Controversial questions..? Just to pass the time

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These are some of the topics that we discussed in our Women and Gender's class and also in my Women in American Popular Culture class. Just let me know what you think.* Do you guys think it's possible for a man to rape his wife or a prostitute since "technically they belong to him"?* Do you think that pornography has influence on people who become rapists and serial killers? Especially with that interview with Ted Bundy minutes before he was executed and he said that after being in jail for so long, most of the mass serial killers he associated with were addicted to pornography as was he. Do you think that an addiction to pornography can mess up how men view and treat women?* It seems like when people refer to sexual discrimination they mainly pertain to white women and when they refer to racial discrimination they mainly pertain to black men which in the end renders the issues of women of color invisible. Do you agree with that?* Do you think it's right for shelter homes for victims of domestic abuse to be rejected because they don't meet certain qualifications such as speaking English?* A Mexican civil rights activist said that it's inappropriate to say "illegal immigrant" because no human being is illegal. They maybe in the country illegally but they themselves are not illegal. It would be better to say that they are undocumented immigrants. And that to refer to someone as illegal can be seen on the same principles that initiated the Holocaust by it's view of Jews. Do you agree with that?* And the Equal Rights Amendment that was proposed over 2 decades ago has yet to be taken into affect because the amount of votes hasn't met the number requirement. The 15(?) states to not vote for the ERA are mainly southern states. Many people attribute this to the fact that it's mainly the "Bible belt" of America... do you think that has anything to do with it?

Just a point about the second question: most guys in jail are addicted to porn if they can get it, like a lot of guys outside. I think it makes little difference overall - if a guy can't see pictures, he'll imagine them in his head.

Originally Posted By: IneligibleI think it makes little difference overall - if a guy can't see pictures, he'll imagine them in his head. So an imagined car-wreck where people die will have the same emotional and psychological impact as being there on the scene when a real one happens? Fascinating logic.I'll get to some more of this later...

of course, devoted christian that you are, you are totally unfamiliar with pornography and masturbation.

Fascinating logic indeed, to argue that what is true of one thing must be true of something quite different. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy

Your interlocutor is of course half-right, though it seems he is not consistent in his views. Wikipedia seems to be about as reliable as any other encyclopedia, which is of course less than 100%. My impression is that most people on the far right can't mentally handle uncertainty, and need something they can believe in absolutely, that will deliver an answer in pure black and white with no greys.In any case I only put the reference up to save myself a tiresome explanation that thor will in any case not read.

Originally Posted By: IneligibleFascinating logic indeed, to argue that what is true of one thing must be true of something quite different. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy Foolish statements made just to avoid losing an argument are not so just because you wish them to be. Go study a bit on the human mind and how it works...but pull your head out of the sand first.

Originally Posted By: thor

Foolish statements made just to avoid losing an argument are not so just because you wish them to be. Go study a bit on the human mind and how it works...but pull your head out of the sand first.

well said, by the proclaimer of "I know you are but what am I?", "I don't ignore issues but that is not an issue to me" and the ever popular "if I say it over and over and over, it might be true"

Quote:Anybody has the right to say no.But not everyone acknowledges that... leading to rape, no? Quote:If they could prove a link between porn and rape, it would be back underground in an instant.I have my own personal bias against porn, but I don't think people can blame porn for their actions. It's really the choice and responsibilities of the viewer. Really there are all types of porn, but some of the porn that was described in the text showed themes of rape and violence which I think is kind of pushing it. Yea some people have their fetishes but idk... they describe an incident where a porn star mentioned that when she as deep-throating a guy who kept pushing into her she was suffocating and felt like she was going to die. And there were several instances where women ended up in the hospital with critical conditions because of that act where the jaw was unhinged/dislocated and the throat was messed up and torn from too large of an expansion. That's insane. Quote:Sexual discrimination isn't mainly white women and racial discrimination isn't mainly black men, so the question is moot. mmm you kinda missed the point lol I wasn't saying it's only referring to those people but it seems like whenever there are issues being taken into consideration based on sex or race discrimination those two are the main focuses and women of color (black women, hispanic women, asian women, asian men, hispanic men) are often overlooked including their issues. Such as the feminist movement that mainly catered to white middle class women or the right for non-whites to vote but not acknowledging the women of those races... hope that made sense lol

Originally Posted By: JapanFan14I have my own personal bias against porn, but I don't think people can blame porn for their actions. It's really the choice and responsibilities of the viewer. I agree Abi. I don't think anyone who does something horrible gets to blame it on porn. That's a cop-out. But I still maintain that porn has a negative influence on how we view sexuality.And, in reference to an earlier post, I am saying that as a Christian who knows plenty about pornography and masturbation.

