What is this, Steve using a dictionary? In reply to:Steve said: Webster's dictionary is not the bible. It contains some incomplete and incorrect definitions, particularly w.r.t. technical words. If you want to arbitrarily define Webster's as correct, as you do the bible, that's your privilege...language is not algebra. Words can be ambiguous and change meaning over the course of time. The Merriam-Webster dictionary is not the infallible authority on the English language. How ironic that if the dictionary suits my purpose, you claim that it is useless and wrong, yet when it suits yours, the meanings it gives are no longer 'arbitrary'As for this thread, I would say there's no real reason to feel uncomfortable around gays. In my opinion, you shouldn't hold one choice of a person against them without looking at other qualities they have. People who claim to be gay also have some great qualities within them, which shouldn't be totally overlooked based on that one decision that the person has made. As for being afraid that they are 'checking you out,' just think of it as the same as a girl that you aren't attracted to checking you out (no offense to anyone, it's just kindof the same concept) You wouldn't hold it against her forever, would you? Just make sure they know you're not interested, and work past it.
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Afraid of gays...Why?
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...continuing from my response in the other forum...and hoping to be nice!I don't have problems at all with your paraphrasing. I understand that it's been awhile since the original post and paraphrasing is easier than going back, cutting pasting, all that crap. I was merely concerned about how our perspectives might "taint" our memory of what was originally said. That's all. Fact is, I need to watch that myself.The one thing I thing I would take issue with is that people's feelings about gay folks aren't always wrapped in politics and religion. My feelings about gay men (which I've mentioned vaguely here) are very much formed by being victimized. I know that's an extreme, and that the majority of thought is around politics and religion. I just think we should leave it a little more open. And I really think the original poster might fall outside the R/P arenas. Although he should answer that for himself.Bottom line on this thread is that I felt that you come out of the box way too strongly - almost condemning with this: Has anyone noticed that if you replace the word "gay" with "black" or "Jew" or "Mexican", a lot of the postings sound like a speech at a KKK rally? Do you think there's a great quailitative difference between homophobia and racism? So I guess between that, and my own struggle with being comfortable around gay men, I felt a little attacked. Maybe - no definitely - I could have responded to my feeling attacked a little better. I shall try to do better next time. Thanks for making me think.
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thank you for reading my post and thinking about it!I am dyslexic, so my spelling is not directly linked to my grasp of the language.I guess my main point is that people, in general, chuck words and phrases about, willy nilly. I’m sure you must have heard people say “penultimate” when they mean “ultimate”.dictionary.com's deffinition of homophobic is contemorary, Admittedly, so is the word.You are making an excellent point about disecting the language and it's one of my favorite topics!After all, would something prehistoric that is unequally elastic in different directions be termed archaeoaeolotropic?fun fun fun!
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In reply to:How ironic that if the dictionary suits my purpose, you claim that it is useless and wrong, yet when it suits yours, the meanings it gives are no longer 'arbitrary'Nice of you to drop the original context, which was about how a common dictionary defines a technical term. And the Merriam-Webster dictionary is not the ultimate authority on the English language. The Oxford English dictionary (the one that takes up two shelves)...maybe.It's like this: I wouldn't expect a doctor to have a deep knowledge of auto mechanics, I wouldn't expect an elementary school teacher to have a deep understanding of quantum physics, and I wouldn't expect a common dictionary to have comprehensive definitions of technical terms.So then, you agree with content of my last post on this thread?However, the next paragraph is well-reasoned and tolerant. Cool.In reply to:As for this thread, I would say there's no real reason to feel uncomfortable around gays.I agree with you...were that humans were rational...but we can hope.______________________________Damien says:In reply to:The one thing I thing I would take issue with is that people's feelings about gay folks aren't always wrapped in politics and religion.I agree with this. A person's feelings can be formed by their personal experience, not just cultural influences. But I considered the original poster to be the "generic" case, since he did not describe his personal situation in great detail.As for the KKK comment, I was thinking specifically about a radio interview with Alan Keyes (it seemed to have left a strong impression on me--hypocrisy really sticks in my craw). He was complaining about how he was being discriminated against by the media and everyone else because he's black. Then he went right into a tirade against gays. In that case, it really would have sounded racist if he'd have replaced "gay" with "Latino" or "Asian".But people often feel uncomfortable around certain ethnic groups if they've had a bad experience with one or more people from that group. It's very difficult for a police officer who works in high-crime inner city areas, for example, not to start resenting the group(s) he's always dealing with on the street.This reminds me of the fact that I am very clueless as to who's gay, unless they are very flamboyant. I went to school with a guy from rural Pennsylvania, and his father was a big wheel in the community. It would have been very uncool to come out of the closet. He was still in the closet in college, and I never figured it out...I thought he just didn't like to date. He was studying filmmaking, and he was one of the smartest and most creative people I met (we even got a letter published in Penthouse, for whatever that's worth--he did almost all of the writing; he also made some extremely cool films, even as a freshman). Believe it or not, he's now ghost-writing Hardy Boys novels. I'm not making this up. In any case, my life would have been diminished had I not known him. Now, at that time, if he were out of the closet and flamboyant, would I have been uncomfortable? Hard to say...I'll never know.I've also known other gay people, who were awesome human beings. That is why my hackles go up in a discussion such as this one.(Hey, I'm beating the word cool to death today.)
