Conspiracy theory... what do you think?

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The companies do not use resources they coulf use to find cures because it's all about the money. Atleast we agree on that.Drug companies waste a lot of money on useless me-too drugs (like Nexium) that do exactly the same thing as drugs that already exist (like omeprazole, Prilosec, Protonix). It would be better if the research funds were directed elsewhere. But drug companies are private corporations, not charities. Their responsibility, as we've said, is to their shareholders.But what most people don't understand is that drug companies don't do a lot of basic research. That is done mainly at universities and government research laboratories. Drug companies exploit promising research. So your problem is not so much with the drug companies as it is with the university and government research labs, and what they get funding to research.In other words, railing against the drug companies is a big waste of time. You need to convince the federal government, which supports most of the basic research, to fund researchers who are doing work that you like. The idea of a drug company conspiracy is silly, and accomplishes nothing.Targeted therapies are showing great promise for things like cancer treatment (i.e., effective but not toxic), as well as gene therapy. Drug companies already sell targeted therapy agents; I'm sure they'll jump on the gene therapy bandwagon when it becomes profitable.But if you think they can just throw money complex diseases and find a cure, you don't understand the limits of biomedical knowledge. It's not a straightforward engineering problem, like a mission to the moon. A lot of money has been spent on independent researcher to find a cure for AIDS, and they still have a long way to go. There's no drug company standing in the way.___________________________________But the bottom line for herbal remedies is that they have to be shown to work. That it "worked" for someone you know is bullshit. It's completely unacceptable. Why do herbal remedies get a pass and not have to meet any standards? The industry has political pull, so they got congress to get their stuff not to fall under the FDA's regulatory umbrella, as long as they play the game of not making "medical claims" (i.e., that their stuff will cure a particular disease).The issue with most herbal remedies is that:o there is no good evidence that they're (individually) effective. Anecdotal evidence is not good evidence!o there is no way to know whether the amount of active ingredient claimed on the package is accurate, or even closeo there is no way to know whiter a preparation is contaminated or adulterated. Heavy metal contamination is common.o Most people don't have a good understanding of how they react with each other, and with prescription and over-the-counter drugs.It doesn't mean that herbal remedies are no good. It means that it's like the wild west. When you buy them, you don't know what you're getting, and you don't know if it will be effective. It's a faith-based transaction.

Last thing I am going to say (unless..nm). One of the main reason there is no data to support herbal remedies is because not enough research has been done. Why hasn't there been? For one the research and drug companies are not going to "waste" their time and money on a product they will never be able to patten and make money off of. That's the true key!! They will never never never research herbal remedies. Only people that are going to do that are independent hollistic organizations but even than they won't be able to make any of their factual claims because the FDA and FTC will be so far up their butt taking it all away because you cannot state a herb can cure anything because it cannot be pattened. It's an endless, and sick cycle.Reguardless Steve these are my opinions and many other peoples opinions as well. we are never going to see eye to eye on it and it should be respected on both sides that these are oppinions. I am certainly not knocking your beliefs as I would hope you'd have the same respect back. I in no way expect to change your mind and I know you're certainly not going to change mine.. and thats 100% fine!! Not everything in life has to be a debate. This topic will always be just that.. a debate full of opinions and beliefs.

I'm sure that no earthly evidence will dissuade you from your beleifs. Same with someone who's just been faith healed and thinks their cancer is cured. Do you take echinacea for colds? Research has been done on that.If a drug company can do research on herbs and profit from it, they will. If the can't, they won't. As I said, the drug companies are not charitable organizations. But as I said, and you may have missed, most research is done at university and government labs. Take your cause up with them. Or do you just like to complain?My opinion is, "Show me that something is safe and effective, and I'll think it's great!" I'd love to be able to take things that are safe and effective for what ails me, no matter who makes them or wherer they come from. I couldn't care less about drug company profits. But I get the impression that you just believe what you want to believe, and nothing will change your mind.