I'm not sure what the effects of porn are, good or bad. We all know it's more available now than in the past. But, it's also been around for ever. Archeologists have found some very ancient erotic depictions. I have to agree though that porn should not accept any responsibility for the actions of people, nor should music or action movies or Bugs Bunny. Yet, it seems all those things get blamed when a person goes wrong.

Well it's wrong to put the blame on it but it would be false to say that it doesn't influence them.

I have been told Rape isn't about sex but the power. So IF rape is about power then why would Porn be an influence when porn is all about sex...Or maybe their wrong and Rape is abotu sex, not power.i don't get how porn would apply to a serial killer.

I was told usually the men are in control in alot of porn movies in regards to positions or whatever. Not to mention all the kinds of porn movies... ew.But idk... ask the serial killer lol

I'd say the women are in charge when it comes to porn. After all, they are the stars. The guys are barely more than props really

• Do you guys think it's possible for a man to rape his wife or a prostitute since "technically they belong to him"?Who said a wife or prostitute technically belong to any man? The premise is stupid.* Do you think that pornography has influence on people who become rapists and serial killers? Especially with that interview with Ted Bundy minutes before he was executed and he said that after being in jail for so long, most of the mass serial killers he associated with were addicted to pornography as was he. Do you think that an addiction to pornography can mess up how men view and treat women?Though I don't know that it can make serial killers out of them, it surely does affect their minds...and not for the better. It's not an excuse for taking responsibility for ones actions...but it certainly is a BIG factor in what actions they do take. Studies have already shown that TV affects our minds...why would porn be any different?* It seems like when people refer to sexual discrimination they mainly pertain to white women and when they refer to racial discrimination they mainly pertain to black men which in the end renders the issues of women of color invisible. Do you agree with that?Those are media stereotypes that have been handed to you. It's because that is how they are almost always portrayed on TV that you think as you stated above. But as for actual discrimination, I will tell you that black women have a "double-wammy" because they are black AND they are women. Because of this, companies and agencies will go out of their way to avoid firing such folks (black women) if they even think there's going to be some kind of lawsuit. With the gender AND race card to play in court, black women almost always win in that kind of situation (if they play their cards right)...and companies know it. A white male is the most expendable of all...always the first to get laid off in any company that has ties to the federal government (which includes ALL corporations). So, in short, I disagree with what you wrote in terms of actual practice. The problem is that this stigma can work to the disfavor of some black women as some companies can be leary of hiring them...especially if they've just been raked over the coals by one.* Do you think it's right for shelter homes for victims of domestic abuse to be rejected because they don't meet certain qualifications such as speaking English?I bet there's a story behind this one, and without it I'm going to refrain from making a comment.* A Mexican civil rights activist said that it's inappropriate to say "illegal immigrant" because no human being is illegal. They maybe in the country illegally but they themselves are not illegal. It would be better to say that they are undocumented immigrants. And that to refer to someone as illegal can be seen on the same principles that initiated the Holocaust by it's view of Jews. Do you agree with that?BS. They are immigrants, yes? So, they are here either legally or illegally. I've got no problems calling somebody what they are as long as it's an accurate description. The problem exists with people who want to rationalize avoiding the blunt truth of the matter.* And the Equal Rights Amendment that was proposed over 2 decades ago has yet to be taken into affect because the amount of votes hasn't met the number requirement. The 15(?) states to not vote for the ERA are mainly southern states. Many people attribute this to the fact that it's mainly the "Bible belt" of America... do you think that has anything to do with it? I think it has to do with the black/white difficulty of integration with the history of slavery that existed in that part of the country. I don't think it has anything to do with Christianity, and I'd LOVE to hear what rational some bozo would use to suggest so.

