" It's just that they focussed their effort in not all the areas they should have."What parts do you take issue with?>>>"As for how we reach children, we don't focus on this...we focus on ourselves. That's the whole point! When we focus on ourselves and it becomes part of the expected behavior within our society (such as not killing others), this part (the influence on children and others) takes care of itself. Only in recent history where TV (as opposed to reality) has been our primary cultural mover has this not always been true. Nowdays we get a lot of behavior outside of mainstream society (we call it "diversity") as influenced by TV (killings at school and so forth)...so the TV is making things worse rather than better."???? Didn't really follow that...Are you saying that by ignoring instationalized discrimination the problem will fix it's self? That if everybody does right there will be no wrong.>>>"The whole thing takes time...but a long time is better than no time"Tell that to the people getting their rights trampled or getting lynched because they're gay, black or just plain different.>>>"but a long time is better than no time, which is what we have today."Why are we out of time today?
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White Pride
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"What parts do you take issue with?"I take issue with the omission of anything that will produce a long-term solution."Are you saying that by ignoring instationalized discrimination the problem will fix it's self?"Institutions are made of people...change the people and you change the institution."Why are we out of time today?"Today we have no solution...nor will we ever if we continue to approach the problem with legislation.
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"I take issue with the omission of anything that will produce a long-term solution."That logic seems awfully circular. Be specific. What would you like to have seen done differently.>>>"Institutions are made of people...change the people and you change the institution."Again where is the nexus of change? How are you going to change the people? Furthermore, why should the oppressed have to wait for their rights in a society that claims to be ensconced in equality and freedom for all.
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I take issue with the omission of anything that will produce a long-term solution.It would be great to work for a long-term solution, but not at the exclusion of dealing with short-trem issues. E.g., it would be good if people didn't beat you up, but in the meantime we need to stop people from assaulting you.> Institutions are made of people...change the people and you change the institution.A big downfall of the U.S. is that belief. Europeans are too cynical to believe that, and for good reason. If you're interesting in expanding on that idea, we can. (Keep in mind that the U.S. is a nation of laws, not of people, and we don't, or shouldn't be driven by personalties, or the hope that, if we could just find the right people, they'll do the right thing.)"Why are we out of time today?"> Today we have no solution...nor will we ever if we continue to approach the problem with legislation. Specifically, what legislation are you referring to?
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"Furthermore, why should the oppressed have to wait for their rights in a society that claims to be ensconced in equality and freedom for all."Are you interested in a solution or in being able to parade down a street with a banner to champion your cause? The latter is relatively easy once you've found the justification and cling to it for all it's worth. Finding a solution is harder and demands more from yourself. What if what I suggest is the real solution? Are you ready to do it in the name of your cause?
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Christ oh dear, of course yours is the real solution. effect a change in the people, the young, they teach it to thiers and they teacfh it to thiers and so on and so forth, but what about NOW what about hte peope living now that need a champion, that need what should be a basic right of life ?fuck em ? its better to give that to thier offsprings offsprings then to find a way to give them equal footing while those changes take affect?Thats asolutely fucing absurd.hey timmy, wait it out, it will get better, not in your life time, not in your grandchildrens, but maybe inthier grandchildrens life youll be on the same ground as me.Thats a crock of shit SOMETHING has to be done NOW to protect the rights of dignity and respect and the means to make a living for everyone with no reguards to what color the skin is, if they ar gay or straight, if they happen to be different.how can society as a whole move forward if we cant do something now while long term changes are made ?if you have a better option for the immediate relief of a fucked cosiety, id love to hear it. dont tell me it wil get better and its better to have ti solved in 200 years then never, what about all the lives and people ruined in those 200 years ? do they not mean shit?if ya got a better solution to that, then spill it. if not then what choice do we have then to legislate shit so that they atleast have a chance ? EDIT: One more thing,someplace in this thread there is an argument over white people speaking for minority people.thats bullshit.In this case its people speaking about basic human race fucking rights. Its not about should blacks be allowed ot have black holidays or should armeniens be allowed to practice praying to thier god or some bullshit argument like that.its about do humans of all racfes have the same rights as all other humans. Anyone of any color, or cloth, should be able, fuck that, IS able to speak out in support of equal rights for all involved.
