Genocide

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Because this type of situation is still undergoing investigation, the director couldn't say how many clinics she has posed in as a juvenile girl, but she reported it has been dozens. ALL of the clinics violated the law by neglecting to call the authorities, whether it was the police or social services. Linked with Federally funded abortion, this opens the door to taxpayer-funded "population control"...all right under the noses of parents. Wisconsin Planned Parenthood I think if the stats were corrected to show how many abortions actually go on in this country, perhaps folks would wake up and smell the coffee concerning the effects of pre-pubecent "Sex Ed", the media and the Federal government on our young.

thor, thor, you really need to look up the meaning of non sequitur. I don't agree with abortions at all, but the way you argue, it makes the cause you are arguing for seem ludicrous.To start with: "Because this type of situation is still undergoing investigation, the director couldn't say how many clinics she has posed in as a juvenile girl, but she reported it has been dozens". Why can she say it has been dozens but she can't say the exact number? How can "this type of situation is still undergoing investigation" stop her giving a number? It makes no sense at all, and just makes it look very much as if she is lying about the dozens.I don't quite know what a counsellor on the phone would be expected to do. Tell the police that some 14-year-old girl, name and address unknown, has had sex with someone more than two years older, name and address unknown? I bet that would be a revelation to them.Then trying to link the issue to "population control" is just silly. You could possibly link the availability of abortion per se to population control (though then you would have to make the same link to the availability of condoms and other contraceptives), but this is about the possible reporting of illegal sex/child abuse.I'm not quite sure what effects you are talking about in the third paragraph. I'm not sure you know, either.

Originally Posted By: IneligibleHow can "this type of situation is still undergoing investigation" stop her giving a number?Unknown until the investigation is completed and revealed...which doesn't stop you from drawing your conclusion that: Quote:It makes no sense at all, and just makes it look very much as if she is lying about the dozens.Not the first time you've drawn conclusions without knowing what's going on...so by all means, don't stop now. Quote:I don't quite know what a counsellor on the phone would be expected to do.Why not start with doing what they're supposed to? Why not, indeed. Quote:You could possibly link the availability of abortion per se to population control (though then you would have to make the same link to the availability of condoms and other contraceptives)...No, I wouldn't HAVE to...but I would just the same. Quote:...but this is about the possible reporting of illegal sex/child abuse......and about the reason(s) why they don't report it. Quote:I'm not quite sure what effects you are talking about in the third paragraph. I'm not sure you know, either. I realize it's late, but go ahead and engage the brain on the possibilities anyway....just for fun, K?

Quote:Unknown until the investigation is completed and revealed...which doesn't stop you from drawing your conclusionOh thor, thor, are we being just a teensy weensy bit hypocritical? It is mysteriously "unknown" why a woman who claims to made dozens of fake calls with similar results can't count how many there were, and you say it is unknown, but never mind, no doubt when the investigation is completed all will be revealed . . . is this the same guy who has been drawing conclusions that the President of the United States is a Muslim who was not born in the country? Quote:Why not start with doing what they're supposed to? Why not, indeed.Yes, what are they supposed to do? That was my question, which you evidently don't actually know the answer to. I gave a suggestion as to what they are apparently supposed to do - you don't even know if it is correct or not.I'm sorry, thor, but when you say "You should know the answer to that", or words to that effect, you may think you are being clever, but it is utterly transparent to all your readers. You might as well say "I don't know, but I am too cowardly to say so" - it would at least have the virtue of honesty. It would reveal no more than you already reveal. Quote:I realize it's late, but go ahead and engage the brain on the possibilities anyway....just for fun, KSee above. I already gave a possibility, which you confirmed. Quote:No, I wouldn't HAVE to...but I would just the same.Now this really intrigues me. What you object to is the availability of contraception. So you believe that it should be made unavailable - presumably through a government ban? You believe the individual's liberty to choose contraception should be removed?

you see, self proclaimed conservatives scream an objection to government control while constantly striving for ultimate control

