Bombing

---

In reply to:people are too precious, never waste a day, tell them you love them.A truer thing has rarely been said. As horrible as disasters like this are, this realization is at least a sliver of a silver lining.

Wow, that was really lucky pouncer. And Jessica I hope your brother didn't get hurt or anyone else you know. There's is too much crap going on in the world these days.

thank god you didn't go son...........big hugs Jess so glad your brother was ok, i have a few friends in london, but luckily all are fine too..............

(why is it bushs fault, they bomb our home country so we attacked them just like with pearl harbor. Why is it our fault london (got bombed??)You are confused with the facts. We were attacked by members of Al Queda, not Iraq. In fact there were no Iraqis involved in 911. Bush had it right when he sent our soldiers to Afghanistan but Bin Laden is still a free man. In mid stream he lied to the American people and sent our soldiers to Iraq. (look up the Downey Street report and there is evidence that he planned the invasion of Iraq and used 911 as an excuse) Over 1800 of our men have been killed there as well as over 25000 Iraqis. All of this was unnecessary. Bin Laden is still creating terror throughout the world and, in my opinion, it is just getting started. He has not closed our border nor our ports. $300 billion has been spent unnecessarily in Iraq and there is no end in sight. This is taxpayers money that should be used to educate, feed and provide health care for Americans, not Iraqis. George Bush is EVIL! He should be impeached and he, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice should be charged with International war crimes. What makes me even more furious is that I voted for the SOB in 2000.

International War Crimes is right.

We went into Afghanistan as a result of terrorism. It doesnt' really matter what we Americans do, as long as our policies regarding Israel don't change. We are the great satan, and are the enemy of Arabs because of our embracing the state of Israel. Woodsrow Wilson had federal troops in Russia to help the Czarist state, and these troop stayed there for two years. Hence the mistrust on the part of Communist Russia illustrated by the Cold War. Many presidents, having the best intelligence, the best advice, make mistakes. Most of those in the Bush cabinet have Ivey League degrees, and Condi Rice has two, the first at the age of 16, or thereabouts. I am pretty confident that these people know what they are doing, or what they are trying to do. We clammor to know everything that is going on, and it is not in our best interests to do so. The political wrangling we do see is but the tip of the iceberg, and many idealistic types could not stomach the sheer gamesmanship involved in politics. NAFTA has destroyed the economy, not a president. Rooselvelt, from his election in 33 until 1941, could not pull the country out of the Depression. For all of this policies, little was impacted, UNTIL WWII. If he allowed us to get pulled into it, he did so with the idea that finally something would turn the struggling econcomy around. Presidential policy can but little impact the economy. I would instead lay the blame at the feet of Congress, and the bid'ness owners. I would also point the finger at us. We as a group are not saving, instead we are spending, and some of that spending is payment on interest rates. there is little money in savings accounts , and so our country has been profiting from overseas investment, like from Japan. Our credit card habits we have now imported, along with the other aspects of our culture, and so the investments from japan and other nations have dried up. The way some talk (write?) it would seem that Bush, Cheny and RIce were ALSO on the grassy knoll.Those extremeists will act out their terrorism no matter what, as long as Isreal is upheld by the U.S. I cannot see blaming Bush and Blair for terror mentality that has been in place since 1947 or so. I cannot blame any president for the destructive acts of one group that are designed to bully in some defiant stomping of ones incipient little foot.But I have remarked in the past to others that Al Quida doesn't have to win its war of terrorism, all it has to do is keep harrying the States, like Mosby did to the Union forces, or Washington did to the British, or the Vietcong did to us and the French, until we spend ourselves into oblivion. I honestly think that such is the focus of Al Quida. I now lay on the ground, supine, my jugular exposed, my soul is at peace ( and my body wants to get a peice).

On good intelligence: It appears that a lot of people in the administration were working with cooked intelligence. Please read former national security advisor and terrorism chief Richard Clark's book, among many other things. Condoleezza Rice had absolutely no idea what she was doing. None whatsoever. Neither did John Ashcroft. Rumsfeld had some admirable ideas, but he sure screwed up the execution. I don't even know what to say about Dick Cheney. And Colin Powell, who actually did have a clue, was left to twist slowly in the breeze. He thinks Cheney and the Pentagon neo-cons were completely insane.> as long as Isreal is upheld by the U.S.I assume you're talking about Israel's policies toward the Palestinians. It can be argued that the Palestinian issue can be blamed for a lot of Islamic terrorism (Mubarak says half), but a lot of that (by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.) stays in the Middle East. Many folks are very angry about the repressive governments in most Middle Eastern countries, and the U.S.'s support for them. The government and royal family of Saudi Arabia are widely hated, but they are good friends of the U.S., and very good friends (look up "Bandar Bush") of the president's family.

You will notice that I said that presidents with the best intelligence, the best advice...I was not suggesting that Bush had good intel, or advice. I do beleive that with the understandings at hand, the Bush admin is trying to do the best possible under trying circumstance. I will also say that I think the Muslim extremists are playing the chess game better. We pushed for a Jewish state at the close of the second world war, and so Israel was carved from the Palestinian territory. We support and established this Zionist state, and we have been hated by middle easterners since. At first, the Jews were attacked directly via war, from which they emerged the victors against larger fielded forces. Now we are being attacked (don't forget Munich in '72), since we support Israel the state. We also are immoral, according to extremist readings of the Q'uran, and we worship a triune God, violating their belief in but one God. It does not matter who is in office, or what we do. We will be attacked as often as possible until we either pull all support from Israel, destroy those who have the ideals espoused by Al Quida, or we are done as a power. I also know about the "friendship" between the House of Saud and the house of Bush. In politics, friendships only go so far. The Saudis also fund terrorism, as has been lately revealed. They are simply riding the fence for expediencys' sake. Yes, the war on terror might escelate already tense situations and exacerbate terror minded folk, but it has little to do with Bush except that he is currenlty in power. Even if we had never gone into Iraq, we would still be attacked, because we are hated. We are hated for what we are, what we have, and what we can do. Our memories are short and locally focused, but many, many events have roots dating back five, ten twenty years. Nothing here on Earth (had to include that here on Earth phrase as I see you enjoy science. No sense to give you ammunition needlessly)takes place in a vacuum.Bush, Cheny, bin Laden, etc, are just actors in act three of a huge stage production. The play is much larger than any one of them, or any ten.I will try to get that book and give it a read.

