The Ten Commandments as in the Book of Exodus

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As creationists are more comfortable with the "murder translation, as opposed to the "kill" version, I wanted to know at what fine line the taking of life becomes murder.

"Creationist" is non synonymous with "Judeo-Christian fundamentalist".For more information on where the fundamentalists and biblical scholars stand, google murder versus killing.Ineligible pointed out the commandment translation question in the King James bible. Some argue that having used "kill" rather than "murder" was correct; that the Old English version of "kill" had the intended meaning, but that the meaning of the word has evolved.If God is so clever, I don't understand why he could have had his work translated in a more timeless manner, less subject to the vagaries of language and its evolution. This whole argument could be resolved if we would receive a new version of the scriptures from on high, available in all modern languages. I suppose God finds it more interesting to see people chase their tails arguing over the meaning of words hundreds or thousands of years ol.Come on God, you could solve this problem with a wave of your arms, and straighten out the Koranic disagreements to boot.

You mentioned somewhere recently, Steve, quite correctly, that the Christian view of man is of something corrupted (but note, a very good thing that is corrupted). In fact this applies to the whole creation. Anything put into the creation inevitably is subject to corruption itself, including the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Reversing this by divine fiat would be possible, but it's not God's way. If it were, there would be higher priorities, and scriptures wouldn't be needed anyway.

Quote:including the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Reversing this by divine fiat would be possible, but it's not God's way. Yay! Another reason to plug!Humans have found a way around this silly little rule! http://www.steorn.net - Steorn believe that they have created a perpetual motion machine that defy the Laws of Thermodynamics!

Well then, Ineligible is wrong, and they are God.

Well by current beliefs, the 2nd Law can't actually be counted as a law since there is no way to prove it. Its a negative statement, "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed..." A negative statement cannot be proven (yes, I realise that that is also a negative statement) because there is no proof, only the absence of the alternative. Just because nobody has observed energy being created or destroyed, it doesn't mean that it can't be.

You're thinking of the First Law, which is essentially conservation of energy. Physical laws cannot be deductively proven - they are only inductively supported, by weight of experimental evidence.The Second Law effectively says that information can be destroyed but not created except at the expense of more information (this is the information theory version - it's more usually expressed in terms of entropy, that the total entropy of the universe can increase but not decrease).

Oh darn, got them mixed up. I forgot.

Once again, Ineligible is right, but I want to amplify the idea that science doesn't prove anything. A "law" in science is not a "proof". It is, in effect, a simple version of a theory.The laws of thermodynamics may be totally correct under all conditions, or there may be circumstances where they're not, or maybe one of them can be violated with a probability of once in 50 billion years. Maybe it's more common on the size scale of a quark. We don't know. But so far, ever single claim that has ever been put forth with respect to successfully violating those laws has been shown to be bullsht.That of course does not apply if you're supernatural, as God is, since we're discussing the natural laws.Maybe you can violate them -- if you're inside a black hole.

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Maybe you can violate them -- if you're inside a black hole.

Well you can't actually be inside a black hole because its not really a hole. It has mass and I presume that it is so dense that it couldn't possibley be liquid, gas or even plasma. Not to mention you'd be ripped apart, molecule by molecule, before you ever reached it.

All of that is speculation. Let's go beyond the event horizon and find out.

Originally Posted By: websexinfo

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websexinfo, the rest of the bible illustrates that the ten commandments are to show your incompleteness and helplessness to the sinful nature of man. its meant to bring the contrast between you and Christ. the ten commandments are meant to point you to God and draw you in

I happen to think that the nature of man is good. Does this make me wrong already?

Consider this, the ten commandments were given unto Moses and can be found in the Qur'an, the Old Testament, and was before Jesus Christ.

If we were created in God's image, why would God make Jesus a means of comparison?

pends on your definition of good
everyone likes to believe that they are good, mainly because there is always someone else worse. do you believe that men follow the 10 commandments? i definitely can't, i don't believe anyone can, hence the belief that men aren't good
if you want to define good as singing xmas carols and giving to the salvation army / blood bank, then sure.

we were made in God's image yes. we definitely are not God-like in our actions and thoughts

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pends on your definition of good
everyone likes to believe that they are good, mainly because there is always someone else worse. do you believe that men follow the 10 commandments?

Most people do not follow the ten commandments. Does this make them bad people? My opinion... I don't think so.