Originally Posted By: Ineligible Quote:No, I wouldn't HAVE to...but I would just the same.Now this really intrigues me. What you object to is the availability of contraception. So you believe that it should be made unavailable - presumably through a government ban? You believe the individual's liberty to choose contraception should be removed? OK...I honestly thought about trying to come up with another word to describe your response above, but the only one that truly fits and does justice to it is the word "stupid". (Parotting the party line is NOT engaging the brain...and it shows.)There is a difference between contraceptives being legal and waving them under kids noses at school...complete with formal education on how to use them. (I've realized that, with you, I always have to play "connect-the-dots"...you must have given some of your elementary school teachers fits.)

Originally Posted By: unsupervisedyou see, self proclaimed conservatives scream an objection to government control while constantly striving for ultimate control Not at all. Conservatives want to prevent things from getting out of control...which is what we've been experiencing lately, and what we're heading towards big time right now. Out of control of the people and into the hands of socialists. Any conservative ever given banks a huge bailout like Obama just did? Government run healthcare? A ban on personal fire-arms (Obama's big dream)? What we're looking at is the decimation of the middle classes and an end to democracy...aren't you getting the picture yet???You should also note there is a difference between controlling others and having self-control. Conservatives are for the latter...socialists, the former.

I want you to connect the dots, because you need to. Your thinking is woolly and needs sharpening. (You might like to read Plato's Dialogues.) If you don't in fact object to availability, why did you say you did?What is the reason for your objection to school education on condoms? Its effect on birth rate? Quote:Conservatives want to prevent things from getting out of control...which is what we've been experiencing latelyIndeed we did, when banks lent as if house prices would never stop going up. What did conservatives do to prevent things getting out of control? Quote:Any conservative ever given banks a huge bailout like Obama just did?I can only think of one government that refused to prop up its banks, and that was Greece's - and look at the result. Quote:Out of control of the peopleDon't you mean the rich? The large corporations? What control does the ordinary person have? Quote:What we're looking at is the decimation of the middle classes and an end to democracy...aren't you getting the picture yet???I certainly am getting a picture: Chicken Little running around squawking. The end to democracy because the people didn't vote the way you said they should? The decimation (the word means reduction by a tenth, BTW) of the middle classes - are you forseeing a return to feudalism? Serfs and lords of the manor in the US?

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Any conservative ever given banks a huge bailout like Obama just did?

Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (Bush)

Federal government purchases an initial $25 billion in "secure" bank mortgages from the Canadian chartered banks (Harper)

Although, due to regulation, the Canadian banks didn't need a bailout, Harper needed their support so he plunged Canada into a record deficit after the preceding Liberal government drove us into a surplus.

damn inconvenient this history stuff eh?