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"parade down a street with a banner to champion your cause?"You mean causes like equality, harassment from the police, access to education and jobs. The right not to be lynched for looking at the wrong person the wrong way. That's a very cavalier attitude for some very serious issues. For people who have to deal with those kind of forces in their lives its a daily problem, it's not about parades, and is taken far more seriously because the impact to their life is real. It's more than just a quick mental exercise to them.>>>"What if what I suggest is the real solution? Are you ready to do it in the name of your cause?"Hell yes, if I think it'll work and work in timely manner. Let's hear it.
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Somebodies gotta suck it up for awhile if they expect anything to change for good. It's called sacrifice...something the dead WWII vets know about. Problem is that everybody is selfish these days and nobody wants to be the generation that has to do all this. There's your problem. So now we're left with a half-baked solution that can never get better. Great.
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That people discriminate against other groups is because they're selfish? Really? How are you going to fix that, or do we need to get some non-selfish immigrants to fix the institution of how people treat one another?
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I already mentioned it before. Concentrate on yourself and those around you in a kind and gentle manner (something I admit I'm not the best at, but I'm working on it). Decide that you're not going to be racist in that you're not going to allow race, color or creed to come into any determination you make about another person. Think you can do it? You might be surprised...whites, for example, take a lot of racial heat for being white that most non-whites don't even realize they're dishing out.
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Those are noble sentiments, but you're preaching to the choir. Do you have a way to convince real racists to think right?> whites, for example, take a lot of racial heat for being whiteOf course that's true, but are you implying that whites have it as bad as blacks? It's also a virtue to truly understand what other people have gone through, and continue to go through.When was the last time you had a long talk with a black person (or other minority)?
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In reply to:
You might be surprised...whites, for example, take a lot of racial heat for being white that most non-whites don't even realize they're dishing out.
you can't be serious
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The real serious racists will fade away over time...something that laws won't acheive.I speak with a Native American almost daily. I haven't spoken that much to many, which is why I can so easily remember it. I hope to achieve the point where I can't remember if they were black/white/whatever...then I know I'll be where I should be.
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"you can't be serious"Dead serious. You ever seriously consider the possibility, or just dismiss the idea without even stopping to think about it?
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The real serious racists will fade away over time...something that laws won't acheive.I don't know why you believe this. Racism comes and goes in waves. When people feel threatened, they tend to become more nationalistic and racist. You can be sure that Arabs won't have an easy time in this country if Al Qaida blows up another American landmark.I hope you achieve your blindness to the color of people's skin, but be aware that it will be a long time (maybe never) before that's true for everyone. In the mean time, minorities can't be left to hang out to dry. They need jobs, tbey need to be able to stay at hotels, ande they need to be able to go to college.Have you considered that since we evolved (I assume you don't reject that idea) to live in small tribes, and things like the tendency toward prejudice against other groups played a part in the success of the tribes?
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Pftt your white. Who is going to belive you
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You didn't answer the question: Do you think whites are as put-upon as other minorities?
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"Pftt your white. Who is going to belive you"Thank you for helping me make my point.As for who is "put upon" more, I think it depends where you are geographically these days as much as anything else.
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you're funny. you honestly have no idea what a "minority" even has to go through every single day of their lives and you say that? wow. funny. I highly doubt that you're reminded on a constant basis that you're white. From the way you're treated, looked upon, and spoken to. Wow. just wow.
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I'm white and im still a minorty. I dont notice much things about White people.
You wont understand how hard it is to be a minority! I remember the good old days of being a majority...
You never see immigrants get anything, yet we built this whole damn country.