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So far, you, Damien, and F22Fighter have used words I hadn't yet encountered, and I consider myself pretty well-read. The Internet makes me smarter every day.
About the spelling--that was a cheap shot...but since we were being pedantic....
Anyway, my spelling is far from perfect, and my typing is atrocious.In reply to:
I'm sure you must have heard people say "penultimate" when they mean "ultimate".
An old boss of mine used to do that. We had a problem...I thought he was sloppy, and he thought I was a pedantic douchebag (or is that "douche bag"?). I think he was more correct than I was, in retrospect.
Are students taught things like the roots of English words these days? I barely remember...it was so long ago.
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In reply to: What is this, Steve using a dictionary? In reply to: Steve said: Webster's dictionary is not the bible. It contains some incomplete and incorrect definitions, particularly w.r.t. technical words. If you want to arbitrarily define Webster's as correct, as you do the bible, that's your privilege...language is not algebra. Words can be ambiguous and change meaning over the course of time. The Merriam-Webster dictionary is not the infallible authority on the English language.How ironic that if the dictionary suits my purpose, you claim that it is useless and wrong, yet when it suits yours, the meanings it gives are no longer 'arbitrary'As for this thread, I would say there's no real reason to feel uncomfortable around gays. In my opinion, you shouldn't hold one choice of a person against them without looking at other qualities they have. People who claim to be gay also have some great qualities within them, which shouldn't be totally overlooked based on that one decision that the person has made. As for being afraid that they are 'checking you out,' just think of it as the same as a girl that you aren't attracted to checking you out (no offense to anyone, it's just kindof the same concept) You wouldn't hold it against her forever, would you? Just make sure they know you're not interested, and work past it.Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Email PostdamienMember***Reged: 01/23/05Posts: 279 Re: Afraid of gays...Why? new [re: SteveA] 03/06/05 12:51 AM Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply ...continuing from my response in the other forum...and hoping to be nice!I don't have problems at all with your paraphrasing. I understand that it's been awhile since the original post and paraphrasing is easier than going back, cutting pasting, all that crap. I was merely concerned about how our perspectives might "taint" our memory of what was originally said. That's all. Fact is, I need to watch that myself.The one thing I thing I would take issue with is that people's feelings about gay folks aren't always wrapped in politics and religion. My feelings about gay men (which I've mentioned vaguely here) are very much formed by being victimized. I know that's an extreme, and that the majority of thought is around politics and religion. I just think we should leave it a little more open. And I really think the original poster might fall outside the R/P arenas. Although he should answer that for himself.Bottom line on this thread is that I felt that you come out of the box way too strongly - almost condemning with this:Has anyone noticed that if you replace the word "gay" with "black" or "Jew" or "Mexican", a lot of the postings sound like a speech at a KKK rally? Do you think there's a great quailitative difference between homophobia and racism?So I guess between that, and my own struggle with being comfortable around gay men, I felt a little attacked. Maybe - no definitely - I could have responded to my feeling attacked a little better. I shall try to do better next time.Thanks for making me think.Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Email PostunsupervisedSenior Member***Reged: 11/28/04Posts: 849 Re: Afraid of gays...Why? new [re: SteveA] 03/06/05 01:25 AM Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply thank you for reading my post and thinking about it!I am dyslexic, so my spelling is not directly linked to my grasp of the language.I guess my main point is that people, in general, chuck words and phrases about, willy nilly. I’m sure you must have heard people say “penultimate” when they mean “ultimate”.dictionary.com's deffinition of homophobic is contemorary, Admittedly, so is the word.You are making an excellent point about disecting the language and it's one of my favorite topics!After all, would something prehistoric that is unequally