Gay Married.... How to keep wife satisfied?

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I couldn't put it any better myself Chance. So I'll just say I completely agree.

Originally Posted By: Grvtykllr

two things "Nobody needs to make it about God Chase,"
I really fucking hate that Iv been called chase my whole life, there is no s its an nce not a se.

Typo alert! - Excuse me! ChaNCE it is, lol!

Originally Posted By: Grvtykllr

Its not abotu what god says is OK its about what hte OP feels and using god against him just because he believes in god is a shitty tactic.

First off; the OP quoted a scriptural passage from Genesis a couple of pages back in support of his own Biblically based beliefs that females are pure and males are not as regards sexual partners for men. If a person is going to quote the Bible at me in support of their argument and then display hypocrisy regarding the practical application of its contents to their own life they can expect to be called up on Bible teaching - that is not "a shitty tactic" in my view - that's what I'd call common sense.

And secondly; I notice you've changed your tone significantly since the early pages in this thread when you were condemning the OP's intentions as: "Fucking disgusting". You either think it's fucking disgusting or you don't; I don't understand how you can change your view so quickly, maybe you find yourself easily swayed by popular opinion, but I don't. My views are my own and I don't change them to slot in with whatever the majority happen to be expressing.

This is the portion of your earlier post I'm referring to Chance, by the way:

Originally Posted By: Grvtykllr

to lie to a person and have kids with them and all the time they think you love them and are attracted to them the full time knowing your not, is fucking disgusting.

Your seem to be still offering your opinion based on presumption that you know and understand everything that is going on in this guys life and head.My statement that arguing about God is a distraction from the problem at hand was directed not just at you but Jase as well, and anybody else that cares to careen off into that chasm.

thank you! that honestly does drive me batshit.and heres the deal on why I swiveled directions.He is going to do what he does, I still think its wrong to do it, I think its totally wrong, but, rather than focus on why its wrong, that is getting nowhere with him, why not focus on what he can do ?hes made up his mind, he will do it, no amount of arguing will change that, maybe he can be steered to making a better choice in who to marry, and if he finds a woman thats in the know and is Ok with it who the fuck are to say its wrong?There are a lot of couples that dont do the sex bit and are happy with each other.If hes being honest and finds a girl accepting of it why kick him? if it works for them both it sure as hell shouldnt be a problem for us.Im still thinking honesty is the best policy, but if he is honest and shes fine it its a working relationship with nothing unhealthy about it.He wants a wife and kids, hes going to have them. Rather than focus on whats wrong with it I prefer to try and be more open minded and focus on what he can do to make it a livable condition for both of them.Ever hear you get more flys with honey than with shit?No one responds well to a negative argument, it only pushes them further away and pisses them off more.Jase comes across as someone already stressed enough about his life, he doesnt need to be kicked any more, hes had enough and is trying to find a solution to his problem, not find a way to avoid what he feels.Read the whole thread again, its obvious that he cant or wont change his mind, so whats wrong with a bit of compassion and helping him out instead of just repeating the same shit over and over.do what you always did and youll always get the same results.part of the point of this board is compassion and understanding. Hes not breaking laws,hes not threatening to kill people or blow up the capitol, hes trying to find a way to make his life work for him.Trust me, anyone that knows me knows its impossible to sway me just because the popular vote says Im wrong. Iv charmed more girls out of their panties than youv owned panties in your entire life time. its called switching tactics. I still believe what i said earlier, but its not working, its time to try to find a different solution instead of just keeping to hit him on the nose with a rolled up paper telling him he is wrong.

Chance I would agree with you but he has also said over and over again he will refuse to tell this lady that he is gay. I have little compassion for someone who's going to screw around with another persons heart, not to mention lie and deceive a person for their own personal gain regardless how much it's going to hurt her.Basically he came to this site to ask how he can lie and deceive a woman so he can get what he wants, which is a family (which he could get obtain in a homosexual relationship where he would not be hurting another human being as I stated earlier). In my opinion that's not what these boards are for.