Or do you just like to complain?Actually no I do not like to complain. Actually incase you haven't figured it out I'm pretty much a free spirited person. I am happy go lucky guy and I let a lot of things go past me and take it without heart (hurtful things that is). If I didn't, I'd be a very very sad person.>But I get the impression that you just believe what you want to believe, and nothing will change your mind.Same can be said about you. Reguardless what I would give you as evidence you'll disguard it with soem random excuse and it wouldn't matter.>Do you take echinacea for colds? Research has been done on that.Yes I do and woo hoo for the researchers on that.. one thing out of how many?? Anyways...>As I said, the drug companies are not charitable organizations. But as I said, and you may have missed, most research is done at university and government labs.Yeah I heard you.. but who do you think funds the research labs? Reversed question, where do you think research labs get their money?? From the drug companies. They research what the drug companies ask to reseach. Supply and demand. (not saying there are not personal studies going on at the labs, but they are after money as well..money makes the world go round!!!). Some money is suppied by the state but drug labs pay more. Who do you thinks going to get the most attention?? Of course the investor who's giving the most money.> "Show me that something is safe and effective, and I'll think it's great!" There are PLENTY of safe natural herbs you can take. Use your google buddy. You make something natural into something to evil. Sad part you have it backwards.. BUT it's your BELIEF and that's FINE.

Or do you just like to complain?> Actually no I do not like to complain. Actually incase you haven't figured it out I'm pretty much a free spirited person. I am happy go lucky guy and I let a lot of things go past me and take it without heart (hurtful things that is). If I didn't, I'd be a very very sad person.If you can get your face out of the narcissistic mirror for a moment, I was saying, "Don't just complain....do something to support your beliefs. Call your congressman. Write your senator. Find out how you can get more funding for university research." I wasn't asking for a self-analysis of your personality.>> But I get the impression that you just believe what you want to believe, and nothing will change your mind.> Same can be said about you. Reguardless what I would give you as evidence you'll disguard it with soem random excuse and it wouldn't matter.In other words, "Nyah nyah, I know you are but what am I?" Well try me. Show me some non-anecdotal evidence! When I point to an authoritative source, your not impressed...something about Googling being bad. After many requests, you posted a long (but good) article (about trench mouth), then preceded not to point out what it said that supported your position (it didn't; you misunderstood it).You never show me evidence. I say show me evidence. Your answer is that nothing will impress me. What a load of crap. You have the motivation to type long posts expressing your personal opinion. Why are you too lazy to do any research?>>Do you take Echinacea for colds? Research has been done on that.> Yes I do and woo hoo for the researchers on that.. one thing out of how many?? Anyways...You've just proven that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. If that's your whole answer, than you are an idiot, and this exchange is a complete waste of time. You don't understand the history of Echinacea, what it was used for, and how it came to be a popular (but apparently totally ineffective) cold treatment in this country.> but who do you think funds the research labs? Reversed question, where do you think research labs get their money?? From the drug companies.Medical research is funded by the federal government, state governments, university endowments, charitable foundations, private donations, and by pharmaceutical companies. And that's just in the U.S.!>> "Show me that something is safe and effective, and I'll think it's great!"> There are PLENTY of safe natural herbs you can take. Use your google buddy. You make something natural into something to evil. Sad part you have it backwards.. BUT it's your BELIEF and that's FINE.OK, you can't show me anything. You take something "natural" and give it supernatural properties. As if just because something is natural, it's wonderful. Lack of research, for whatever reason, doesn't prove that something is good. And religious belief is no substitute for science.I think it's not OK that you express opinions on scientific topics, when you have no grasp of science at all. It's an intellectual crime. You're not giving your opinion on some aesthetic topic; you're propagating incorrect information, regardless of what your GPA was.

