Stirring some shit with a BIG spoon

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We have had all this out before, we know whos on what side, I am once again stirring that pot, but this time Ill do it from a new angle. visit a few linsk for me would you? This one first. Then this one and then this one When I get around to it Ill make and post my own sinful video, just because I want the movie, and Im too stingy to pay for it when I can get it free. I mean shit Im not scared, Im already part of those who do not and refuse to belive, so it really doesnt make a shit of difference aside from saving me 30 bucks plus s&h. but they do offer a way to buy that video if your not willing to give it all up and get it for free.Are you a nonbeliver ? would you make the video and post it ? if nt why? If you are a beliver shouldnt you be watching the movie as a research subject into the enemy you need to convert? If nto why?Is anyone that belives afraid that if they see it they wont be able to sustain thier belief?Just curious.You can save your fingers from typing that Im damned and Ill burn and blah blah blah blah, Im not afraid.

Yes, stirring of the shit using a very large spoon is a good way to put it. lol

My spoon as a motor attached

If your a christian, and want to see the movie for study, for education or what the hell ever reason then the site suggests:Open our contact form, and select "FREE DVD OFFER" Provide a link to your myspace profile, facebook profile, christian website profile, any means that we can use to confirm you are a Christian. (failure to do this will likely result in a dismissed request) Answer one question: "If you were given proof that your god doesn't exist, would you accept it, or would you continue to believe?" Provide your address in the contact box. Your address will never be given out, it will be used only by our mailing department, however we reserve the right to publicly display your myspace, facebook, or other online profile to show the audience how many people received a free DVD in addition to possibly opening up a dialogue amongst other freethinkers.-----------------------------------------------------------------The next link Ill give you goes further, view it at http://www.rationalresponders.com from there you can see on the left side the bit that offers you to:Defend your God!Think you can show why your belief in a God is rational? We are now accepting requests from theists to talk to us on our show. Send a message to us via our contact form.Now what ya say? those that would like to can now personally attack those that think it a crock.Cummon, click the links, you knwo you want to...FUCK why is there no devil emote? sumbitch! Im too lazy to post a pic on osme site then reference it here to make my own emote, damn it ! this just istn as much fun for me with no evil red devil face to place at teh end of it.

Anyone who's read the (shit-) stirring stuff I've written on the subject knows where I stand. I'd advise anyone who puts up a video like that to start wearing a bullet-proof vest and get a remote starter for their car. Some people don't react well to having their beliefs publicly questioned.

The only part of this that I see asbeing a big deal, atleast to me, is that it targets youth, Now if there are kids thta are in high school, I dont worry about them, but I went through shit, dug around, for a long time actually, they have a chat radio program, I talked to them there, they see it as fine since christians target youth. I personally think ya leave kids the fuck alone, they can figure it out later, after life lessons have been learned some, after they figure out what makes sense and have seen examples. I agree about the other stuff though, there is plenty of hate for people who make public the thoughts and beliefs on god, many people have been killed for jsut such reasons, and wars launched over it. Ther is always some goofy asshole just down the street or around the block willing to kill for jesus, to make an example of you.

I don't know how many people would actually kill an abortion doctor, but there are a lot of people who support the idea.

There is also alot of people that have tried. Look at the criminal acts of peta, and thats just animal rights, fuck with someones god, thats real trouble.

well, i think its good to target the youth, I mean, we're young, impresionable, hte christians do it, why shouldnt the athiests? the way i see it, If he is god, he will forgive me my disbelief, and if he doesnt, then he is no god

Your reply reminded me of one of my mostest favoritest quotes ever.

"Shake off the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact and every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of God, for if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blind faith"
Thomas Jefferson

Yeah...heard about this one already. As for trying to "convert/save" such people it's not within my power to do so...so why bother watching the video?You can equate the whole thing to a poker game...there are those who hold a good hand, those who bluff, and those who are always betting they'll get a better hand next shuffle of the deck. But none of them really know ahead of time the outcome of the game we call life...no matter how much they may try and convince you otherwise. But if you play long enough, the game always gets raided. I cast my bet on the game getting raided. That's a sure bet.

no matter how much they may try and convince you otherwise.I've never heard a fundamentalist say this sort of thing and mean it. If you push a bit, you always get something like, "Well, that applies to you, not me."> But if you play long enough, the game always gets raided. I cast my bet on the game getting raided. That's a sure bet.See?!?!? It's nothing but a mealy-mouthed way of saying "I'm right, you're wrong, prepare to burn forever."The problem with your idea is that there is nothing but faith to go by. Period. Your belief is an arbitrary one, and is likely to be as wrong as any other faith.It's a travesty that such things are shoved down the throats of kids with a plunger. I wonder what a kid's chance of being beat (oh, I'm sorry, I mean "spanked") is for refusing to go with the sheep (I'm sorry, I mean "family") to church on Sunday.

Steve, have some tolerance. Not everyone who is religious forces it down the throats of other people. I myself am I christian and I don't go around preaching to people they are going to hell if they don't believe. It's not my place nor any of my business.I'm just tired of people like you clump all of us religious people in the same basket. If you don't believe, that's fine nor will I try and change your opinion because it's YOUR business, but you should have the same respect back to not bash my religion just because you don't agree with it because its MY business that I believe.And I was never spanked as a child for not going to church. It was always my option if I wanted to go or not, and I usually always wanted to go... it was my own free will.

