Athiests try this on for size...

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Originally Posted By: Saya

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself

So is there really any point??

Yep there is one.........he wants to preach us his way of thinking........which he thinks is the only thing thats right or true and without even giving proof. He hasnt told me where the heaven is yet.......I am still waiting to note down the address so I can interview God.

No. My point is that athiests believe life formed here on its own without any external involvment. I'm not saying it didn't happen that way...but I am saying that there is no proof it happened that way. In fact, there is nothing to suggest it did happen that way beyond a very sketchy hypothesis. You can believe however you want...but it must be aknowledge that there is a faith-based aspect to athiesm...making it nothing more than just another religion. That's why it's so important for liberal athiests to insure kids are taught all the theories and hypothesis their religion is based on in our schools as facts. They've been successful so far...as evidenced by the attitudes in this thread. Athiesm must be recognized for what it is (a religion) and expelled from our public schools just like any other religion.

Alright here's the deal..........give me a lab and everything I need to do my experiments, it will cost you anywhere from 50 million to a few billion dollars...........I will create as many life forms as you want...........I am very confident I can do it.........and I swear I will make it from scratch like the "soup" no cloning or mail orders necessary.Let me know when the lab and the money is ready.........I will prove it before your own eyes.But you should show me who or what "god" is too.

Originally Posted By: OldFolksLet me know when you get it, Saya. I have a few choice words Mr. Omnipotent. Yep sure ..........but thor isnt willing to give it to me pouting

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself

But still even if man was able to create life, that doesn't prove that we were not created by God... just means we have advanced intellectually.

If that's what you believe, that's fine. I believe there's something more to life than our scientists have yet realized...if they will ever do so at all. But we're getting off track. My original point is that there is no evidence to suggest life began all by itself here on earth. And if nature can't do it with mans help, how could you ever expect nature to do it alone?

School can not waste it's limited recourses teaching every theory, on any given subject, that comes along. Long and short of it, we teach the theory that has the most validation by means of scientific scrutiny. Evolution is the best theory to the present showing the most consistent results and that is why it is taught. That doesn't mean it's perfect, that doesn't mean it's fact, it simply means it's the best most well performing explanation we have to date.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself

Originally Posted By: Saya

And none of the holy books state when microbes were formed (cos they didnt have microscopes at that time).

Nor that Dinosaurs ever roamed the earth, but obviously they did :wink:

:grin: Yep........another point.

(**achoo** sorry my cold's getting worse)

Originally Posted By: SayaAlright here's the deal..........give me a lab and everything I need to do my experiments, it will cost you anywhere from 50 million to a few billion dollars...........I will create as many life forms as you want...........I am very confident I can do it.........and I swear I will make it from scratch like the "soup" no cloning or mail orders necessary.Let me know when the lab and the money is ready.........I will prove it before your own eyes.But you should show me who or what "god" is too. Well that's a safe bet to make as I certainly don't have that kind of scratch lying around.As for showing you who or what God is, you don't realize how tall an order that is. And if you're expecting me to point to somebody or some thing, you're going to be disappointed in that regard.Are you familiar with a book called "Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance" by Pirsig?

Originally Posted By: thor Originally Posted By: SayaAlright here's the deal..........give me a lab and everything I need to do my experiments, it will cost you anywhere from 50 million to a few billion dollars...........I will create as many life forms as you want...........I am very confident I can do it.........and I swear I will make it from scratch like the "soup" no cloning or mail orders necessary.Let me know when the lab and the money is ready.........I will prove it before your own eyes.But you should show me who or what "god" is too. Well that's a safe bet to make as I certainly don't have that kind of scratch lying around. Fine I will give you some myself........how about that? Raising funds and stuff? Quote:As for showing you who or what God is, you don't realize how tall an order that is.Just like your order to show you what really happened "evolution".  Quote:And if you're expecting me to point to somebody or some thing, you're going to be disappointed in that regard.Oh really?........then why do you wanna pest us about we showing you what evolution is.......cos you will be disappointed too you know........but if you agree on the lab deal and with experimentation I will show it to you, I swear on it........... or wait till I finish my studies.........I am gonna change a lot of things if I escape the hell hole I am in right now. Quote:Are you familiar with a book called "Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance" by Pirsig? I am more into books of Martial arts, Autopsy, Algebra, Genetics, Geology, Software Programming, Advanced Physics and things like.I got no time to fool around with stuff like Zen and Yoga and 24 hrs in a day arent enough for me to reach my goals either.

Originally Posted By: SayaI got no time to fool around with stuff like Zen and Yoga and 24 hrs in a day arent enough for me to reach my goals either. It obviously isn't what you think.

Originally Posted By: Saya

Oh really?........then why do you wanna pest us about we showing you what evolution is.......cos you will be disappointed too you know........
I thoroughly agree.

And in regards to school, first, they can't completely banish religion all together, you can pray if you want, they just can't teach it.

And like Scotty said, science isn't perfect, and it evolves every day. It's the best thing we've got going, because otherwise, the majority of us would be wandering around like chickens with our heads cut off. There needs to be more to prove these things beside the Bible alone, in my opinion. I don't like the answer to "Why do sodium and chlorine react so violently?" to be "It just does." Hell, without science, and first, alchemy, we wouldn't even know what those elements were!