elastic in different directions be termed archaeoaeolotropic?fun fun fun!i know your dirty little secretsPost Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Email PostSteveAMemberReged: 03/02/05Posts: 57Loc: Miami Re: Afraid of gays...Why? new [re: F22Fighter] 03/06/05 02:10 AM Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply In reply to: How ironic that if the dictionary suits my purpose, you claim that it is useless and wrong, yet when it suits yours, the meanings it gives are no longer 'arbitrary'Nice of you to drop the original context, which was about how a common dictionary defines a technical term. And the Merriam-Webster dictionary is not the ultimate authority on the English language. The Oxford English dictionary (the one that takes up two shelves)...maybe.It's like this: I wouldn't expect a doctor to have a deep knowledge of auto mechanics, I wouldn't expect an elementary school teacher to have a deep understanding of quantum physics, and I wouldn't expect a common dictionary to have comprehensive definitions of technical terms.So then, you agree with content of my last post on this thread?However, the next paragraph is well-reasoned and tolerant. Cool. In reply to: As for this thread, I would say there's no real reason to feel uncomfortable around gays.I agree with you...were that humans were rational...but we can hope.______________________________Damien says: In reply to: The one thing I thing I would take issue with is that people's feelings about gay folks aren't always wrapped in politics and religion.I agree with this. A person's feelings can be formed by their personal experience, not just cultural influences. But I considered the original poster to be the "generic" case, since he did not describe his personal situation in great detail.As for the KKK comment, I was thinking specifically about a radio interview with Alan Keyes (it seemed to have left a strong impression on me--hypocrisy really sticks in my craw). He was complaining about how he was being discriminated against by the media and everyone else because he's black. Then he went right into a tirade against gays. In that case, it really would have sounded racist if he'd have replaced "gay" with "Latino" or "Asian".But people often feel uncomfortable around certain ethnic groups if they've had a bad experience with one or more people from that group. It's very difficult for a police officer who works in high-crime inner city areas, for example, not to start resenting the group(s) he's always dealing with on the street.This reminds me of the fact that I am very clueless as to who's gay, unless they are very flamboyant. I went to school with a guy from rural Pennsylvania, and his father was a big wheel in the community. It would have been very uncool to come out of the closet. He was still in the closet in college, and I never figured it out...I thought he just didn't like to date. He was studying filmmaking, and he was one of the smartest and most creative people I met (we even got a letter published in Penthouse, for whatever that's worth--he did almost all of the writing; he also made some extremely cool films, even as a freshman). Believe it or not, he's now ghost-writing Hardy Boys novels. I'm not making this up. In any case, my life would have been diminished had I not known him. Now, at that time, if he were out of the closet and flamboyant, would I have been uncomfortable? Hard to say...I'll never know.I've also known other gay people, who were awesome human beings. That is why my hackles go up in a discussion such as this one.(Hey, I'm beating the word cool to death today.)Absorbent and yellow and porous is He.Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Email PostSteveAMemberReged: 03/02/05Posts: 57Loc: Miami Re: Afraid of gays...Why? new [re: unsupervised] 03/06/05 02:18 AM Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply So far, you, Damien, and F22Fighter have used words I hadn't yet encountered, and I consider myself pretty well-read. The Internet makes me smarter every day.About the spelling--that was a cheap shot...but since we were being pedantic....Anyway, my spelling is far from perfect, and my typing is atrocious. In reply to: I’m sure you must have heard people say “penultimate” when they mean “ultimate”.An old boss of mine used to do that. We had a problem...I thought he was sloppy, and he thought I was a pedantic douchebag (or is that "douche bag"?). I think he was more correct than I was, in retrospect.Are students taught things like the roots of English words these days? I barely remember...it was so long ago. WHAT THE HELL!!!!Has my thread turned into a dictionary thread??