My decision is arbitrary to you...not to me. And as long as your mind is closed to the possibility, it will most certainly remain arbitrary to you. Certainly Sir Isaac Newton thought he understood it all...until somebody named Einstein came along refusing to accept that that's all there was to the way things worked. Have you ever read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"?

Neither of those physicists based their discoveries on the content of the bible, which is a scientific no-op. Science evolves over time and converges on the truth. And it's not as if relativity is the end of the story either. In any case, you don't use relativistic and quantum physics when you calculate the trajectory of a cannon shell. But I digress.I don't know what was in Newton's head, and whether or not he thought his system of mechanics was the end of the story. If he did, he was wrong; no modern scientist would think that way. Einstein understood that his system was not the end of the road.I'd like to meet a fundamentalist who believes that about his own beliefs, but such a creature does not exist. Your mind is far more closed than mine is, since you actually have chosen an arbitrary system of beliefs, and reject out-of-hand and and all others; do you think the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. might be right?You just don't want to see it. Maybe it's just a very uncomfortable place for you to go. Your system of beliefs is irrational, arbitrary, and based on nothing but your faith. It's no more likely to be correct than Buddhism.The really sad thing about it, though, is the underlying mindset it betrays. George W. Bush thinks Jesus talks to him, and that he's doing God's work. How do you reason with a person who thinks like that? If it's true, it's too bad that Jesus is a war monger with a piss-poor ability to strategize. Maybe Buddha or Thor (not you) would be a better choice.But whenever things go wrong, your answer will be that it's God's will, and we don't understand the mind of God. In reality, if he's behind a lot of what goes on, your faith is in a criminally insane magical creature.It's too bad that irrational insanity is shoved down the throats of kids who are too young to make reasoned judgments. They're brainwashed just as they move out of the Santa Clause and Easter Bunny phase of their lives, ripe for another system of magical thinking.The result of that are things like a war that kills scores of thousands of people and drains the treasury, justifications for slavery (which the bible fully endorses), and other things that are destructive to our civilization. But hey, what the hell, you have all the answers, no need to research anything. God guides you, so what could go wrong?

Intentionally or not, you miss the point.What you, again, fail to understand is that my beliefs are not arbitrary to me...only to you. Once you can wrap your mind around this you'll understand where I'm comming from.Let's say, for example, you witness something that causes you to believe in the Easter Bunny. Perhaps it was a rabbit running all over the yard hiding eggs...whatever. Then you go to somebody else and tell them the Easter Bunny is real. Are they gonna buy it because of what YOU saw? Probably not. Again...arbitrary to you, but not to me. I "saw it".

Quote:What you, again, fail to understand is that my beliefs are not arbitrary to me...only to you. Once you can wrap your mind around this you'll understand where I'm comming from.It's not arbitrary if you are the universe. Look up the word solipsism to understand where I'm coming from.Quote:Let's say, for example, you witness something that causes you to believe in the Easter Bunny. Perhaps it was a rabbit running all over the yard hiding eggs...whatever. Then you go to somebody else and tell them the Easter Bunny is real. Are they gonna buy it because of what YOU saw? Probably not. Again...arbitrary to you, but not to me. I "saw it".So finally we come to an agreement. Belief in the Easter Bunny is as valid and sensible as belief in Jesus, or belief in any sort of magic.So if a pathological liar tells you something, it's true (in they way you've tortured the meaning of truth), since he fully believes what he's telling you?Truth is very plastic indeed. You can just believe away the laws of physics, and perhaps fly across the country without an airplane.Isn't it funny, though, where faith hits a brick wall when it meets the real world? All those faith healers, yet I've never heard of a missing limb being regenerated by God. Does God hate amputees?

God answers all prayers. Sometimes, the answer is "No". Perhaps curing an amputee causes something else to happen to them? Perhaps God has to follow the laws God used when creating the universe? If you are one who will see God after you die, perhaps you can ask God yourself. I don't pretend to know all the answers.

"So finally we come to an agreement. Belief in the Easter Bunny is as valid and sensible as belief in Jesus, or belief in any sort of magic."Wrong. Validity and sensibility don't come into the equation at all...they are judgement systems that have no application in this instance. You either witness it for yourself, or you don't. That's the point I'm getting at.

I'm glad we finally came to the agreement that your beliefs are qualitatively no different than belief in the Easter Bunny. I wasn't sure that we'd ever find any common ground.> God answers all prayers.Or God answers no prayers. Or God doesn't exist. All equally valid.It's funny how people insist on seeing patterns in their beliefs, where random processes are taking place. If something good happens (e.g., the boulder misses your head), God gets the credit. If something bad happens, God doesn't get the blame. Yet God has the power to stop all bad things from happening, doesn't he?We don't know what's going on in the minds of serial killers and other sociopaths. Maybe we just don't understand them, just as we don't understand the mind of God. Perhaps we should just leave them alone.It's nice that we live in a world of free will, although we were "created" to screw up a lot. Devout Christians screw up as much as anyone else, so that belief system hasn't been the solution to mankind's ills. But what kind of "free will" is it when God knows a priori every detail of everything that will ever happen? If God really is in control, then you believe in a being of boundless evil. You can try to explain away why good people die in horrible, painful, lingering ways, but your doing nothing more than explaining away the actions of a criminal. You're soft on crime.