Originally Posted By: RadAnd, they are basically FOR men, to fulfill THEIR fantasy.It is reported that men are visual.Women, as a general rule, do not like porn.Women, as a general rule, like romance novels.I'm led to believe that romance novels have a measure of improbable activity in them, as well. You're on the right track. Pulp romance novels ARE women's porn. In both cases (the books and the movies), unreasonable expectations can become levied on the opposite sex, with the potential end result being less satisfaction with reality/our partners...present and future. The more the exposure, the higher the probability of this happening. "Chic flicks" can often be female porn as well. The old saying is "Men love with there eyes, women with their ears (or what's between them)". Not accounting for the misuse of the word "love".

Quote:Who said a wife or prostitute technically belong to any man? The premise is stupid.It's stupid yet it was a general rule and something unacknowledged way back when before being identified as an actual crime. Because as politician Bob Wilson said "if you can't rape your wife, who can you rape?" Take that as you will. Quote:Though I don't know that it can make serial killers out of them, it surely does affect their minds...and not for the better. It's not an excuse for taking responsibility for ones actions...but it certainly is a BIG factor in what actions they do take. Studies have already shown that TV affects our minds...why would porn be any different?I agree with this completely. I can't think of many other reasons why the perverted disgusting disrespect guys in my neighborhood would refer to women as bitches and hoes while mistreating them physically (experienced, dude) than from what they've seen on tv. If I've met people on campus that only knew what black people were than by what they've seen on tv, there's no questioning that media let alone porn influences also. And just because someone is the "star" doesn't mean they're not being demeaned. I saw one porn movie in my entire lifetime (I was a kid, shhh) and it was disgustingly barbaric at the time I thought the guy was going to kill the poor women. There was an episode on a talk show where a guy would rather watch his porn than have sex with this wife... seriously? Quote:Those are media stereotypes that have been handed to you. It's because that is how they are almost always portrayed on TV that you think as you stated above. But as for actual discrimination, I will tell you that black women have a "double-wammy" because they are black AND they are women. Because of this, companies and agencies will go out of their way to avoid firing such folks (black women) if they even think there's going to be some kind of lawsuit. With the gender AND race card to play in court, black women almost always win in that kind of situation (if they play their cards right)...and companies know it. A white male is the most expendable of all...always the first to get laid off in any company that has ties to the federal government (which includes ALL corporations). So, in short, I disagree with what you wrote in terms of actual practice. The problem is that this stigma can work to the disfavor of some black women as some companies can be leary of hiring them...especially if they've just been raked over the coals by one.For one, you completely missed my point. And two, you obviously don't know what it means to be a black women. The fact that you even pinpointed on black women just proved my point. I said when people speak in terms of sex discrimination they mainly seem to focus on the issues of white middle class women such as in the feminist movement where many terms were changed in favor of women of that status overlooking the struggles that women of color have to go through. BY THE WAY, "people of color" refers to black, hispanic, asian, native american, etc. Not just black. So the fact that you just focused on black women basically proved my point that women of color in general are rendered invisible with issues of asian women and men, hispanic women and men often being overlooked to focus on what is considered "main". When racial discrimination was considered it was mainly on the focus of the mistreatment of black men rather than both men and women of EVERY color.And once again, you really don't know what it's like to be a women especially of women of color to make such generalizations as you did unless it actually happened to yourself. Which if it did would explain why you respond to certain issues the way you do. Quote:I bet there's a story behind this one, and without it I'm going to refrain from making a comment.There was a Puerto Rican woman who was being abused by her husband and when he threatened to kill her she escaped her home with her son. She went to a local shelter to ask for help but because she didn't meet the qualifications of speaking English she was left to defend herself out on the street with her son till several weeks later when they finally decided to let her in. By then she was no longer there. Many non-English speaking women are abused report of being rejected from certain shelters because there is no representative to translate for them.

