Fair or unfair? The Schiavo case

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Euthanasia is a complicated issue. I read an article that a physician wrote, and he made a very good case for why doctors shouldn't perform euthanasia (basically, conflict of interest.)

If someone makes an informed decision that they want to end their life, and the are incapable of doing it themselves, that's one thing. If the person is unable to communicate, though, it gets more difficult.

Then there's the case of someone in a vegetative state.

I think both sides make a good case on the euthanasia issue.

In reply to:

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And I believe in euthanasia by the way...and I'm catholic.

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don't worry, I won't tell!

What the RC church says is that "using extrodinary means" or "excessively keeping a patient alive" is not required. That, of course is different than euthinasia.

My first exposure to death by hunger was the day to day news updates on the IRA hunger strikers. It is not a painless process. The other problem I have is that letting her die this way will likely make her organs usless for transplant which is a further tragedy.

In reply to:My first exposure to death by hunger was the day to day news updates on the IRA hunger strikers.Were they completely off anything by mouth? Are you going by how they looked, or how they say they felt?

I believe they had water. They all lasted about a month, went blind around 20 days.Terri is actually going to die of dehydration.

In reply to:I believe they had water.That makes a big difference. I'm not exactly sure what specific effect drinking has, but if you eat anything at all, it totally screws up the process.

ya, actually, should say that I'm sure they had water, otherwise they probably wouldn't have made it a week.

I was quite young when it happened but it left quite an impression on me.

I hope hope HOPE they have the decency to keep Terri on a strong morphine drip during all this.

In reply to:strong morphine dripSounds reasonable.

In reply to: Do you see this as an emotionally charged phrase, like "right to life"? Just because you think a phrase has an emotional charge doesn't make it ineligible for use.The American Heritage Dictionary defines kill as:1.to put to death2.to deprive of life3.to put an end to, extinguishIs that not what is going on, or would some less charged synonym that means the exact same thing help you sleep better at night.And how is "right to life" emotionally charged?If these things are emotionally charged, is that any worse than speaking of all this in completely technical/medical/clinical terms, thereby stripping it of any emotion?

wow, it's so easy for you to say, YOU CAN'T KILL THIS PERSON, THEY'RE A LIVING PERSON. But what are you actually doing to help the situation? if you feel that strong about this, go help! Go pay the doctor's bills, go sit there day after day, talking to her, knowing she may or MAY NOT hear, let alone understand you. Don't sit on this side of the fence, saying, wow that situation is bad, lets go play dodgeball...WHAT?! THEY'RE GONNA REMOVE HER FEEDING TUBE? NOW IS THE TIME FOR ACTION.

Well, that's a bit absurd.

As far as what I'm doing to help the situation, I think we're all doing it. I believe the one good thing happeningis that our nation is having this discussion. Unfortunately, there's not a blessed thing I can for for this particular woman. But we need to have this discourse so we're all better prepared for it the next time. Hopefully, if there is a next time, decisions won't be made in the heat of the moment, but will have been well thought out before hand.Kind of like not deciding how far you'll go with your girlfriend when you're already in the backseat of your car with steamy windows!

No, it's not. Thousands of people die everyday, it's a way of life my friend. Yes it's a sad, very sad fact of life, but it's a fact nonetheless.

In reply to: would some less charged synonym that means the exact same thing ya, true, but the choice of synonym is often made to convey an extra message through context.Did he fell the steer or did he murder the steer? Depends on how you feel about meat.But friends, let's not loose sight of the topic and fall into another little wordy thinggy (at least not this time )

hopefully, the conversation will continue after the media gets board and moves on. Or else we'll all be talking about a senitor and his teen intern next week.

thanks for getting back on topic

In reply to:If these things are emotionally charged, is that any worse than speaking of all this in completely technical/medical/clinical terms, thereby stripping it of any emotion?It depends whether you think our constitutional form of government should be replaced by mob rule or by a beneficent dictator. The courts are not supposed to make their decisions based on politics, bias, or prejudice. It's not an ideal world, but that is the ideal.Are you talking about fundamental philosophical issues of right and wrong rather than legal issues?Maybe we should be more concerned about the lives of people who are white and attractive? (Wait a minute, we do do that. Thanks, popular media.) After all, their cases have the greatest emotional impact.I'm not really sure where emotion enhances this case. Could you enlighten me?And you can play all the lawyerly dictionary and thesaurus games you want; the dictionary has a bunch of definitions for most words. But their meaning in context is defined by their context. Do you think your position can't be discerned from your use of the word kill? Would you have any trouble figuring out the position of someone who called a woman who took a morning-after pill a baby killer?________________________Terri Schiavo's family failed to get the 11th Circuit court of appeals to order the feeding tube reinserted. Now they're trying to appeal to the Supreme Court. We'll see if they agree to hear the case.

The Supreme Court has rejected the appeal. Gov. Bush is still trying to figure out what he can do.

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Patient Refusal of Nutrition and Hydration (Byock, 1995)

Ethical Issues in Hydration and Nutrition (MacDonald, 1998)

we're at nearly a week without water, she's just about out of time. If she lasts much longer, I'm going to become suspicious

they took her off of IV fluid as well? I thought it was 3 days without water, and you're S.O.L.?

Very hard to sit around and wait for someone to die. At least the deaths like this that I had to deal with personally were very quick after they were removed from any life support.

yes, it is usually pretty quick, but there was probably less debate in your personal instances, none of this...remove it, put it back in, wait for congress, take it back out. etc.