Thor, I have some bad news for you. I didn't accept this at face value. Instead, I did some work, and guess what! Originally Posted By: This VideoIf a health professional becomes aware of child sexual abuse, he or she must contact law enforcement immediately.Wisconsin Statutes 48.02, 48.981 Did you know that the Wisconsin Statutes are available online? Yup, you can read them HERE if you would like. Or if you would like to read Chapter 48, the Children's Code, you can find the pdf right HERE. Its interesting to read, if you ever had the inclination to do so.Wisconsin Statute 48.981 - Abused or neglected children and abused unborn children.Subsection 2 clearly states that health/medical professionals are required to report any child sexual abuse. BUT thats not all it says. Originally Posted By: 48.981 sub 2PERSONS REQUIRED TO REPORT. (a) Any of the followingpersons who has reasonable cause to suspect that a child seen bythe person in the course of professional duties has been abused orneglected or who has reason to believe that a child seen by the personin the course of professional duties has been threatened withabuse or neglect and that abuse or neglect of the child will occurshall, except as provided under sub. (2m), report as provided insub. (3):See that bit that I put in bold and italics for you. There is an exception! Lets jump to sub 2m to see what that exception is. Originally Posted By: 48.981 sub 2mEXCEPTION TO REPORTING REQUIREMENT. (a) The purposeof this subsection is to allow children to obtain confidentialhealth care services.(b) In this subsection:1. “Health care provider” means a physician, as defined unders. 448.01 (5), a physician assistant, as defined under s. 448.01 (6),or a nurse holding a certificate of registration under s. 441.06 (1)or a license under s. 441.10 (3).2. “Health care service” means family planning services, asdefined in s. 253.07 (1) (b), 1995 stats., pregnancy testing, obstetricalhealth care or screening, diagnosis and treatment for a sexuallytransmitted disease.(c) Except as provided under pars. (d) and (e), the followingpersons are not required to report as suspected or threatenedabuse, as defined in s. 48.02 (1) (b), sexual intercourse or sexualcontact involving a child:1. A health care provider who provides any health care serviceto a child.4. A person who obtains information about a child who isreceiving or has received health care services from a health careprovider.(d) Any person described under par. (c) 1. or 4. shall report asrequired under sub. (2) if he or she has reason to suspect any of thefollowing:1. That the sexual intercourse or sexual contact occurred oris likely to occur with a caregiver.2. That the child suffered or suffers from a mental illness ormental deficiency that rendered or renders the child temporarilyor permanently incapable of understanding or evaluating the consequencesof his or her actions.3. That the child, because of his or her age or immaturity, wasor is incapable of understanding the nature or consequences ofsexual intercourse or sexual contact.4. That the child was unconscious at the time of the act or forany other reason was physically unable to communicate unwillingnessto engage in sexual intercourse or sexual contact.5. That another participant in the sexual contact or sexualintercourse was or is exploiting the child.(e) In addition to the reporting requirements under par. (d), aperson described under par. (c) 1. or 4. shall report as requiredunder sub. (2) if he or she has any reasonable doubt as to the voluntarinessof the child’s participation in the sexual contact or sexualintercourse.So! How does this apply to the video? Well, lets go through the law and find out!- (b)(2)Planned Parenthood is a family planning service (the secret is in the name) so their services and professionals fall within this section.- (c)Health Care providers do not have to report cases of sexual intercourse involving under age children unless they suspect it fits one of the descriptions of section (d).- (d)(1)She says it was her boyfriend, not a caregiver.- (d)(2)No indication or mention of a mental illness.- (d)(3)No indication or mention that she was unaware of the possible consequences.- (d)(4)No indication or mention of being unconscious or unable to communicate.- (d)(5)No indication or mention of exploitation. She even says initially that her boyfriend didn't know she was under-age, changes her story but gives no indication or mention that he knows her "real" age.- (e)Absolutely no indication or mention that the sexual acts she was partaking in were involuntary.----------------------------------------------So, in conclusion, according to the Wisconsin Statute the Planned Parenthood employee was under no obligation to report anything. Next!

Originally Posted By: unsupervised

Quote:

Any conservative ever given banks a huge bailout like Obama just did?

Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (Bush)

Federal government purchases an initial $25 billion in "secure" bank mortgages from the Canadian chartered banks (Harper)

Although, due to regulation, the Canadian banks didn't need a bailout, Harper needed their support so he plunged Canada into a record deficit after the preceding Liberal government drove us into a surplus.

