest from the git, would save her and him alot of pain, and when they work through it, they may be closer than any other married couple we know. You have to be best friends with your partner before and above everything else. In being honest, he might just find that best friend who will have children with him, but not need the sexual side so much. I am not against his choice to live a straight life, I am only against him LYING to someone about it.
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and I agree with that whole statement.Its about trying to find an outlet of help for him so he can do that, so he can feel comfortable in talking to her, so he can have a happy life. Most of th posts just kick him and offer no solutions or help, that is what Im against.
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The PROBLEM is that there is just NO WAY of telling her that. NONE WHATSOEVER. This is just not an option in this case. And, I do resent making it a question of honesty when that option is not on the table.So, can we think of what other options there may be, if any at all?
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So, what is the problem? Sounds like the dating stuff we all face. You meet someone you like, build a friendship, be honest, and see if your compatible. It may take some time to find that woman who fits his "criteria". But heck, it takes those of us who are after our preferred gender a while to find the one that works with us!
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Become a monk.... You will be serving God and will swear chastity.
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Like you, I'm not against him either to be honest, just against what he's planning on doing.
As a gay man it's hard to hear someone who wants to treat this as if it's a disease and something he can "cured". It doesn't work that way and denying it and trying to "push it away" will eventually cause it to erupt sooner or later. It's something he needs to deal with now with a sympathetic ear (especially with a licensed professional) to truly work out his feelings. Suppressing these feelings does nothing but harm.
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Well throw us a bone here and tell us why it's not a option. Give us more information about you. And no not telling you to tell us your name and your street address, but background information so we might have a better idea on how to help you.
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ok, here's your bone, eddie...
and before anyone writes anything back, please stay focused on the issue.... i am really in no mood at all to discuss politics, religion, or world leaders.