Just live your life...

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Evangelicalism is wrong and against God's wishes.Hebrews 8:6-136But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.------------Interpretation? For me, it says that you should forget the laws of the old testament. It says that God has put his truth inside the hearts of everyone and that their sins are not important. I think He is saying to just trust people, trust society. The evils that are committed are an inevitability of the free choice that He has given us and so is the justice that we act out ourselves. So, is slavery wrong? It is if we choose it to be, which we have, despite what both the Old and New Testament say about it.Is rape wrong? It is if we choose it to be, which we have, despite what both the Old and New Testament say about it.Is the death penalty wrong? It is if we choose it to be, which most of the western world has, despite what both the Old and New Testament say about it.When I say choose I mean that we come to a conclusion, using logical reasoning. We chose that rape is wrong because it is damaging to society and it hurts the people we love. While some may enjoy the act of raping, nobody could enjoy being raped. Just as nobody would want to be killed, or to be a slave.I do not believe in God, but if I was ever to find reason or inspiration from the Bible, it would be from this Chapter because it says to me that I don't need to believe in Him to be a good person.

Quote:I don't need to believe in Him to be a good person. therein lies the great devide between several sects of Christianity. Many fundamentalists feel that, no matter how good you are, you're damned if you don't accept Christ into your heart as your one and true savior. This is also the reason some fundamentalists have an objecton to Free Masonry. Masonic philosphy teaches that virtue and morality come above the worship of a specific deity... believe in god, any god you choose, but be a good man

"Be a good man." Now...where did that concept of good and evil come from again?

Originally Posted By: unsupervisedThis is also the reason some fundamentalists have an objecton to Free Masonry. Masonic philosphy teaches that virtue and morality come above the worship of a specific deity... believe in god, any god you choose, but be a good man I've never understood this. Why should anyone care about a persons beliefs or lack there of as long as that person, or organization, is doing or trying to do good. The parish priest is found of calling Masons "satanist." He says because they put a humanistic organization before their relationship with God it therefor makes them satanists. I think he's full of shit, of course I'm not exactly what one would consider a good or even fair Catholic. The dichotomy of my deeply spiritual atheism will, I'm sure, relegate me to the seventh level of a hell I don't believe in.Anyway, I just always thought Masons were goofy. I mean, as long as their raising money and helping kids great. I just don't get the big secret shit and the funky aprons and symbols. But hey, as long as it works for them and their enjoying themselves and trying to make the world a little better place, go with god... of course with them it does have to be the Christian god... we wouldn't want to get to carried away and be overly inclusive.

Originally Posted By: thor"Be a good man." Now...where did that concept of good and evil come from again? Thor, I hope you don't think the concept of good and evil came from the bible...? The concept of good and evil has been around for thousands of years and is evident in just about every religion, well before Christianity came about.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself

Originally Posted By: thor

"Be a good man." Now...where did that concept of good and evil come from again? :wink:

Thor, I hope you don't think the concept of good and evil came from the bible...?

No, not the Bible...from God. But you can find it discussed in the Bible. :grin:

That's my point...there is no "good" without God. And without the concept of good and evil, we're just animals.

Originally Posted By: thor Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself Originally Posted By: thor"Be a good man." Now...where did that concept of good and evil come from again? Thor, I hope you don't think the concept of good and evil came from the bible...? No, not the Bible...from God. But you can find it discussed in the Bible. That's my point...there is no "good" without God. And without the concept of good and evil, we're just animals. Did you read my post or just Mr.U's response? Because I actually address this directly in the last two paragraphs.And anyway, we are just animals. We just have what we would consider the advantage of advanced reasoning.

Originally Posted By: thorThat's my point...there is no "good" without GodMaybe I am just a "Bad Christian", but I don't like that statement. I strongly believe a person can be good and not be a believer. Lord knows just because you are a Christian doesn't make you "good", there are a lot of bad Christians out there.Actually it's pretty funny this conversation is coming up because on the ride to the cabin for my vacation, my friend and I had a discussion whether we think God takes into consideration how the person lived their life even if they were a non-believer. For example, say Bob lived an honorable and good life. He treated people fairly and didn't judge and was courteous to everyone, but he’s an atheist/agnostic. Would God take into consideration that Bob lived a “good” life whether or not he goes to heaven, or because Bob never accepted God into his heart he would be turned away and sent to hell? (if you believe in hell, I personally don’t but that’s another discussion lol). It’s a hard one to decide because as Christian you are taught that the only way into heaven is to be saved; accept God into your heart. But I have a hard time believing that God would turn away a “good” person just because in his mortal life he was a non-believer. But I also know I am probably the minority in this thinking.