There was a guy who did a documentary a few weeks after 9/11 I think and from all his research he gathered that George bush and his other minions new about 9/11 and were just going to use it for the benefit of other things they had planned. It was used as an explaination for the other buildings surrounding it to be brought down. Must have contained some very important information. There was a tape of him in florida during 9/11 and when he was told what happened he did not look stressed at all. He said he didn't want to "dissappoint the children". I'm sure they would have understood. But he has certainly made alot of mistakes. His speeches really don't make sense if you listen closely, and in the debates he never answers the questions asked.

Was his name Michael Moore? Cause I think I know him...

may have been

Now we are being attacked (don't forget Munich in '72), since we support Israel the state.Who was atacked in Munich?Terrorists and non-Terrorists alike, Arab and converted Moslems, have a big problem with the Palestinian situation. Some have an issue with Israel's mere existence. Many in the Middle East use it as a scapegoat because they're unable to do anything about their own situation. The mullahs in Iran frequently rail against their "enemy", the Zionist entity. There's a saying in Iran that translates roughly to, "The hell with the Palestinians, we have our own problems.", in response.Isreal's presence in the Middle East, and Israel versus the Palestinians, are complex issues. But I'll wager that Osama bin Laden and his like hate the government of Saudi Arabia as much as they hate Israel.

Smooches, no politician answers questions during debates. It is the national pastitime to see how evasive they can be. All eyes are on the president. He must appear calm and in control during any crisis. This is supposed to then influence the rest of us here in America. It is part of his job to appear cool and collected. Would you want someone in office who panics and screams and runs around in little confused circles to run the country, or someone who seems to be incontrol during crisis?

Lol, well I would least want him to have a wrinkle on his forhead and say oh boy time fo me to DO SOMETHING. Not just go oh really they fell well let me finish reading pinnochio and then I'll see what I can do. And if you listen to his speech or hear him talk it's like what does that mean. If i had a penny for everytime he said "evildoers" I'd be rich.

> no politician answers questions during debates

If he did, he'd risk alienating a lot of potential voters, and nothing is more important than getting elected.

> He must appear calm and in control during any crisis.

That sure raised Guiliani's popularity right after 9/11. It couln't have come at a better time for him. He was looking like a mega-jerk, the way he was handling his divorce.

In times of crisis, people feel secure with a leader who looks like he knows what he is doing, whether or not he actually does.

Took a day off from work today as my brother wasback at home and went to see him and gave him the biggest hug EVER. Have not hugged my brother since my youngest was born so it was about time and has really made me sit up and think that life is much too short and from now on I am going to get closer to my bro. So glad your friends were ok Angel it is the worst feeling ever isn't it waiting to hear from them.

In a strange way it has made me look at my life and realise I have a bloody good life and to make the most of every day. Treated myself to some yummy shoes today-will give me blisters but what the hell.Hugged my brother and rang my Mum and Dad and told them I loved them.(Not done that ever before!!) Have had a big smile on my face all day. Resisted telling everyone I loved them but am making a concious effort to get on with my life and be happy.

Although I don't know anyone involved in the London bombing, I do know what it feels like to not know if someone is alive or not and how helpless it can feel. Back at Christmas when the tsunami hit my cousin was in Zanzibar with friends. We didn't hear from him untill days after. It didn't effect the part of the island he was on, but he only realised a few days later that we might be worried about him. For some reason he never answered his mobile, proably on the beaches or climbing all day.

Yes hun the helpless feeling is the worst. Everyone was telling me he would be ok but all I kept thinking was that he was my brother and although we aren't really close I love him to bits and all I could do was sit on the ward waiting. Whatever I did could not change what had happened and I feel so sorry for anyone who has ever lost anyone in this or similar way.

In reply to: The problem is that money is being sucked out of scientifically useful programs, and it's being diverted to scientifically useless and very expensive programs like the space station, and manned missions to the moon and Mars. I agree with you Steve. One of my biggest complaints with most governments is that they spend so much money on things that are good, but should be way down the line on the list of priorities. Fer instance, here in Kentucky they are getting ready to spend millions of taxpayer dollars on a new stadium for U of L (thereby raising my tuition) when social services are really suffering from lack of funding. Makes me want to bite a tree.I really wish I had time to read this discussion between you and Vincubus. Attention all posters and lurkers...this is a good way to get both sides of a story. What I mean is, you are both smart fellows who think things through, so a debate on anything between you two would be informative. I'll come back and read it soon.As for the war...and please don't have a heart attack...I am really thinking and rethinking my view of the whole matter. I am a conservative Republican. I voted for Bush twice and would do it again. I supported the war in Afghanistan, obviously, and still basically believe there was reason to go into Iraq. However, speaking of priorities, I am beginning to question the wisdom of continuing to spend so much time, effort, money, and military capital in Iraq when al Quada is obviously still wreaking havoc in the world.So now everyone can pull their jaws up off the floor and have a nice day.