Completely different circumstances aside, I wouldn't call that huge. Nothing compared to 700+ billion.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousThor, I have some bad news for you. I didn't accept this at face value. Instead, I did some work, and guess what! Originally Posted By: This VideoIf a health professional becomes aware of child sexual abuse, he or she must contact law enforcement immediately.Wisconsin Statutes 48.02, 48.981 Did you know that the Wisconsin Statutes are available online? Yup, you can read them HERE if you would like. Or if you would like to read Chapter 48, the Children's Code, you can find the pdf right HERE. Its interesting to read, if you ever had the inclination to do so.Wisconsin Statute 48.981 - Abused or neglected children and abused unborn children.Subsection 2 clearly states that health/medical professionals are required to report any child sexual abuse. BUT thats not all it says. Originally Posted By: 48.981 sub 2PERSONS REQUIRED TO REPORT. (a) Any of the followingpersons who has reasonable cause to suspect that a child seen bythe person in the course of professional duties has been abused orneglected or who has reason to believe that a child seen by the personin the course of professional duties has been threatened withabuse or neglect and that abuse or neglect of the child will occurshall, except as provided under sub. (2m), report as provided insub. (3):See that bit that I put in bold and italics for you. There is an exception! Lets jump to sub 2m to see what that exception is. Originally Posted By: 48.981 sub 2mEXCEPTION TO REPORTING REQUIREMENT. (a) The purposeof this subsection is to allow children to obtain confidentialhealth care services.(b) In this subsection:1. “Health care provider” means a physician, as defined unders. 448.01 (5), a physician assistant, as defined under s. 448.01 (6),or a nurse holding a certificate of registration under s. 441.06 (1)or a license under s. 441.10 (3).2. “Health care service” means family planning services, asdefined in s. 253.07 (1) (b), 1995 stats., pregnancy testing, obstetricalhealth care or screening, diagnosis and treatment for a sexuallytransmitted disease.(c) Except as provided under pars. (d) and (e), the followingpersons are not required to report as suspected or threatenedabuse, as defined in s. 48.02 (1) (b), sexual intercourse or sexualcontact involving a child:1. A health care provider who provides any health care serviceto a child.4. A person who obtains information about a child who isreceiving or has received health care services from a health careprovider.(d) Any person described under par. (c) 1. or 4. shall report asrequired under sub. (2) if he or she has reason to suspect any of thefollowing:1. That the sexual intercourse or sexual contact occurred oris likely to occur with a caregiver.2. That the child suffered or suffers from a mental illness ormental deficiency that rendered or renders the child temporarilyor permanently incapable of understanding or evaluating the consequencesof his or her actions.3. That the child, because of his or her age or immaturity, wasor is incapable of understanding the nature or consequences ofsexual intercourse or sexual contact.4. That the child was unconscious at the time of the act or forany other reason was physically unable to communicate unwillingnessto engage in sexual intercourse or sexual contact.5. That another participant in the sexual contact or sexualintercourse was or is exploiting the child.(e) In addition to the reporting requirements under par. (d), aperson described under par. (c) 1. or 4. shall report as requiredunder sub. (2) if he or she has any reasonable doubt as to the voluntarinessof the child’s participation in the sexual contact or sexualintercourse.So! How does this apply to the video? Well, lets go through the law and find out!- (b)(2)Planned Parenthood is a family planning service (the secret is in the name) so their services and professionals fall within this section.- (c)Health Care providers do not have to report cases of sexual intercourse involving under age children unless they suspect it fits one of the descriptions of section (d).- (d)(1)She says it was her boyfriend, not a caregiver.- (d)(2)No indication or mention of a mental illness.- (d)(3)No indication or mention that she was unaware of the possible consequences.- (d)(4)No indication or mention of being unconscious or unable to communicate.- (d)(5)No indication or mention of exploitation. She even says initially that her boyfriend didn't know she was under-age, changes her story but gives no indication or mention that he knows her "real" age.- (e)Absolutely no indication or mention that the sexual acts she was partaking in were involuntary.----------------------------------------------So, in conclusion, according to the Wisconsin Statute the Planned Parenthood employee was under no obligation to report anything. Next! Some facts...and some personal opinions of yours couched as facts. With the amount of effort you put into twisting things in an attempt to get them to say the opposite of what they do, I see a future for you as a liberal/socialist politician, bob. Obama can certainly use folks like you!

Originally Posted By: Ineligible

Quote:

Conservatives want to prevent things from getting out of control...which is what we've been experiencing lately
Indeed we did, when banks lent as if house prices would never stop going up. What did conservatives do to prevent things getting out of control?