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getting back to the topic...
just because someone is gay or bi and finds you attractive, big deal.
take the gay out of it a minute:
i know lots of guys find me attractive, and some of them are downright creepy. i know they're looking at me and my body parts - possibly thinking about doing me. eewww. what am i gonna do about it, go live in a cave?
you just can't dwell on it or worry about it. (unless they try to touch you, then just say "no".) if you really think about it, people check you out every day, and might have "thoughts", but they're just that, thoughts.
back on gay: i'm sure you're not sending out "signals" that you might be interested, so likely none of them are going to hit on you anyway. and if they do, that "no" thing works pretty well.
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Among all that chaff there was some relevant stuff. You might have quoted it and/or told us to stop posting irrelevant junk to you thread...instead, you've given my router a hernia.
But what the last poster said makes good sense. To paraphrase, if I may, there will always be people around who make you uncomfortable. You can get used to it or not pay attention to it, and life goes on, or just keep on feeling uncomfortable. What else can you do?
If you works with a group of people, someone is bound to get on your nerves. As a student, it's easier to avoid such folks. When you work, you don't usually have that option. So life becomes easier if you don't spend the day at work feeling uncomfortable.
But I understand that my telling you not to feel uncomfortable won't magically make you feel uncomfortable. It's something you can deal with, if you wish.
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In reply to: i know lots of guys find me attractive, and some of them are downright creepy. i know they're looking at me and my body parts - possibly thinking about doing me. eewww. what am i gonna do about it, go live in a cave? I think it's good to point out that, as men, there are girls who are attracted to us that we're not interested in. However, I would have to say that's not really the same thing. If you are a straight man and another man is chicking you out, not only is it someone you are not attracted to and not interested in, it is also a variation of sexuality that you are not interested in. That makes it sort of a double whammy.
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In reply to:I think it's good to point out that, as men, there are girls who are attracted to us that we're not interested in. However, I would have to say that's not really the same thing. If you are a straight man and another man is chicking you out, not only is it someone you are not attracted to and not interested in, it is also a variation of sexuality that you are not interested in. That makes it sort of a double whammy. agreed. but, how you deal with it is the same. i guess you have to "double ignore it" and, let me tell you, since i'm bi, i notice both sexes checking me out, and, sorry, but guys are much more obvious and creepy about it. so, ha! it grosses me out MORE when certain guys check me out in that way than any girl!
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In reply to: and no I dont have a problem with gay people if they dont really act that gay Act gay? Not all homosexual males or females 'act' gay. I have a great friend (who was my boyfriend for a while until he came out... long story) who doesn't act like the sterotypical gay guy. We all (well not all but I'm making a point lol) assume that all gay guys can do the z snap, have impeccable taste in clothing, know how to fix hair, and all of these other steriotypical behaviors. He acts more strait that a strait guy sometimes and he has the worst taste in cloths, he can't fix hair (although he thinks he can... I once ended up with pink hair because he somehow misread directions on a box of hair dye), and I'm not sure he even knows what a z snap is lol Not all homosexual people act like the steriotypical gay person.
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In reply to: and no I dont have a problem with gay people if they dont really act that gay It reminds me of when I was I was a little kid in the late 60's; some of the comments people made about the "hippies" were cruel, or at least, intolerant. If a guy had long hair, he was considered a hippie. Likewise if someone said "far out" a lot.And that reminds me of how white Southerners could accept a black if he wasn't too "uppity" (i.e., a black guy was fine as long as he acted like a beaten dog, rather than like a white person).Now I know some people don't like throwing homophobia together with things like racism, but I think that insecurity is the common thread. For the most part, people don't mind that which does not threaten them.So if society evolves (as it is doing) so that people realize that gay people in general aren't a threat, even if they're flamboyant, gays will come to be accepted. For blacks, it's still a rough road, but a lot better than it was fifty years ago.In some ways we can look toward Western Europe to see what our society will look like in the future. This has been true at least since slavery was outlawed there.
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EVER HEARD OF THE SAYING ......LIVE AND LET LIVE...EACH TO THERE OWNWHO THE HELL GAVE YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE ANYONES SEXUALITY
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Lighten up Padre. No one's judging.If you can't handle a mature discussion of fears and anxieties and wondering why A is A and not B, then maybe you should go here:www.chat-avenue.com/kidchat.html
