Pro-Life Advocates, Secretly Masters of Irony?

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8077021.stmDr. George Tiller, a doctor whose clinic specialised in late-term abortions, was shot down in his church.I'm sorry but those who believe that the days of Christians killing for Jesus are over, you really need to take a better look at your society. Killing a doctor, not only as a punishment for his actions, but also as a way to scare other doctors from performing abortions is called TERRORISM.I'm obviously not saying anything about all Christians are terrorists or in any way like this, just as I would never say that all Muslims are terrorists. This is just to highlight the unlawful, terrifying, holier-than-thou actions that religion seems to allow, either through direct commandment or personal interpretation. (Also, this goes out to Chance who wanted a new thread.)

I don't believe in God but feel the doctor deserved death. He was human waste.

Would you have killed him yourself?

I think it's a stretch to say that religion allows that.

Its all a question of interpretation and that horrible thing known as belief.There's a logical path that says, if you really, really, really believe that your God, whoever it is, wants you to do something, and you'll go to heaven, you'll go to Paradise if you do it, then it's possible for an entirely logical, rational person to do hideous things.

It's a bit unfair to blame a religion that specifically condemns what was done in one of the Ten Commandments.

I have been forced to kill for something with less purpose.

It's basically the same concept as Neo-Nazis bombing synagogues and murdering blacks, hispanics, and middle easterns. Terrorism or do they call that domestic terrorism.

This world is imperfect. Not much one could do about that =/

But my point is that what was done was justified by the person who committed it by their religion.

See, that's the thing with people that say they do things in God's name. God would never do that, it's just people doing what they really want to do, and finding a convent out.BUT, who says it was justified? Who's to say, that maybe their logic line was.... abortion dr + gun w/ bullet + me shoot the gun = me go to hell? Worth it.....How do you know that's not what they thought?Further....  Originally Posted By: bob There's a logical path that says, if you really, really, really believe that your God, whoever it is, wants you to do something, and you'll go to heaven, you'll go to Paradise if you do it, then it's possible for an entirely logical, rational person to do hideous things. The people that think that, usually have complexes, themselves. A true religious person, Christian, Catholic, Jew, Muslim, whatever, would KNOW that killing someone for ANY reason is immoral, unethical, and "illegal" (God's laws, not just human) and even if you THINK God would want it done, He doesn't.

Some people are just way too fucked up!!! They take their beliefs way too far.Some people may see what he did as disgraceful... but I dont see it that way. He really did help many people.

You are so right Luv.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousBut my point is that what was done was justified by the person who committed it by their religion. Last I heard, although the police were questioning a suspect, no-one had been even named as believed to be the killer, which would make it hard to know what his justification was. Do you have better information?

Some folks use religious beliefs as an excuse to do what they want...while some folks use any excuse they can find to lambast said religion. Both sound like the same kind of person to me.

