Originally Posted By: HClIt's also a bit arrogant, as a fallible human, reading the writings of other fallible human, to accept what is written without question.As I've mentioned before, it's more than just a bit arrogant to think we, as fallable humans, are able to figure out the workings of the universe all by ourselves. Kind of like stubborn children who won't listen to the experience and knowledge of their parents. (Unfortunately, rebelliousness often carries over into adulthood...looking for something new to rebel against.) Quote:The day I stop questioning is the day I am, for any useful intents and purposes, dead. Agreed. However, if one asks questions, one must be willing to entertain answers that they don't necessarily want to hear. The universe was not created based on our own self-centered ideas as to how is should be.
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Proof God Exists
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Originally Posted By: thorThe universe was not created based on our own self-centered ideas as to how is should be.Just as the universe wan not created based on our own self-centred ideas as to how we want it to be.I'll take truth over comfort, thank you very much.
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Quote:The day I stop questioning is the day I am, for any useful intents and purposes, dead.oh buddy... someone is laughing his head off right now. oh em geeeeeeeeeeeeeee scary stuff my dudes... scary stuff. dang.
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Scary how? It seems that the figurative wheels come off the cart when people stop questioning. We believe everything the government says, we get...(I'm sure you can fill in the blank). We get the dark ages. Progress ceases. The Sun continues to orbit the Earth.If you don't question, then you are intellectually dead. You are just existing, like an ear of corn.
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I'm not getting into this with you. You brought this upon yourself. But seriously, you need to choose your words more carefully. You could have said "when I win a quintillion dollars" "win I turn orange, green, and blue naturally while my head grows money" or just for perks "when I get saved" but you had to use death.
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Originally Posted By: thor
Originally Posted By: HCl
It's also a bit arrogant, as a fallible human, reading the writings of other fallible human, to accept what is written without question.
As I've mentioned before, it's more than just a bit arrogant to think we, as fallable humans, are able to figure out the workings of the universe all by ourselves. Kind of like stubborn children who won't listen to the experience and knowledge of their parents. (Unfortunately, rebelliousness often carries over into adulthood...looking for something new to rebel against.)
Are you saying it was arrogant for Copernicus to posit that the Earth orbits the Sun rather than the converse? Is it arrogant to strive to explain the functioning of the natural world and universe? If not, then where do you draw the line? Is the problem for you that science and your religion sometimes come into conflict?If you understand science, you realize that it never claims to prove anything. As experiments are done and observations are made, science points in a direction, and over time, converges on the the truth. The process can go on for a very long time. Look at the progression from Newtonian mechanics onward. Is it arrogant to design, build, and fly an airplane based on the engineering principals derived from science?
If you choose to dispense with science, that is your prerogative. But to then saying that your faith-based biblical explanations of natural phenomena are correct is absolutely the height of arrogance. If you think some things can't be explained, fine. Saying, "we just don't know" would be principled position. But then to say that what you believe is it, end of story, is the height of arrogance.
Originally Posted By: thor
Originally Posted By: HCl
The day I stop questioning is the day I am, for any useful intents and purposes, dead.
Agreed. However, if one asks questions, one must be willing to entertain answers that they don't necessarily want to hear. :wink:The flaw in your thinking is that you think you have the answers, with precious little evidence to back you up. Any arbitrary story to explain the functioning of the universe would be as valid as yours. Your beliefs preclude inquiry. Why bother searching if we have the answers already? And maybe the search itself will be offensive to the deity, and maybe the searchers should be persecuted, because we don't want to offend the deity...and we're right back to the Dark Ages.
Originally Posted By: thor
The universe was not created based on our own self-centered ideas as to how is should be.
That does apply to your religion's ideas on the matter as well. It was written in a book, so it must be true. Period.I'm sorry, no.
Science has gathered and continues to gather evidence. Hypotheses are made and theories are formed. If you think science has definitive answers, then you don't understand what science is.
If you just can't live without definitive answers, and then come up with a faith-based explanation to make life bearable, then intellectually you are skating on very thin ice.
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Originally Posted By: JapanFan14I'm not getting into this with you. You brought this upon yourself. But seriously, you need to choose your words more carefully. You could have said "when I win a quintillion dollars" "win I turn orange, green, and blue naturally while my head grows money" or just for perks "when I get saved" but you had to use death. I'm sorry, I don't know what I brought upon myself, and I'm not sure what you're getting at.If I lived in a world where I couldn't or wouldn't question things and try to understand how things work, then my intellectual life would be a barren dessert. I suppose visceral pleasures (sex, eating, etc.) would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough, at least for me.Your mileage may vary.
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Sigh.. listen. Don't confuse me with the people you argue with all the time ok? I'm not trying to get into your "deep thinking" tactics. I don't care what you're discussing. There's nothing wrong with questioning. I'm just advising you to choose your words more carefully.
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Originally Posted By: JapanFan14
Sigh.. listen. Don't confuse me with the people you argue with all the time ok? I'm not trying to get into your "deep thinking" tactics. I don't care what you're discussing. There's nothing wrong with questioning. I'm just advising you to choose your words more carefully.
That's like telling me to "be cute" or Homer telling his TV to "be funny". I see what you are saying but I don't understand what you mean. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here.Some people would not want to live if they were forced to live out their lives in prison. They value their freedom that much. I would not want to live if I were forced to exist inside an intellectual box, a metaphorical prison that might be worse than a real one.
Are you questioning my values?
(Is "deep thinking" bad, or is it only bad if it's in quotes?)
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Are you Steve?If not, you gotta be related to him somehow...
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ok im not getting into this but im curious and my memory isnt the best thing in the world with some things, but thor, were you here when steve was here? seems like he was banned before you showed up
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seems like he was banned before you showed up nope
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people think hes steve?hmm.. hard to say really.
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hard to say really. Not really.
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Originally Posted By: thorAre you Steve?If not, you gotta be related to him somehow... Dude, I was soo thinking the same thing.
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Originally Posted By: RadSteveA is definitely is not my guess.A returning old member, yes. Who? I have no clue.My first, rather ameteurish guess was LTTA. Nah...LTTA (or whoever he is this week) never sounded half as intelligent as HCL.
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rather ameteurish guess was LTTA. Get serious.. As if LTTA could carry an argument like that
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I think we've developed a new definition around here.Any truth that might not be flattering to someone is now called harsh.
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THAAAANKS ALOT! now thatll be a euphemism for sex.... "harsh me baby HAAARSSHH MEE!!!"
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i like to "say" fuck but i prefer making loveand yes we do but we need funny ones like pork me.