Nothing...liberals just like you outnumbered them and voted down their attempts to put a stop to it. McCain was one of the ones who tried.

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Quote:

Any conservative ever given banks a huge bailout like Obama just did?
I can only think of one government that refused to prop up its banks, and that was Greece's - and look at the result.

Talk to me about it in another ten years or so. Our suffering at the hands of the socialists is going to be longer and more painful than anything Greece might experience. The Great Depression taught us this lesson...people just like you turn a blind eye to it because the fact that the same mistake is being made again makes you uncomfortable. Perish the thought that you should have to turn off your wide-screen TV, get off your butt and go out and do something other than see to your own amusement.

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Out of control of the people
Don't you mean the rich? The large corporations? What control does the ordinary person have?

The vote. Are you from this planet?

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I certainly am getting a picture: Chicken Little running around squawking.

Go put your head back in the sand where it belongs...it is, after all, more comfortable, yes? :grin:

Quote:Completely different circumstances aside, I wouldn't call that huge. Nothing compared to 700+ billion.As a fraction of GDP of the respective countries, it's about 40% the size. Quote:With the amount of effort you put into twisting things in an attempt to get them to say the opposite of what they do, I see a future for you as a liberal/socialist politician, bob.What a pathetic miserable display you make, thor. Bob has shown that the fundamental legal assumption behind the story was incorrect. You can see it, but can you be man enough to admit it? No, you can't. You vilely make a snide little comment, falsely accusing an honest man of dishonesty. Quote:The Great Depression taught us this lessonThe Great Depression taught the lesson that conservative belt-tightening economics does not stop a depression, but worsens it. It was not until that approach was replaced by stimulus spending that the depression started to ease. That it taught the opposite lesson is in the same class as Holocaust denial. Quote: Perish the thought that you should have to turn off your wide-screen TVIf I have one, where is it? Have you stolen it?(As a totally irrelevant aside, are wide-screen TVs still rare in the US? Here I get the impression that most people have them, and I am the odd man out, watching letterboxed broadcasts on my old CRT. Yet news video from the US is still mainly 4:3.) Quote:The vote. Are you from this planet?Do you mean the choice, every few years, between two parties? If neither party wants to upset the powerful, where is the choice?

Originally Posted By: thor

Some facts...and some personal opinions of yours couched as facts. With the amount of effort you put into twisting things in an attempt to get them to say the opposite of what they do, I see a future for you as a liberal/socialist politician, bob. Obama can certainly use folks like you! :wink:

Interesting lack of information provided there thor. Care to explain exactly how I am wrong?

I'm sure you have more fun just saying that I'm wrong, but you might as well back it up. I've done most of the work for you and provided links to the law in question which should make things easier for you. But somehow I don't think you'll bother...

Originally Posted By: unsupervisedyou see, self proclaimed conservatives scream an objection to government control while constantly striving for ultimate control Would you be okay with rephrasing this as "A self proclaimed conservative"?You're talking about one person (Thor) not all conservatives.

Agreed. Although I'd prefer a change to "Certain self proclaimed conservatives..." since he is not alone, but not a majority.

ok, I can go with "certain" as Bob suggests. My point about "self proclaimed" is that in recent years, especially in the US, there have been some very vocal hate mongers who want to hide behind conservatism.I think it's sad when hatemongers like Beck and Limbaugh claim that they are just supporting conservative values and patriotism. It's a lie.

"Certain" is good.

Originally Posted By: unsupervisedI think it's sad when hatemongers like Beck and Limbaugh claim that they are just supporting conservative values and patriotism. It's a lie. Who told you? How do you know it's a lie? Do you know either of those people? I think it's pretty safe to say you don't. The point I'm making is that you are thinking exactly what you have been told by the liberal media to think...nothing more.Seems to me a lot of folks are speaking out of two different sides of their mouths. They say they are anti-abortion, yet are unwilling to take steps necessary to stop it or at least slow it down. I think they need to reconsider their priorities if they wish to continue to claim they are "anti-abortion".