Originally Posted By: Grvtykllr

Second, THe OP belives in god, and wotn seek help through ihs church, but his reasons for doing so are personal,...
...Its not abotu what god says is OK its about what hte OP feels and using god against him just because he believes in god is a shitty tactic.
...personally Id wipe my ass with a bible if I had one on hand instead of toilet paper.

Chance (is it your real name?), thank you for your post... I never said that I refuse to seek help within my "church"... in fact, I have done so, not exactly from "church elders" - I am afraid their response may be too impatient if not aggressive - but from trained counsellors who belong to the same "church". They do in fact have a full-fledged program that allegedly help you "treat", if not "combat" homosexuality. I have been through the initial phases of it, and I must say that I do believe that you can accomplish much IMPROVEMENT on the program. The program is very long and enduring and requires commitment on the part of the patient as well as the counsellor... The idea is that, through a series of punishment and reward exercises, you would have to channel your sexual energy elsewhere, when the doors to same sex are completely locked and the keys thrown in the ditch. In any case, what is relevant here is that one of the final steps of the program is to actually get married, and no where on it is there a requirement to disclose your "past" temptations to the future wife. I really doubt it, big time, that every married person discloses every thought or temptation that goes through their minds to their spouses. That would be silly and unrealistic. In fact, I believe that one of God's blessings is that we are able to hide what goes through our minds from others, lest it hurts them unnecessarily. This is no lying. This is not telling anything other than the truth. This is being selective in what we disclose.

I was asked time and again on this thread, what my religion is and where in the world I am located. It was exactly for the language you (or others) use/would use about God and the Bible, in this case, that I have refused to answer, with all due respect to your opinion.

well Im on your side as to him needing to tell her, but im on his side as to his over all mental and physical health, and the end result being his coming out of this ok in the end and jase, yes my name is Chance, Iv had it since 1971, long before it became popular to name your kid chance and long before homeward bound was written.
I agree also that you have th right to keep your name, your version of god, and where you live all private.
Some of us choose not to, others keep it secretive.

Did the people offering the "treatment" program not address any of these things that are now a concern to you? What did they say would be the end result upon your completion of the program? Didn't they give you any tools to help you throughout your life? How much did they actually address sexual arousal, or did they? Do you feel comfortable telling us more about the program?

Originally Posted By: Grvtykllr

if he finds a woman thats in the know and is Ok with it who the fuck are to say its wrong?

I'd never in a million years put any couple down for making that choice in their marriage Chance, never. How two people (married or otherwise) decide to conduct their own union is their own business. The point here is that it is not a couple doing the deciding; it is, as Ntro has just pointed out, one person doing the deciding for both of them and there's just no other way to view that as far as I'm concerned other than wrong.

I do get what you're saying about going round in circles on the same issue and ending up feeling like you're banging your head against a brick wall; still though, I reckon if you found out the woman in question was your sister or daughter you'd be back to "fucking disgusting" pretty damn fast.

& Oldfolks; I am basing my views on the same thing everyone else is basing theirs on, which is the OP's own words on this thread.

Anyway, I think I've had enough of this discussion. To be honest I am finding it saddening and depressing that choices like this are presumed by some to be acceptable in this world.

"I really doubt it, big time, that every married person discloses every thought or temptation that goes through their minds to their spouses. That would be silly and unrealistic"

I agree, but we are not talking about that you had a beer at lunch or jerked off to some other girl or thought 'what a bitch' when she was yelling at you. its not a small thing its a major complication.
I dunno man, so much shit, so many ideas and so few options, its a bastard of a case.
I will say though that what you talked about ammounts to aversion therapy, you will never be able to cure being gay, to go through with that course, I think, would only add torture to the rest of your life. If you train yourself to shy off of what it is that actually is felt, I cant imagine ever being happy or content.

your right that iM against it, but what i feel isnt important, the matter at hand is helping another human being and he obviously isnt going to change his mind, there is no point to continue kicking him.I think its a horrid thing to do to another person, I also dont think its worth beating the poor bastard to death!We all said the same thing, it changed nothing. Its time to find something new that might help.For the record though, I know what boys want, if it were my daughter or sister, Id be much more content if they told me they were lesbians than if they said they found a wonderful man they were going to marry.trust me, dont call bullshit on that one, theres tons of shit I keep off these boards, I know that because Iv already been down that road.

