Passed on...

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From Ray Stevens...funny, but too much liberal support for folks like Juan to laugh for too long.________________________________________________________________Date: Jul 11, 2007 10:14 PM This is a REAL INTERVIEW with an illegal Mexican at a Protest March ... This is good! Below is a good example of a discussion with a master of circular logic. Don't be logical, don't respect the truth or your adversary, just say what you think makes a new case when the previous case gets too difficult to defend (practically the definition of a "liberal argument"). On the streets of downtown Houston, May 1, 2006. Jim Moore reporting for a Houston TV Station: Jim: Juan, I see that you and thousands of other protesters are marching in the streets to demonstrate for your cause. Exactly what is your cause and what do you expect to accomplish by this protest? Juan: We want our rights. We will show you how powerful we are. We will bring Houston to its knees! Jim: What rights? Juan: Our right to live here...legally. Our right to get all the benefits you get. Jim: When did you come to the United States ? Juan: Six years ago. I crossed over the Border at night with seven other friends. Jim: Why did you come? Juan: For work. I can earn as much in a month as I could in a year in Mexico. Besides, I get free health care, our Mexican children can go to school free, if I lose my job I will get welfare, and someday I will have the Social Security. Nothing like that In Mexico! Jim: Did you feel badly about breaking our immigration laws when you came? Juan: No! Why should I feel bad? I have a right to be here. I have a right to amnesty. I paid lots of money for my Social Security and Green Cards. Jim: How did you acquire those documents? Juan: From a guy in Dallas. He charged me a lot of money too. Jim: Did you know that those documents were forged? Juan: It is of no matter. I have a right to be here and work. Jim: What is the "right" you speak of? Juan: The right of all aliens. It is found in your Constitution. Read it! Jim: I have read it, but I do not remember it saying anything about rights for aliens. Juan: It is in that part where it says that all men have alien rights, like the right to pursue happiness. I wasn't happy in Mexico , so I came here. Jim: I think you are referring to the Declaration of Independence and that document speaks to unalienable rights .. not alien rights. Juan: Whatever. Jim: Since you are demanding to become an American citizen, why then are you carrying a Mexican Flag? Juan: Because I am Mexican. Jim: But you said you want to be given amnesty ... to become a US citizen. Juan: No. This is not what we want. This is our country, a part of Mexico that you gringos stole from us. We want it returned to its rightful owner. Jim: Juan, you are standing in Texas. After wining the war with Mexico, Texas became a Republic, and later Texans voted to join the USA. It was not stolen from Mexico. Juan: That is a Gringo lie. Texas was Stolen. So was California, New Mexico and Arizona. It is just like all the other stuff you Gringos steal, like oil and babies. You are a country of thieves. Jim: Babies? You think we steal babies? Juan: Sure. Like from Korea and Vietnam and China. I see them all over the place. You let all these foreigners in, but try to keep us Mexicans out. How is this fair? Jim: So, you really don't want to become an American citizen then. Juan: I just want my rights! Everyone Has a right to live, work, and speak their native language wherever and whenever they please. That's another thing we demand. All signs and official documents should be in Spanish. Teachers must teach in Spanish. Soon, more people here in Houston will speak Spanish than English. It is our right! Jim: If I were to cross over the border into Mexico without proper documentation, what rights would I have there? Juan: None. You would probably go to jail, but that's different. Jim: How is it different? You said everyone has the right to live wherever they please. Juan: You Gringos are a bunch of land grabbing thieves. Now you want Mexico too? Mexico has its rights. You Gringos have no rights in Mexico. Why would you want to go there anyway? There is no free medical service, schools, or welfare there for foreigners such as you. You cannot even own land in my country. Stay in the country of your birth. Jim: I can see that there is no way that we can agree on this issue. Thank you for your comments. Juan: Viva Mexico! Pass this along to every American citizen in your address books and to every representative in the state and federal government. If you choose to remain uninvolved, do not be amazed when you no longer have a nation to call your own nor anything you have worked for left since it will be "redistributed" to the activists while you are so peacefully staying out of the "fray". Check history, it is full of nations/empires that disappeared when its citizens no longer held their core beliefs and values. One person CAN make a difference. One plus one plus one plus one plus one plus one........ The battle for our secure borders and immigration laws that actually mean something, however, hasn't even begun. If this ticks YOU off...PASS IT ON

I'm not American ... but I think that is pretty fucked up. Some people.....

Are you claiming this is a REAL interview as is stated in the article? It doesn't seem very real at all.

Fake: http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/interview.asp

Originally Posted By: sdpAre you claiming this is a REAL interview as is stated in the article? It doesn't seem very real at all. Check out Ray Stevens on YouTube...he's more well known for his cute little songs. Since it's second hand, I make no claims for or against it being real...but the point is clearly made.Seventeen states are currently seeking to pass laws similar to the one Arizona passed (wich is actually less harsh than the laws already on the Federal books concerning illegal immigration); none of which would be necessary if Obama stopped making jokes concerning Arizona's new law and started doing his job. Deciding which laws he's going to inforce and which laws he's not isn't in the job description, either. The man's an idiot and needs to be fired.