If you can get your face out of the narcissistic mirror for a momentROFL! You're calling me narcissistic??? You have no RIGHT judging anyone. You don't even know me let alone have any right to judge my character.>Don't just complain....do something to support your beliefs. Call your congressman. Write your senator. Find out how you can get more funding for university researchWho said I haven't? Guess what I have. but thanks for the suggestion.>I wasn't asking for a self-analysis of your personality.Was giving you a heads up since you haven't been able to figure it out yet.>In other words, "Nyah nyah, I know you are but what am I?" Well try me. Show me some non-anecdotal evidence!Guess I will have to completely repeat myself like every post. Since there have been hardly NO research from the affiliations you are looking for I cannot give you that.. only personal testimonies. Which your google engine can find for you.> (it didn't; you misunderstood it).Oh okay rolls eyes >You never show me evidence. I say show me evidence. Your answer is that nothing will impress me. What a load of crap. You have the motivation to type long posts expressing your personal opinion. Why are you too lazy to do any research?Steve you just like to talk/type.. nothing more. What about this being nothing more than a opinion thread don't you understand. Not everything in life has factual evidence. Open your mind for once LoL.>You've just proven that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. If that's your whole answer, than you are an idiot, and this exchange is a complete waste of time. You don't understand the history of Echinacea, what it was used for, and how it came to be a popular (but apparently totally ineffective) cold treatment in this country.Than stop freakin posting.. and I'm the idiot? Give it a rest. My opinion is my opinion and your opinion is your opinion. It was a simple response for a simple answer. Didn't know you required a book report.>Medical research is funded by the federal government, state governments, university endowments, charitable foundations, private donations, and by pharmaceutical companies. And that's just in the U.S.!I could be going silly, but didn't I say the same thing? Drug companies are a top contributor to research companies. But thanks for agreeing >OK, you can't show me anything. You take something "natural" and give it supernatural propertiesIs your precious google broken?? Than use it! I am not here to give you your information. If you wish to know more about safe natural remedies look them up.>And religious belief is no substitute for scienceWhat does freakin religion have to dow ith this topic?? You keep bringing it up. This is a Natural "drug" vs man-man drug thread....hmmmm....>I think it's not OK that you express opinions on scientific topics, when you have no grasp of science at all. It's an intellectual crime. You're not giving your opinion on some aesthetic topic; you're propagating incorrect information, regardless of what your GPA was. babe.. get a grip..seriously. This is an opinion based topic. Not everything is going to have factual evidance. You have yourself so set in a direction of "give me facts now now now"..guess what? Not everything in life is that simple. I dunno how to make it any more clear. But one thing I know for sure your ego will make sure you get the last word. Guess my "GPA" has taught me one thing.. common sense and common curtesy not to treat people like shit. I accept people for who they are and the opinions they have. I have no need to call people idiots or ignorant. The world has many different people in it, and you have to accept them all. I have no need to try and hurt anyones feelings or degrade them. And don't worry (not that I think you worry) you have not hurt my feelings, I accept thats just how you deal with things.Good Day.