Christ Kills Two, Injures Seven In Abortion-Clinic Attack

New Surprising Results on Abortion and Religiosity By LiveScience Staffposted: 01 June 2009 09:50 am ETThe killing of an abortion provider on Sunday raises again the extreme potential consequences of the nation's schism on this topic. It's a tough issue to reconcile on a personal level too, and a new study on the effects of religiosity on the decision to have an abortion reveals more inconsistencies.Unwed pregnant teens and 20-somethings who attend or have graduated from private religious schools are more likely to obtain abortions than their peers from public schools, according to research in the June issue of the Journal of Health and Social Behavior."This research suggests that young, unmarried women are confronted with a number of social, financial and health-related factors that can make it difficult for them to act according to religious values when deciding whether to keep or abort a pregnancy," said the study’s author, sociologist Amy Adamczyk of John Jay College of Criminal Justice and the Graduate Center, City University of New York.(George Tiller, a 67-year-old physician who had long been targeted by anti-abortion activists, was shot and killed Sunday while attending church in Wichita, Kan.)Adamczyk examined how personal religious involvement, schoolmate religious involvement and school type influenced the pregnancy decisions of a sample of 1,504 unmarried and never-divorced women age 26 and younger from 125 different schools. The women ranged in age from 14 to 26 at the time they discovered they were pregnant. Twenty-five percent of women in the sample reported having an abortion, a likely underestimate, Adamczyk said.As a group, the women in Adamczyk's sample are less likely to abide by their religious beliefs, she said. "They have already had premarital sex, and women who are engaging in riskier sex behaviers (i.e. more partners, a one-night stand, etc.) are more likely to end up in the predicment of being pregnant and unmarried," she said. "However, when faced with this incredible decision, things like education and future aspiriations simply appear to matter more," Adamczyk told LiveScience. Later in life, women might be more inclined to carry a pregnancy to term, perhaps for religious reasons, she said. Religion might have a greater influence on one's decisions when school and career aspirations have already been achieved or are moving along well. Results revealed no significant link between a young woman's reported decision to have an abortion and her personal religiosity, as defined by her religious involvement, frequency of prayer and perception of religion's importance. Adamczyk said that this may be partially explained by the evidence that personal religiosity delays the timing of first sex, thereby shortening the period of time in which religious women are sexually active outside of marriage.Despite the absence of a link between personal religious devotion and abortion, religious affiliation did have some important influence. Adamczyk found that conservative Protestants (which includes evangelicals and fundamentalist Christians) were the least likely to report having an abortion, less likely than mainline Protestants, Catholics and women with non-Christian religious affiliations."On the other hand, simply attending church or finding religion important does not appear to shape a young unmarried woman's abortion decisions," Adamczyk said. "But many very liberal-minded people who seem themselves as prochoice still attend church."Regarding the impact of the religious involvement of a woman's peers, Adamczyk found no significant influence. However, Adamczyk did find that women who attended school with conservative Protestants were more likely to decide to have an extramarital baby in their 20s than in their teenage years."The values of conservative Protestant classmates seem to have an abortion limiting effect on women in their 20s, but not in their teens, presumably because the educational and economic costs of motherhood are reduced as young women grow older," Adamczyk said.Despite Adamczyk's finding that rates of reported abortions were higher for young women educated at private religious schools, the type of religious school was not a factor: Catholic schools had similar rates as other religious schools."Religious school attendance is not necessarily indicative of conservative religious beliefs because students attend these schools for a variety of reasons," Adamczyk said. "These schools tend to generate high levels of commitment and strong social ties among their students and families, so abortion rates could be higher due to the potential for increased feelings of shame related to an extramarital birth."Data for this study came from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health), a three-wave school-based study of the health-related behaviors of students in grades 7 to 12 at the time of the first wave. Adamczyk analyzed data from the first and third waves of Add Health, the first wave taking place from 1994 to 1995 and the third wave being completed between 2001 and 2002. The Add Health program project was funded by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, along with several other agencies.

Scott Philip Roeder has been charged with first-degree murder and two accounts of aggravated assault. He had a Christian fish symbol on the rear of his car with the word 'Jesus' inset. He was a subscriber to Prayer & Action News, a magazine that advocated justifiable homicide. He is quoted as saying on an anti-abortion website, "It seems as though whats happening is Kansas could be compared to the lawlessness which is spoken of in the bible. Tiller is the concentration camp 'Mengele' of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgement upon our nation."

Well there you go, one who is a member of a group, that condones such atrocities to happen (the "justified" murder of people). It wasn't him, because he was religious, it was him, because he was a fanatic.
There are always extremes on both sides.

fanaticism and ignorance is forever busy and needs feeding

you can get into a large debate on belief vs idea, blah blah blah. put simply, some people believe abortion is murder. out of some of those people, there are those that believe there should consequences for the murder. out of that group there are people who believe killing there murder is an appropriate consequence. all of these can be justified in one way or another (including biblical references) and argued against. in the end, whether you believe in a god or not, you cannot deny religion (and its laws) has roots in every single culture and country. if god was real he would probably approve of all of you being murdered just for speaking this way. but he isn't. meh. who cares if a stupid fucking doctor died? fuck him. i could care less if some 16 year old slut couldn't keep those beef curtains closed and ended up with a baby (yes a baby) in her womb. i don't even care if she decided to murder it (premeditated homicide?). fuck the baby. fuck her. fuck the doctor. life is worth nothing except for the value YOU place on it. fuck you.