Also, how do you know that man didn't do it with natures help? With at least 4 really rich countries, and their gov't's trying to come up with the "Super Soldier", how do you know that Genome Soldiers haven't been made yet?

Originally Posted By: LuvMyCatsAlso, how do you know that man didn't do it with natures help? With at least 4 really rich countries, and their gov't's trying to come up with the "Super Soldier", how do you know that Genome Soldiers haven't been made yet? As I've already said, I don't know that life didn't begin all its own here...but there isn't any proof it did. Only a hypothesis based on something they claim occurred naturally, all by itself, but can't get to happen even with a lot of help in the lab.As for super-soldier, who knows...but that would be gene manipulation anyway.

Originally Posted By: thorIt obviously isn't what you think. yep I do know.........I am not the kind "to be in the moment, the Zen way".I am more of the type who will only pay attention to whats needed to be done in repairing a motorcycle and finishing ASAP so I can get back home on time or throw the damn thing and walk. and i am not the kind to ride a bike cross country, either. Racing--yes.....touring--nope.If your idea is the harmonious way of life.......the idea that rationality and Zen-like "being in the moment" can harmoniously coexist........you shouldnt have posted such questions in the first place.I told you before that these things get heated when discussed and I even backed out of "flat earth society" thread cos I didnt wanna cause heated debates.And you point me to a Zen book with a motorcycle.

It is wildly apparent you have not read this book, nor do you have any idea what's in it. There's a bit of "zen" flavor to it, but it has nothing to do with religion...at least not directly. Try reading it before making further comment...or at least find out what it's about. It's partly in answer to your question about God...so, in a way, you asked for it.

Oh Thor. After all the time I've been gone, it's good to see you haven't let up on your holy war one bit.

I said I wanna "SEE" god.........not read about him in a book.SHOW ME WHERE GOD IS OR GIVE ME THE ADDRESS. OR AGREE ON DOING THE EXPERIMENTS WITH ME AND OTHER RESEARCHERS.Thats my final word. Agree to any one of these offers........or shut the hell up.

Thor, there is no point in my replying to your derisory reply to me. Attempting to argue with you is like trying to discuss Plato with a baboon, but without the flashes of intelligence. As far as you are concerned, you cannot be convinced because you have so totally shut your brain that no glimpse of any truth that doesn't fit with your mindset can enter it - not even from the Bible. It's on record that you asked for things, got them, and then couldn't even acknowledge that they existed. You don't understand the difference between truth and falsehood, and instead of serving the Author of Truth you do the work of the Father of Lies. I can imagine you at the Pearly Gates telling St Peter how he has got things wrong and you won't go in until he acknowledges his mistakes.As far as everyone else goes, I think things are pretty clear. My main concern is that readers will think from this thread that to have a mind open to new ideas and capable of learning, to have a brain that still works, an appreciation of logic, or any intellectual honesty, it is necessary to be an atheist. I urge that it is not so. Unfortunately, thor is not alone, but he is in a small minority. Most Christians value honest enquiry.

Originally Posted By: IneligibleMy main concern is that readers will think from this thread that to have a mind open to new ideas and capable of learning, to have a brain that still works, an appreciation of logic, or any intellectual honesty, it is necessary to be an atheist. I urge that it is not so. Unfortunately, thor is not alone, but he is in a small minority. Most Christians value honest enquiry. I completely agree, as an atheist I have a great amount of respect for a fair few Christians. Dr. Ken Miller, a strong Catholic and one of the worlds leading evolutionary scientists. And, of course, yourself Ineligible. I have a massive amount of respect for you.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousAnd, of course, yourself Ineligible. I have a massive amount of respect for you. How could you not?

Nice!Sugoi, sugoi!

Originally Posted By: IneligibleI think things are pretty clear. My main concern is that readers will think from this thread that to have a mind open to new ideas and capable of learning, to have a brain that still works, an appreciation of logic, or any intellectual honesty, it is necessary to be an atheist. I urge that it is not so.Being an theist has nothing to do with discussion on evolution or any other scientific topic, but every discussion should be taken with an open mind. Faith and belief has its place and science has its own. Quote: Unfortunately, thor is not alone, but he is in a small minority.Well there are many like him in world (and from different religions as well) and just as single minded as him. Quote:Most Christians value honest enquiry. Yes thats true........even other religions as well. I have known many people from all walks of life who accept change and follow their religion as well.........including scientists and researchers. I have respected their views and I really like them cos they have open minds.They dont rub their religious views on others faces like thor does or irritate other people with different views.I am an atheist but I love celebrating all festivals (of different religions) baking a Christmas cake is my favorite time of the year and there many other too but I would'nt wanna post it here........though I dont do it for religious purpose, its just that I like spreading a little happiness around and take a stand against people who think a person of one religion or belief shouldnt celebrate other religions' festivals.......and I have already been issued warnings from a few religious groups due to my way of life.I know one day someone will just chop my head off or shoot me in my head for what I do but if any person can get the message "every human being is a part of a big family, no matter what color, what race, what religion they are from"..........I dont mind losing my life.I have a lot of respect for you Pete.......and it keeps increasing.