Originally Posted By: OldFolks

...are you sure your being honest with yourself?

yes.

Originally Posted By: OldFolks

Spouses generally share their problems and support each other in those problems, that's what builds the relationship and makes it strong, ...being there for one another. Don't you think someone who cares about you would want to know your problems if nothing else to help with them. In binding their life to you and partnering with you don't you think they deserve to know your handicaps in the relationship.

i don't know.

Originally Posted By: OldFolks

Ya know this is not a small thing, while I completely agree that a successful relationship is built on many other things than sex, this isn't about sex. This is about a very large part of you.

i am trying to work on this very large part of me to be able to meet her expectations for as much as possible.

Originally Posted By: OldFolks

While "complete disclosure" is certainly not a requirement of marriage...

i am glad you agree to as much.

Originally Posted By: OldFolks

less [you mean: lest] the gaping hole in your sole will be evident and she will always wonder, more than likely blaming herself... and I know you don't want that.

that's what scares me. however, i will always provide her with a way out of the relationship, if i fail.

Originally Posted By: OldFolks

what is it you fear the most about letting her, or anyone, know? Is it loss of her love, loss of your standing in the community, loss of parental affections, loss of income, loss of the love of God?

none of the above, except for maybe/partially loss of my standing in the community, but that's a minor issue. again i say it is (a) not a subject of discussion at all in my community and (b) i do not think it is relevant. PLUS, i do not think or feel that having homosexual thoughts is what makes me. I do not look or act gay. i do not want to be in a gay relationship, although i find some men attractive/affectionate. if i came out and said, hey i am gay, i would be presenting to the world/my community a new person that i am not even sure is me. i think that being gay involves wanting to live and make a family with a person of the same sex, as ntroducinghimself has described. i do not want that. and, if i did want that more than to be married and have kids, then i would choose a "single, sexless life of loneliness" over the solutions that ntroducing and star suggest/plan/practice.

i do not feel that i am being dishonest with myself, scotty.

Quote:I will say though that what you talked about ammounts to aversion therapy, you will never be able to cure being gay, to go through with that course, I think, would only add torture to the rest of your life. If you train yourself to shy off of what it is that actually is felt, I cant imagine ever being happy or content. And to that I will say AMEN!This is exactly why I made the comment about seeking therapy OUTSIDE the church and to a biast party. Aversion therapy solves nothing; it just buries the problem until it comes to ahead later on in life. It's not a solution by far, just a temporary fix (If even that).You know how many people have committed suicide after attending and going through aversion therapies??? It's saddening. Why try and change a person? Why not instead get the person to accept who they are, and give them tools on how to live their lives being WHO THEY ARE? It’s all ridiculous to me.

wait wait wait, back the fuck up.
just clarify some shit for me because now im thinking we are on a different page than we were before.
you said:

i do not think it is relevant. PLUS, i do not think or feel that having homosexual thoughts is what makes me. I do not look or act gay. i do not want to be in a gay relationship, although i find some men attractive/affectionate. if i came out and said, hey i am gay, i would be presenting to the world/my community a new person that i am not even sure is me.

so your saying that your not sure your gay, you feel some attraction to other men, sometimes here and there but dont even have an inner desire to have sex with them?

because if Im reading htat right, this whole argument is pointless, its all bullshit and your misunderstanding your curiosity and mistaking it for being gay.
if that is the case, this whole conversation is wrong and needs to be started over.
I assumed you were gay, not like I like some men, I think that guys good looking, ID like to be closer to hat guy, I thouth like Id like to fuck that guy, Im not happy with women, I need some dick and that you wanted to cover that up.
We need to clear up what it is you feel and why you think your gay, that part of this can completely change my entire opinion and im sure many others.
have you ever had a sexual relationship with a man? DO you feel your emotionally unable to love a woman as a wife but could love man?
Im so fucking lost right now, you need to clear some shit up make sure we all understand where your coming from.
if its just thinking a guy is good looking or say a close friend that you care about but dont want to fuck, thats a whole other subject.
fuck Ill freely admit to caring about some men, to even thinking they are good looking, fuck Ill admit Iv thouth about fucking a guy and if Id enjoy it. None of that makes me gay. IF its that sorta shit thats got you fucked up looking for help we are approaching this whole thing 100% wrong.