If you can get your face out of the narcissistic mirror for a moment> ROFL! You're calling me narcissistic??? You have no RIGHT judging anyone. You don't even know me let alone have any right to judge my character.I'm not evolution the entirety of your personality. I do have a right to evaluate what you type. "I - me - my" is fine in questions of taste and when relating personal experiences, but it's not appropriate in all contexts.>> Don't just complain....do something to support your beliefs. Call your congressman. Write your senator. Find out how you can get more funding for university research> Who said I haven't? Guess what I have. but thanks for the suggestion.Great! Then I hope the research that you would like to have happen gets going as quickly as possible.>> I wasn't asking for a self-analysis of your personality.> Was giving you a heads up since you haven't been able to figure it out yet.Frankly I don't care about your personality. I care about the fuzzy thinking and dearth of logic you express in topics that would benefit from a little clear thinking. It's true for infectious diseases, it's true for nutrition, it's true for astrophysics, it's true for a lot of things.>> In other words, "Nyah nyah, I know you are but what am I?" Well try me. Show me some non-anecdotal evidence!> Guess I will have to completely repeat myself like every post. Since there have been hardly NO research from the affiliations you are looking for I cannot give you that.. only personal testimonies. Which your google engine can find for you.Are you equating personal testimonies and anecdotal evidence with truth? I really hope not. Are you equating them with well-done scientific studies? The lack of studies does not make your case. You seem to think that the studies that have been done are without merit.Taking Echinacea for colds is just ignorant. You might as well go to a faith healer or wave a baked chicken over your head, for all the good it will do.>> You never show me evidence. I say show me evidence. Your answer is that nothing will impress me. What a load of crap. You have the motivation to type long posts expressing your personal opinion. Why are you too lazy to do any research?> Steve you just like to talk/type.. nothing more. What about this being nothing more than a opinion thread don't you understand. Not everything in life has factual evidence. Open your mind for once LoL.Religious belief = clinging to irrational belief. If you think that's true for nutrition, you are utterly ignorant of science. The body is not a bag of magic. Your beliefs (some of which are ridiculous) are not true just because you believe them. Seriously, if you came into a university-level science class with that attitude, you'd be kicked out on your ass. Or failed.>> You've just proven that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. If that's your whole answer, than you are an idiot, and this exchange is a complete waste of time. You don't understand the history of Echinacea, what it was used for, and how it came to be a popular (but apparently totally ineffective) cold treatment in this country.> Than stop freakin posting.. and I'm the idiot? Give it a rest. My opinion is my opinion and your opinion is your opinion. It was a simple response for a simple answer. Didn't know you required a book report.It would also be stupid if it was your opinion that the earth was flat, and Newton's laws don't apply on Tuesdays. It would be stupid if you decided that 3 + 5 = 2. Some things are what they are, regardless of your opinion. If someone is fooled into thinking that you actually have some idea what you're talking about, they might actually waste their money or harm their health following your crackpot ideas.>> Medical research is funded by the federal government, state governments, university endowments, charitable foundations, private donations, and by pharmaceutical companies. And that's just in the U.S.!> I could be going silly, but didn't I say the same thing? Drug companies are a top contributor to research companies. But thanks for agreeingI guess we're totally screwed then. All of the funding from non-drug company sources doesn't count, and the drug companies aren't going to do what you'd like.>> OK, you can't show me anything. You take something "natural" and give it supernatural properties>Is your precious google broken?? Than use it! I am not here to give you your information. If you wish to know more about safe natural remedies look them up.Lazy guy, you make the claim, you back it up, or you really give the impression that you are full of crap. You are full of crap. It's pathetic that you don't realize it.>> And religious belief is no substitute for science> What does freakin religion have to dow ith this topic?? You keep bringing it up. This is a Natural "drug" vs man-man drug thread....hmmmm....As I said above, clinging fast to irrational ideas is religious belief.>> I think it's not OK that you express opinions on scientific topics, when you have no grasp of science at all. It's an intellectual crime. You're not giving your opinion on some aesthetic topic; you're propagating incorrect information, regardless of what your GPA was.> babe.. get a grip..seriously. This is an opinion based topic. Not everything is going to have factual evidence. You have yourself so set in a direction of "give me facts now now now"..guess what? Not everything in life is that simple. Not everything in life is that simple, eh? Chucking critical though and logic, and just believing what you want to believe is not simple? Your thought process is simple. Human health fall into the domain of science. It is not voodoo, although that's the only tack you seem to be able to take.> But one thing I know for sure your ego will make sure you get the last word.Let's see how your ego is doing. Pot. Kettle. Black?> Guess my "GPA" has taught me one thing.. common sense and common curtesy not to treat people like shit.Well it didn't teach you shit about clear thinking, logic, or science. You choose what lies outside of the domain of science, come up with some appealing beliefs, and you're done. If everyone followed your thought processes, we'd be living on the plains and eating bugs.> I accept people for who they are and the opinions they have.What does that mean? It doesn't mean that you agree with them. I accept that you have some wrong-headed ideas.> I have no need to call people idiots or ignorant. The world has many different people in it, and you have to accept them all.Your ideas toward rational thought are ignorant. Do you seriously think there are no ignorant people? Aren't you wonderful. You don't have to waste any time finding people who are good at what they do.> I have no need to try and hurt anyones feelings or degrade them. And don't worry (not that I think you worry) you have not hurt my feelings, I accept thats just how you deal with things.You post ignorant crap, and I will call you on it. If you don't like it, go find some herbalist board where you can admire the other posters' cleverness, and they can admire yours.