"Do you guys think it's possible for a man to rape his wife..."Absolutely. Rape is rape. To my knowledge, still in the state of Oklahoma, legally a man cannot rape his wife. The justification for this by the republican legislature was two fold. First that the laws of man should not be allowed to inter the sanctity of marriage and secondly that any married women could claim rape against her husband just to defame and demean him and there would be no way to determine if the claim was real or not. - Bullshit in other words. That was several years ago but I've not heard of any attempt to change the law since that time, when it failed. >>>"Do you think that pornography has influence on people who become rapists and serial killers?"I think that statement is far to definite. I would assume it has some but I don't think it's a tipping scale or an integral part of what makes them what they are. I think the deleterious effects of porn are far more subtle and do less in impacting society as the impact they have on the individual.As with anything in life moderation of self is key. Anything in excess is unhealthy. >>>"It seems like when people refer to sexual discrimination they mainly pertain to white women and when they refer to racial discrimination they mainly pertain to black men which in the end renders the issues of women of color invisible. Do you agree with that?"Absolutely, I agree. The problem lay in the fact that not every minority can have their grievance heard and addressed without overwhelming the collective conscience of the society to which they are addressing their problems. It becomes to much and engenders resentment in the society that is undertaking actions to address the wrongs that the preponderance have brought to their attention. Ideally the key would be to get the larger minority to take up the cause of the lessor minorities in their fight but from my vantage point that rarely happens, if at all. In fact one minority is often more harsh with another when it gains advantage over them.(I should say that all this is just my perspective and what I've witnessed in life.)>>>"Do you think it's right for shelter homes for victims of domestic abuse to be rejected because they don't meet certain qualifications such as speaking English?"Absolutely not. First shelter anyone in need and then go about finding a translator second.>>>"A Mexican civil rights activist said that it's inappropriate to say 'illegal immigrant'..."I think he has a point but I also think those kinds of issues are a distractions from the real problems at hand. Same thing with team mascots.>>>"The 15(?) states to not vote for the ERA are mainly southern states. Many people attribute this to the fact that it's mainly the 'Bible belt' of America... do you think that has anything to do with it?"Yes, that and the fact for white women, in particular, things are "equal enough" that they aren't going to put energy into the fight.

Originally Posted By: JapanFan14 Quote:Those are media stereotypes that have been handed to you. It's because that is how they are almost always portrayed on TV that you think as you stated above. But as for actual discrimination, I will tell you that black women have a "double-wammy" because they are black AND they are women. Because of this, companies and agencies will go out of their way to avoid firing such folks (black women) if they even think there's going to be some kind of lawsuit. With the gender AND race card to play in court, black women almost always win in that kind of situation (if they play their cards right)...and companies know it. A white male is the most expendable of all...always the first to get laid off in any company that has ties to the federal government (which includes ALL corporations). So, in short, I disagree with what you wrote in terms of actual practice. The problem is that this stigma can work to the disfavor of some black women as some companies can be leary of hiring them...especially if they've just been raked over the coals by one.For one, you completely missed my point. And two, you obviously don't know what it means to be a black women. The fact that you even pinpointed on black women just proved my point. I said when people speak in terms of sex discrimination they mainly seem to focus on the issues of white middle class women such as in the feminist movement where many terms were changed in favor of women of that status overlooking the struggles that women of color have to go through. BY THE WAY, "people of color" refers to black, hispanic, asian, native american, etc. Not just black. So the fact that you just focused on black women basically proved my point that women of color in general are rendered invisible with issues of asian women and men, hispanic women and men often being overlooked to focus on what is considered "main". When racial discrimination was considered it was mainly on the focus of the mistreatment of black men rather than both men and women of EVERY color.And once again, you really don't know what it's like to be a women especially of women of color to make such generalizations as you did unless it actually happened to yourself. Which if it did would explain why you respond to certain issues the way you do.Hey, you're the one who said "white women" and "black men"...swap the two around and all else you can get is "white man" and "black women". What I said stands true...and comes from personal experience and observation multiple times over the years. I will also point out that you do not know what it means to be a white man anymore than I do what it means to be a black woman, and nothing is going the change that. The better we try and understand each other, don't you think? Quote: Quote:I bet there's a story behind this one, and without it I'm going to refrain from making a comment.There was a Puerto Rican woman who was being abused by her husband and when he threatened to kill her she escaped her home with her son. She went to a local shelter to ask for help but because she didn't meet the qualifications of speaking English she was left to defend herself out on the street with her son till several weeks later when they finally decided to let her in. By then she was no longer there. Many non-English speaking women are abused report of being rejected from certain shelters because there is no representative to translate for them. Yeah...glad I waited. Your question made it seem to me as if they didn't allow houses to become safe-houses because the owners of the houses didn't speak English. I don't think the woman should have needed to speak English to be allowed inside...but I also don't think safe-houses should be required, in an english speaking country, to have translaters on hand for those who don't speak the language. English is the language of this country and, legally or not, if you decide to live here you better learn it....not expect others to run around providing translation services for you! (Pet peave of mine, in case you missed it.)The problem exists with the procedures in those safe-houses...not with a lack of translation services. Sheesh!