Quote: PLUS, i do not think or feel that having homosexual thoughts is what makes me. I do not look or act gay. i do not want to be in a gay relationship, although i find some men attractive/affectionate. if i came out and said, hey i am gay, i would be presenting to the world/my community a new person that i am not even sure is me. i think that being gay involves wanting to live and make a family with a person of the same sex, as ntroducinghimself has described. i do not want that. and, if i did want that more than to be married and have kids, then i would choose a "single, sexless life of loneliness" over the solutions that ntroducing and star suggest/plan/practice.Homosexual thoughts are not what makes me either, yet I have embraced the truth that I am a homosexual man. I refuse to let society or my “standing” in a community affect part of who I am, regardless if it’s a small part or a large part. Either you accept all of me, or none of me. Plan and simple.I don’t act gay either, most people are usually pretty shocked after talking and being around me that I am gay. I like sports, going hunting, and go to the gym and work out. Daily activities are not what makes a person gay, it’s their emotional level to another person of the same sex. Because you state you are gay you are a new person? Absolutely not! You are who you are regardless of your sexual orientation. I was the same exact person I was the day before the day I realized and accepted the fact I was gay. Sexuality does not define the man the man defines himself. As for the whole marriage thing… what is a piece of paper that says, “You are married”? If you love someone a piece of paper means squat. Again I have expressed before you could still have a family with someone of the same sex, all kids need is love and support and they blossom. But I understand saying this to you is futile. Regardless what you think, you owe it to this woman to be honest and upfront with her so she knows what she is getting into. It’s unfair for you to decide this marriage on lies and leave her in the dark. Again be a man, and be honest with this woman. It’s the least you can do if you love her… which begs me to ask, do you even love her? Or are you just looking for someone to marry for this Aversion Therapy?

The posts that those have made here.. make people hurt, make people depressed and often make them think about suicide. They do more harm then they good.Read what is says up there... http://www.afraidtoask.com ... not http://www.iwantyouropinion.com.This guy came here for help. Not to be bashed. If you don't have ANYTHING nice to say.. dont say it. And if you are going to say it... don't push so hard to hurt someones feelings.

BY THE WAYJust thought i'd remind you all of this post  Quote: I'm concerned that we are not giving as friendly a response to new posters as we should. I'd like to suggest:1. It's scary to post on a new board for the first time. Everyone seems to know each other and you're new. It's even more scary when you're talking about something that is very personal that you haven't talked about to anyone else before. A friendly response is therefore very important.2. As I've said before, the main purpose of this board isn't to provide a cosy home to old regulars, but to provide helpful answers to people with questions. Therefore new, uncertain, posters are what the board is about.3. Some people have abrasive styles of speaking. Sometimes that is due to nervousness or feeling insecure. Sometimes it is due to other things behind the scenes that we don't know about. (There are some people here with horrific stories.) We should never be quick to take offence.4. Under this new software, new posters don't get shown the dates of posts unless they make a selection in their preferences that they are nowhere told to make. It's therefore not fair to come down hard on people for re-opening old threads. I think it's something we fuss too much about, and cause more trouble over than it's worth. Either the re-opened thread can be left quietly to die again, or the poster can be politely told that the thread is old and the original poster gone. Occasionally, re-opening the thread may actually prove to be worthwhile.

Originally Posted By: pinkranger4This guy came here for help. Not to be bashed. If you don't have ANYTHING nice to say.. dont say it. And if you are going to say it... don't push so hard to hurt someones feelings.Very well said, pinkranger4. You're an angel :-)

Did you get that PM i sent you?