Didn't even read the post I simply just laughed because here I though I was wrong about your macho ego and you actually stopped responding...I was wrong..

It's funny that you think you're superior, though, Mr. I-Me-My.

yup.. I'm the one that thinks I'm superior ...

Yes. For whatever reason, you'll keep posting, and I'll keep posting, and you attribute untoward motivations to my continued posting, but you're oblivious to your own continued posting. Yet you're so attuned to how you feel about everything. Ironic, no? Look in the mirror, dude.I don't care what you post, and about what. But if you continue to post nonsense (which seems to happen when the topic is not on the order of "How do you feel about..."), I will continue to call you on it.

How about you do me a favor and everyone else a favor. No longer comment on any post I make and I'll dot he same for you. It's pretty sad that (I'm guessing) A grown man liek yourself cannot accept peoples OPINIONS without judging them. Again I state.. don't comment on my posts and I will not comment on yours and everyone will have a find day.Take Care!

Somehow I expected a reply. Is it a macho thing?> No longer comment on any post I make and I'll dot he same for you.Forget about it. When you comment about "how it feels to...", then I don't care what you say. When you say something on the order of "1 + 2 = 5", and I ask you why, and your answer is "Because lots of people told me so", I will call you on it.Rather than complaining, it would be a lot more productive if you'd get a clue.

Ever think maybe people don't care about your opinions? You seriously are the most self absorbed, pig-headed, ignorant male I've talk to. You cannot even simply take a ratiol approach to this situation. If you don't like me and don't like my posts, thats fine. But not everyone cares about what you think about me or think about them. There is no need to pick apart someones post when it's all about their OPINION!!! Lord what part of that word don't you seem to understand.. OPINION!! IT'S what I believe.. doesn't mean you have to believe it.. that's why it's an OPINION. There are no right and wrong answers to an OPINION. Are you THAT hard headed that you cannot understand that?? My god what is seriously wrong with you?If you don't like me than ignore my posts and leave it at that, don't be an annoyance to everyone else.

back to your corners you two

The macho pissing contest continues...

> Ever think maybe people don't care about your opinions?
My opions on what? All things? Some things? Replies to your nonsense? Do people care about your opinions? Have you taken a poll?

I've made it as simple as possible, but you refuse to understand. You just keep coming back with opinion, opinion, opinion. If that's the only context in which you can think, then consider my responses as opinions. Consider everything in your math and science textbooks opinion as well, if that's what floats your boat.

But the reality is that not all subjects benefit from your opinion, or anyone elses. Taking a poll on what the value of pi should be is silly. You seem not to have an understanding of or respect for science, and that is sad. That makes you a bad influence. That is my opinion.

Steve I give up..leave it at that. You wanted to hear you won the debate.. grats you won! I'm just tired of reading your babble.

I'm not out to win a debate, and a debate about your lack of a grasp on science would be silly and uninteresting. You just don't get it at all. Not at all. The subject here is not whether or not I'm an a**h*le. That can be a separate discussion, if you like. The point is that your opinion on a topic for which there is and/or can be objective information is not tantamount to truth.

The only glimmer of hope would be the faintest hint of self-reflection on your part. This discussion was a waste of time, and no one won anything.

lord... you just don't give up...sad.../sigh.Let.....it......go.....

You're proving my point....the thing about self-reflection.Shall I copy the post above and paste it here?