Venting...

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I am so frustrated right now.I think four years of deep frustration have finally just about boiled over and I've got to figure out what to do with it.I think everyone has had friends who are self-centered or friends who can make you feel unappreciated. Well, my best bud is like the epitome of both of those things and I am so tired of not saying anything about it. Problem is, I think I get the brunt of it.I have done so much for him over the years. You name it. Without asking in return. He often goes through crisis of epic proportions and I'm there for him through thick or thin. When he was in the psych ward four months ago, I was totally supporting him. He's going through crap now and I make a point of making sure he knows he has my support. And he takes it. Calls me, talks to me, takes whatever I have to offer. Little things or big things...I do tons for this guy. And obviously I'm getting something out of the friendship or I wouldn't still be in it right?But here's the thing. After and in spite of all that I do for him, he never - I mean NEVER - does or says anything to express appreciation to me. He will think me for specific things. Thanks for the cd. Thanks for helping me with my taxes. That sort of thing. But never appreciation for just being a good friend. I have heard him do this with another friend or two, but never me. Another thing, several times he has mentioned people who are helpful to him or who have been supportive to him. He will say "Richard, Robert, my group..." but guess who never gets mentioned in those lists? Yep.I've often wondered if it is just me and that he can't acknowledge my friendship or express appreciation, or is it anyone? Maybe he can express feelings about his friends to other friends, but not directly to the friend he is appreciating. However, I have actually heard him expres to another friend (my roommate) how much he appreciated his support and friendship when he was in the hospital. And my roommate didn't do nearly as much for him as I did! This is not a jealousy thing - I don't think - just frustration at feeling like I do all this for him and am so supportive, but (unlike his other friends) I never receive any acknowledgement around it.After my friend came out of the hospital back in December, we were eating at Fat Jimmy's, having a great conversation. We both knew that the next few weeks could be difficult for him. I expressed to him that, as always, he had my support in whatever way he needed. His response? "I still don't know what this friendship looks like."I'll tell you what it too often looks like to me: Me bending over and taking it up the a**!So I'm frustrated. To be honest, I don't want to hear "Let it go. You don't need that friend." I enjoy his friendship and I don't really have a lot of friends.So...for those who have read this far...should I try to talk to him about this, even though that might be a gamble? Or should I just let it go at this point?Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

Tell him how it is. It sucks that you are such a good friend and he doesnt appreciate you. How he responds will tell you a lot about who he is, and if you should let it go or not.

Sweetie, I completely understand where you're comming from (believe me, I've plenty of friends like that). You need to sit your 'friend' down and talk to him about this because it isn't fair for someone to take and take and never give anything in return. Be honest and up front with him about it and pay attention to his reaction. This is a conversation that could make or break your friendship but it's something you really need to do sweetie to see where it is going. Good luck ^_^

The thing is I'm not so worried about whether or not he does things for me or doesn't, or is supportive or not. I get a bit of that from him. Not a lot, but some.What I'm talking about mostly is that, while he seems to be able to express his appreciation to other friends and name them when he rattles off people who have been supportive, he doesn't seem to be able to do either of those things with me. FRUSTRATING!I also have to consider that fact that I am an approval addict and really need affirmation from people around me. But I don't think it's just that.

So, what are the chances that he feels close enough to you that he just assumes you know?Other relationships are like that. When you have been married(or dating) for quite sometime, people forget to say "I Love You" because they assume the other already knows.Not that it is that sort of relationship, but the dynamics could be the same.

I understand that, but why would he find it so easy to say those things to other friends and not me?

I am not saying it is easy or not easy. I am saying he might just assume you know. He might not feel that the other friends understand as much as you.If your friendship is well established, he might not feel the need to tell you, whereas with other friends, he doesn't feel as secure, so he must remind them.You should talk to him about it, you might just get that very answer.

Hmmm...that's something to consider.I know that he has expressed that kind of appreciation to my roommate, but has also expressed concern of losing my roommate's friendship. So that is something to consider. Thanks.Although it still doesn't explain why he would say things to me like "I've got several people supporting me, like Richard, Jim, the guys in my group..." and never add me to that list.Maybe I'm just making too much of this...I think I will have to bring it up at some point.

Do you know if he ever says he appriciates you to his other friends?He might and you don't know it.

Yeah, that's one thing I've often wondered.But seriously, I doubt he does. I wish I knew how to find out without being...petty.

Just talk to him sweetheart, I know you have the tact go get through it.

Thanks dear. I feel like I'm acting like such the girl around this...