Like I said before, I think the ten commandments are too black and white. Just as the idea of good and bad are black and white. But generally, comparison of things seem to be a way of western society and culture. Does this mean that western society and culture is worse than eastern? No, it doesn't. It's just different from what I prefer. I feel that certain things do not work for certain people and what I prefer isn't necessarily the "right" way.

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if you want to define good as singing xmas carols and giving to the salvation army / blood bank, then sure.

In my opinion, an action in itself does not declare good or bad. What is in the heart of the action?

Let's say I were to donate a bunch of stuff to salvation army and the blood bank for the sake of boosting my image, then what does it mean?

What does it mean if I were to do the same things without expectation of recognition or reward?

Although the actions are the same, it takes on a completely different meaning... in my opinion.

I think Albert Einstein said it best when he stated, "Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."

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we were made in God's image yes. we definitely are not God-like in our actions and thoughts

And what does it mean to be God-like. Must I adhere to the ten commandments to achieve this state of being? Do you think what you say is your opinion or do you feel it's fact?

Do you think what you say is your opinion or do you feel it's fact?Where does religions belief fall on that spectrum? I would think firmly on the "fact" end.I don't like the first three commandments, and as for the ninth, I'm can't lie if it results in saving the life of a thousand people?And does a person still have to honor their father and mother, even if if his parents abused him throughout his childhood?You're right about the black-and-white aspect.Why isn't there a commandment that says "Don't own or trade slaves"? I'd definitely trade the "no idols" commandment for that.

i'm not going to keep reposting to 'show' that my opinion is 'correct'. most of what you say is totally your view, and that's fine. you're 100% entitled to your own views.

since you directed questions at me i will reply but i don't want this to be a fling fest of attacks of "my belief" vs "your belief." i apologise if it has come off like this.

you ask me if what i say is 'fact' or not. i'm not sure to which part you are referring to. whatever part you're referring to, i could only try to show it is 'fact' via the bible, to which you probably don't believe as 'fact' (most people don't...). its impossible to show that someones religious beliefs are 'fact'...

regarding you're what is at the heart of 'action' etc, then you're exactly right on the money. Christianity is about belief rather than action. a person is only sanctified by their belief in Christ oppose to their actions. a really important verse of the bible is ephesians 2:8; For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God --- not by works, so that no one can boast.

It's not by works, not by actions.

and to answer you're last question, what does it mean to be God-like, do you really care what i think it means / my answer would be?
to be God-like would to be 100% perfect. pick up a bible and read about Jesus' life, if you can mimic Him 100%, you are God-like.
if you were referring to previous post about being in the image of God (God-like), then no one can answer as no one has seen Gods true image (except for 1 guy in the old testament). you can draw you're own conclusion, like you can about anything.

i'm not here to explain Christianity or my views or whatever, i just saw this thread as people not understanding what the point of the ten commandments are. if anyone actually wants to know something about the law (ten commandments), try reading the book of romans, galatians or hebrews in the new testament. not my opinion, but the word of God.

try reading the book of romans, galatians or hebrews in the new testament. not my opinion, but the word of God. In which language did God communicate? I'd hate to get hung up on a translation error.

Quote:since you directed questions at me i will reply but i don't want this to be a fling fest of attacks of "my belief" vs "your belief." i apologise if it has come off like this.lol. Do you feel that I am attacking you? If that is the case, then you can let your guard down. I ask a lot of questions about things I don't understand. It's that simple. If you felt like I was attacking you, I apologize.Quote:you ask me if what i say is 'fact' or not. i'm not sure to which part you are referring to. whatever part you're referring to, i could only try to show it is 'fact' via the bible, to which you probably don't believe as 'fact' (most people don't...). its impossible to show that someones religious beliefs are 'fact'...Quote:if anyone actually wants to know something about the law (ten commandments), try reading the book of romans, galatians or hebrews in the new testament. not my opinion, but the word of God.The bible is subject to interpretation, don't you agree?Quote:and to answer you're last question, what does it mean to be God-like, do you really care what i think it means / my answer would be?If I did not care, I would not ask.Quote:to be God-like would to be 100% perfect. pick up a bible and read about Jesus' life, if you can mimic Him 100%, you are God-like.Just a thought I had. If I were to mimic someone else completely, even Jesus himself, wouldn't that make me less like God? This is assuming that God is not mimicing one person all the time.

If you could perform miracles, you would be more god-like.

I agree with that.

I can convince girls to make-out with each other. Does that count as a miracle?