Originally Posted By: thorAnd without the concept of good and evil, we're just animals. We're animals with or without the concept. As a matter of fact, as animals, we're quite similar to rats and pigs. We're only special in as much as we think such of ourselves.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfBut I have a hard time believing that God would turn away a “good” person just because in his mortal life he was a non-believer.I know what you mean, but that's what the Bible says. My intellect has a hard time swallowing it...but I'm not the one making the decision for others on this.As for there being no "good" without God, I think you miss what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a person's behavior...I'm talking about the concepts of good and evil as we understand them.

Originally Posted By: OldFolks Originally Posted By: thorAnd without the concept of good and evil, we're just animals. We're animals with or without the concept. As a matter of fact, as animals, we're quite similar to rats and pigs. We're only special in as much as we think such of ourselves. I disagree...I think there's more to us than meets the eye. We have spirit and a soul...things that animals lack.When I said that without the concepts of good and evil we're animals, I'm referring to our behavior...since without a higher moral to live up to, and the ability to choose good over evil, we will degrade into behavior that is no different from that of animals.

Originally Posted By: thor As for there being no "good" without God, I think you miss what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a person's behavior...I'm talking about the concepts of good and evil as we understand them. Gotcha, I miss understood.

Originally Posted By: thorI disagree...I think there's more to us than meets the eye. We have spirit and a soul...things that animals lack. Maybe because I am such an animal lover.. but I believe animals have souls. I believe when the day comes I'm in heaven I won't only be greeted by the past relatives and friends I lost but also the beloved pets I lost along the way. Not sure if you ever read the poem "Rainbow Bridge" but I speculate it will be something like that.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfIt’s a hard one to decide because as Christian you are taught that the only way into heaven is to be saved; accept God into your heart. But I have a hard time believing that God would turn away a “good” person just because in his mortal life he was a non-believer. But I also know I am probably the minority in this thinking.I think your right Eddie. The key to what your saying is "as a Christian." This is an example of dogma getting in the way of sound philosophy. How can any god be an omnipotent do-good(er), not willing to intervene, forgiving and full of love yet would condemn good people to hell for not being Christian or whatever. For if God is going to condemn someone to hell simply for not believing in him than how can God be love or full of forgiveness? It's a contradiction of philosophical thought.Strip away the dogma and look at the fucking message of Jesus and it's pretty fucking simple... be good to one another.The whole Jesus thing is kinda funny. It's like a fight on a message board. The subject was be good to one another but there's always some fuck there to pick it apart and say, "Yeah, but here you said..." and Jesus has to come back and defend what he said there and try to explain it and then somebody else comes along and injects something that doesn't even make sense and pretty soon the whole message is lost with each side calling the other hypocrites and assholes and stupid and nobody even remembers what the thread was supposed to be about.Fuck dogma, that's my two cents.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfNot sure if you ever read the poem "Rainbow Bridge" but I speculate it will be something like that. Just because its one of my favorite poems of all time I am going to post it... but you know I am such a loser, I started to read it and started tearing up like a dork. sigh  Quote:Rainbow Bridge Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge. When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable. All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind. They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster. You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart. Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together.... Author unknown...

Quote: of course with them it does have to be the Christian god... we wouldn't want to get to carried away and be overly inclusive.nope, any god will do. Here are Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, etc. When a candidate declares his belief in god, no one says "oh yeah? which one?"  Quote:He says because they put a humanistic organization before their relationship with God it therefor makes them satanists actually, the craft is about improving one's relationship with his maker. But it's not a religion, just an organisation.

See I just know all kinds of shit about Masons.

well, you actually seemed to know a bit more about it than average. Some people get all their facts from the Simpsons and Fred Flinstone

I know a thing or two about it also.