I'm not sure what point this piece of fiction is supposed to make.

Originally Posted By: IneligibleI'm not sure what point this piece of fiction is supposed to make. I'm not surprised.

I have to agree with u though. Illegal immigration is fucked up. How do they think they can get away with it??

Originally Posted By: thorSince it's second hand, I make no claims for or against it being real...but the point is clearly made.That if you create a fake interview transcript that represents a large group of people in an unfavourable way then you can get what you want? Yup, that point is made loud and clear!You don't seem to be able to understand that if its fake then it is irrelevant and is inventing a point rather than making one. Not to mention that even if this interview was real, it would be the opinion of a single person and not a representation of the group as a whole, a majority or even a large minority. So what are you arguing? That these people are more than welcome as long as they do things legally? Or that they just want to steal your stuff so they can go fuck themselves?

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousYou don't seem to be able to understand that if its fake then it is irrelevant and is inventing a point rather than making one.LOL! And you don't seem to be able to understand that I and others will draw our own conclusions as to what is and is not relevant. Case in point, this "interview" is very relevant in that it accurately portrays the mindset of those who are protesting against Arizona's new immigration law.

Originally Posted By: thorCase in point, this "interview" is very relevant in that it accurately portrays the mindset of those who are protesting against Arizona's new immigration law. Evidence?

Self-evident...for one who lives here, anyway.

Originally Posted By: thor

Self-evident...for one who lives here, anyway.

Oh, of course.

Oh yes teacher, I did my homework... but I left it at home.

Originally Posted By: bobalicious Originally Posted By: thorSelf-evident...for one who lives here, anyway. Oh, of course.Oh yes teacher, I did my homework... but I left it at home. Now-now bob...we both know you never do your homework, and only parrot what you've been taught to think by a bunch of liberals. But here's a guy you might be familiar with who has a few interesting facts. As I always say, follow the money. Talking Points Obama manages to indirectly force Arizona to take action by failing to do his job of securing the borders according to federal legislation that is already on the books. Good job Obama. Then the liberals fund a bunch of folks to make the new Arizona law into a big issue by painting it as some form of nazism...the irony, of course, being that Obama is the closest thing to a nazi this country has ever seen.This "racist piece of legislation" mirrors that of the Federal government that has been on the books for years. Arizona is simply taking matters into its own hands by writing basically the same law as state legislation so they can legally enforce the immigration laws that the Fed refuses to.

That link doesn't seem to work, at least not for me. Could you (or someone) repost it?

Thor, I haven't said whether I agree with the law or not, thats not what this thread is about. You posted a fake interview that portrays illegal immigrants as lazy, freeloading thieves. When it was pointed out to you that it was a fake interview you insisted that it still portrayed them accurately.

I only ask you to show evidence that they are like that. "Its self-evident" is a non-answer. And not just in my opinion, in the real world. My homework comment was pointing out that whether you have the work done (evidence) or not, if you do not present it then it cannot be taken into consideration in the discussion. Its as simple as that.

Illegal immigrants have broken the law. What is it that might make a person (like you) believe that once they've lived here for awhile that they magically become law-abiding citizens? The interview I posted, fake or otherwise, depicts the same liberal mentality folks just like you cling to to justify breaking the law...full of circular arguments, half-truths and outright lies. It's not about one particular illegal immigrant...it's about the attitude of liberals. Though not the most elloquent speaker, she pretty much says it all:

Tucson city council meeting

OK, I'll say it again. I'm not discussing the Arizona Immigration Law. Thats not what this is about. You have posted a false representation of illegal immigrants. Have they broken the law? Yes. Should they be punished? Of course! Fine them, send them home, whatever! You're avoiding the point of this conversation.Both you and that piece of fiction misrepresented illegal immigrants as people who come to the US for the sole purpose of taking advantage of you. This is and has always been my argument! As far as I'm aware, I have no problem with this immigration law that you are trying to shove in my face as justification for your prejudices.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousOK, I'll say it again. I'm not discussing the Arizona Immigration Law. Thats not what this is about.Yes, bob...it is what this is about.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousBoth you and that piece of fiction misrepresented illegal immigrants as people who come to the US for the sole purpose of taking advantage of you. But they DO take advantage of the system. Pregnant women WILL cross the border just to give birth in a US hospital, which they have no money to pay for AND the child is automatically a US citizen. Granted they do come here because they will have a better life, but don't be fooled that they don't know how to take advantage of the system. That is why the states, in particular the southern states bordering Mexico, have such a financial burden. And don't think that I am not aware of the implications of not having this cheap labor available. Growing up we always had illegals working for us on our ranch year round. Without them, life would have been more difficult.

Your original post was a transcript of an interview with an imaginary Mexican. Instead of just creating a new thread and saying "America needs stronger border control", which would have resulted in a large amount (if not all) of the board agreeing with you and engaging in a debate over the methods of doing so, you decided to post this fake interview that creates a prejudiced racial image of the opposition.

So instead of creating a discussion on the Arizona Immigration Law, you have just painted a picture of what an illegal immigrant is in your sheltered little black and white mind.