Oh fuck, lets look at this from a helathy (HA HA!) male perspective with allk the standard male hang ups.flets ay that because of his ale hang upsf fhe feels like saying that shit to youf makes him look gay.Too close to another man, young age, less understanding of the world and more concerned about what the world thinks of him.... Gay if I admit to another man that I care about him.fThats how I see it anyways.The other people he says it too, maybe since hes just saying it and not feeling it very strongly he can justify it in his mind.Did you not take psyc?its been many many years since I did because well because Im fucking old but I still remember some of it and I remeber a entire chapter of that damned book on nothing but defense mechanisms. read into them, I think that may wel be the reason you have this close friendship and he doesnt say anythign about it, maybe he takes it for granted thtat because you two are so close then you both must just know it and nothing needs to be said ?On saying all of this shit I spilled forth in the last paragraph, I will say, I am speaking from the experience of my youth, my long gone but not entirely forgotten youth.

I was kind of thinking along those lines Chance. And based on this comment: In reply to: "I still don't know what this friendship looks like." I also thought maybe he (damiens friend) is gay. And doesn't know how to express it to damien. Maybe?

In reply to:

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I also thought maybe he (damiens friend) is gay. And doesn't know how to express it to damien. Maybe?

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No, dear, no!
Definitely not gay.
It was more of an "I'm not sure how much of a friendship I want with you right now" kind of comment.

Always with the gay thing...jeez...

Well I wasnt saying his was gay, rater that he was worried since you two had a real connection that maybe he is worried fpeople would percive him as being gay or that he may worry himself as to ffthe possibility of him being gay, or what is more likely I suspect, is that he knows about your fear ? is that the right word ? of gays, your discomfort or what not and thinks maybe you would start thinking of the possibility he is gay or something along those lines.I think atleast that its in those lines.He tells other people and fhe thinks that to tell you the same thing you will start distancing yourself from him because you suddenly got the idea he is gay and he knows your not comfortable with gays.ffor any and all of what i mentioned before when two men are close and straight society puts strains on fthem fto be manly and macho, maybe because you two are close its harder for him to express that in words to you because of his own fears and hang ups.Myself, I always remeber the old adage that actions speak louder then words..whats his actions towards you? not what he says, how he acts, if he has a difficult time expressing how he feels about you two Id look to how he acts about the two of you. I always thought the old adage was pretty accurate myself.ff

Like Chance, I'm old, so my opinion may be jaded, but I just have never experienced a male relationship that works like that. I have a few friends that I am very close to but I have never expressed any appreciation to them or them to me, other than the fact we like hanging around together. If anything, any expression has always been a quick "thanks" followed promptly by, "dumbass".

That being said, take my perspectives on the issue with a grain of salt.

I'll remind you of some good advice you gave to Africa not to long ago, "Don't expect your friends to be something their not." For whatever reason, this guy doesn't want to express his appreciation to you directly. Maybe he's to close to you and it would be extremely uncomfortable for him. Maybe he feels that his appreciation is simply, understood. Maybe he thinks you don't deserve any thanks. Who knows? The point is there are any infinitum of reasons, he hasn't made clear his thanks to you. Maybe you should just let him be, accept him for who he is, assume that he has his reasons for being how he is, and not expect more from him that what he is. Let the things you have done for him be there on reward, which is sometimes easier said than done, but is a much more genuine form of giving and builds greater pride in yourself than any fleeting accolades of thanks, from some one else, ever can.

If you feel you need more than he can, or is willing to offer, in your relationship, than perhaps it's time to reel back your friendship with him and find someone who can be a better friend. I'm not saying to tell him, "Fuck off, I'm never going to speak to you again." I mean, just don't be as close with him as you have. You can still be good friends but look for some one else who can better provide the approval you need in a close friendships.

I'm afraid I haven't been clear. I hope you can manage to gain something of value from the above muck. Anyway, best of luck.

Actually, your words were very clear...and wise.Thanks for reminding me of my words. That's advice I need to take myself.He is who he is. I've known that for a long time.One of the things I know I am guilty of (and probably others) is expecting people around me to act/react the way I do. When I get put out with people, I often have the presence of mind to ask myself "Are they doing something wrong, or just not doing what you would do?"Maybe I need to consider that here, huh?The more I'm reading these responses (which I REALLY appreciate) the more I'm beginning to think that the appreciation IS there and that he sees me as a good friend but just, for some reason, is not able to express that to me directly. Maybe the fact that he, now more than ever, is calling me up to hang out and wanting to share what's going on and process and listen to my thoughts - all that - is reason to believe he is acknowledging value in me and is appreciative.Hmmmmm......thanks