Fair or unfair? The Schiavo case

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In reply to:I can honestly say, I would not want to live like a vegatable.Then you agree with the vast majority of Americans.In reply to:Whether her brain functions are there or notForgetting the Schiavo case for a moment, lets say you have someone about whom everyone agree has a completely non-functioning brain. Who does it benefit to keep that person alive?Would it be OK to if someone who's in a terminal state refuses nutrition? Or would that be bad, because if withholding life support from someone else is tantamount to murder, withholding it from yourself is suicide?Would it be OK to withhold life support from someone with a living will (advanced directive), when the conditions to do so comport with the directive-writer's wishes?

Are you talking to me directly? Because I didn't say it was murder/suicide. I just gave my opinion to the question.
If anything, I think it's torture to let a person starve to death. Brain dead or not. I would rather see Jack Kevorkian give her a quick painless death. But then again, Steve, that is my OPINION.

The first sentence was directed to you. The rest was general discussion.It's nice to know what your opinion is, but it would be cooler to know what formed your opinions. If we're just taking a poll, there are more efficient methods to gather data.

I'm not responding to you anymore.

...although I will add to the discussion that you not get unvarnished facts from what the husband says on Larry King either.

You just did! But I appreciate your analytical posts.

No argument there. But folks can get more useful info if they seek out sources other than Larry King, Fox News, and the Springfield Shopper.

In fact, out of all of them, Larry King has the least to offer. He's a terrible interviewer. But if the issue is what the husband thinks, listening to what the husband says has some value, no?

The courts seemed to be satisfied that she had made her wished known to her husband and to others. I'm not sure what else we have to go by. Her parents seem to deny it, but I'm not sure what their reasoning is.

Terri Schiavo is brain damaged, and there is nothing that her doctors can do for her. The way I see it is the body that is lieing in that bed isn't Terri, it's just the shell of a person who used to be Terri Schiavo. Now people might say "Oh but they could find a cure in a few years," but be honest with yourself, would you want your body to be hooked up to machines for the rest of your life based on some sliver of hope of finding a cure that probably will not happen in our lifetimes? Now I will admit that starvation is inhumain (it's euthanasia by omission), but forcing that poor woman to live like that is just as bad.

Don't you think that, in a case like this, where there is no irrefutable proof or clear conclusions that could be drawn on either side, it's best to err on the side of life. Wouldn't you rather let her live and then find out in the great hereafter that it would have been ok to kill her, than to kill her and then find out in the great hereafter that some of the "evidence" for it was wrong?just a thought...

In reply to:to kill herDo you see this as an emotionally charged phrase, like "right to life"?

Ok, the fact that the president got out of bed to sign a bill that was essentially written for one person is a frightening president. Congress may as well toss out everything else they are working on and wait for the flood. In reply to: And a lot of folks who tout right to choose bumper stickers are the ones saying "let her die". Your point?Who? I'm sure there are some, but show me one who's in the public eye. The point is that there is a strong correlation between people who are against abortion and people who want to have the feeding tube reinserted. There is also a commonality among activists in both cases (Randall Terry is an example). How about the Catholic church? They are against abortion but support the right to a dignified death. They have spoken on this repeatedly.Which brings the question of Terri's soul. If one beleives in the afterlife and Terri's counsious mind left 15 years ago, where does her "essence" sit and wait for the soul to be released? Or will she be a veg. in heaven too?On a more practical note, her family has been stuck in mourning for 15 years. Terri is gone, just her shell survives. Whether they realise it or not, they need closure.I still don't think starving her is humane but, in someone's twisted word, it's more moral than euthenasia.

Before modern medicine, Terri would have been dead within a short while after her affliction took place 15 years ago. Modern medicine is great if it can cure or prolong a "meaningful" life. What is meaningful about hers? Nothing.

(I hope this doesn't sound mean), but who are you to say she doesn't have a "meaningful" life? My son has Down Syndrome. There are different levels of mental retardation in Down's, and we are hopeful that he is less severe. In any case he is not going to be a doctor or lawyer. Most likely he won't be more than a grocery bagger at the supermarket. Does this make his life less "meaningful"?

Are you comparing your son to Terri? If you are, you are way off base. Your son can eat, drink, walk, etc... perhaps he may need assistance, but Terri can do none of the above. You comparison does not make sense. And please tell me what is meaningful in her life? Sometimes medicine goes too far to preserve something that was not meant to be. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to generalize, but in her case she should have died 15 yrs ago.

It appears that Terri Schiavo does not have a functioning cerebral cortex. (The results of the imaging studies are very striking...there is liquid where brain tissue should be.)This is a very big difference.

No, I'm not comparing the two. I'm saying I don't really think it's fair for you to say her life is meaningless. Like someone may say a kid with Downs has a meaningless life because he won't grow to do great things or whatever. Kind of like "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Her family seems to find some meaning in her life.
I take my son to a specialty doctor and I see all kinds of kids that are wheel chair bound, thier hands and feet are all twisted and crippled up, and they can't talk. But I do see them laugh, and smile , and cry. And I just got to believe that thier life has some other purpose that you or I may not understand.
In Terry's case, I don't know what to believe because there is so much he said/she said bullshit. And I said in an earlier post that I personally wouldn't want to live like that, but I would hope my family wouldn't let me starve to death. Maybe instead of arguing and torturing her with removing/inserting/removing again her feeding tube, they could come up with a way to let her die with some dignity and respect.

NYT, 23 March 2005:In reply to:In a hearing before Judge Whittemore on Monday, the Schindlers argued that their daughter's constitutional rights to due process were violated because she did not have independent legal representation while the case was in state court. Their federal lawsuit, against Mr. Schiavo and Judge George W. Greer of Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court, also claims that Ms. Schiavo's religious liberties were being infringed on because Pope John Paul II had deemed it unacceptable for Catholics to refuse food and water.

In reply to:I personally wouldn't want to live like that, but I would hope my family wouldn't let me starve to death.Would you suggest a quick bullet to the head? Active euthanasia is illegal...there are some very good reasons for that.I said stuff earlier in this thread about how withdrawal of food and water is not a terrible way to go, and that many people who have their wits about them who have terminal diseases and whose quality of is very bad (intractable pain, etc.) choose that course. These folks are cognizant and can often speak, so they can describe what it's like.Don't you think that a lot of peoples' feelings on the matter are driven by emotion?

Bullet to the head...for me personally...yes I would rather do that. And I believe in euthanasia by the way...and I'm catholic. :blush: I just don't understand how it's humane to deny someone food and let them die slowly, but it's not ok for them to give her a lethal injection that will make her fall asleep and never wake up.
And yes I agree people are driven by emotion.