White Pride

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Living on a farm sucks eh? It was horrible for me to clean the stables, feed the rabbits, clean the stalls. Totally blows! Especially when it smells so bad then you throw up and you have to clean that! I lived on a farm till I was 9, both in city and farm Good times.

I don't know where you've been hiding. Even though there is plenty of racism everywhere (and terrible in places like Boston), it's more overt in the South. If you lived around Memphis when you were a kid and you didn't notice racism, you must not have spent much time outside of your house, because full-blown apartheid was the rule back then. The culture has evolved, and things are much better than they used to be. But racism still exists in a big way there.By the way, in the "peculiar thread" I referred to in the first sentence of the first post in this thread, no1 said, in response to "But if that pride is an arrogant sort that looks down on others, then I think no-one should have it.":In reply to:That's a good point. A lot of people thought black pride (and power) meant crush the white man, when in reality it meant telling black people that it was okay to feel proud of your race; it was okay to accept your skin color in a country that devalues everything that represented African-American culture.Then, in response to "As I said earlier, the definition of pride I was using is dignity, value, and self-respect. Why should I not esteem my skin color, as esteem basically means respect.", she said:In reply to:I still think you're missing the point. When people started to say, "I'm proud to be white," they weren't saying that because they were proud of their race. It was a backlash to the "fear" that minorities, who were starting to express pride in their heritage, would rise up and kill white people. Why do you think white people got nervous when they heard black people say "Black Power?" So, I would be careful going around saying "I'm proud to be white" becauses of the negative conotations to the phrase. You don't see many black people nowadays running around saying, "Black Power" do you? It's okay to have pride in your heritage, but when you start saying "I have white (or black) pride," it has many negative conotations to it that people may start thinking you're a racist.I paraphrased the last statement somewhere in this thread.Just some things to ponder.

Would you PLEASE forget everything you have ever learned from Evelyn Wood and start reading your own posts and the posts you request.Huh?> this is completely pointless and I refuse to participate any longer!OK.

In reply to: That makes sense. Sometimes "X" Pride means being glad you're not "Y". Thats a dumbass reason to feel pride. I am glad I aint disabled, but I wouldnt call my feelings on being able bodied as "pride".

Indeed. But that's what seems to motivate some people's sense of pride.

WTF are you raving about? Put up or shut up. I suggest you go back and re-read. Why do you always pull that crap, but never cite anything specific?I think you have trouble understanding the difference between, "Yes, I understand why they think that", as opposed to "I think that". Is it really that complicated?

You know, after tying all I typed, to come to that conclusion after you misunderstand one statement and come to that conclusion is just plain stupid. If your intention is to provoke me, then you can go with purple and entertain yourself in another thread. If you have anything thoughtful and constructive to say, you're welcome to say it.

Don't be a child.

Stop being such a fucking hypocrite for once. I searched up some of your past threads. Do you read what you write?

Really? Well then, go and start a new thread and explore the subject, if it interests you.

Have you done your homework and found a post of yours, out of the 1600+, that is actually constructive?

All one can do is try to shephard a thread and make a hand wave at keeping it on topic, but if people want to vandilize it, there's not much you can do. It's kind of like keying someone's car, or doing donuts on their lawn.

Yet again, where in the post there did i say anything about that. Quote it!

I answered your post. You're not a complete idiot. It's not very complicated. You can figure it out.Unless you have something relevant to the thread to offer, then please go away. Oh, wait, I just rememebered, you're batting .000 in postings that are useful and constructive. Oh, well.

Im too hot, too tired and too lazy at this point to go back and find the correct post to reply to, so if anyone is reading this in threaded mode my current post is going to go over like a turd in a punch bowl at the prom.This isnt directed at you steve, but is in line wiht the topic and you earlier sad some stuff was paraphrazed from No1sex, so I figured responding to you was as close as i could currently get, and atlesat it is on topic once again!now then...fTo feel pride is one thing, it should be felt for winning a race, bowling a perfect game, what ever, but to feel pride based on simple shit you have no control over is insane. Keeping in mind that what was state earlier wsa that pride is to be proud of heritage and that it doenst matter what skin color you have that its all ok and assenine to worry about the melanin content of ones skin or be proud because your great great grand daddy came from Scotland, or what ever.I think, and correct me if Im wrong but what blacks, whites, NDN's, cubans,mexicans,hispanics, whatever should feel isnt pride, its a lack of shame.I think that a lack of shame better sums of what we are speaking about ?I shouldnt have to be ashamed because my ancestors owned slaves, ro because mor refcently my ancestors were greatly involved inteh beginnings of hte Mormon church in utah. I shouldnt feel shamed over that shit, nor should I feel proud of my heritage.Its the lack of being ashamed that everyone should feel. If my dad was a child molestor and murderer, then I think feeling shame would be OK, after all i am the fruit of his loins and wil forever be connected to him. But Noone should have to feel shamed because they have dominant african american traits, for are skinny white boys with bird lips, or whatever.Is the pride that we all seem to feel is ok not better summed up as a lack of shame over what ever our inherited traits happen to be?or am i wy off in my way of thinking ?I was thinking about this earlier today, in the sun, 95 fucking degrees, and ran out of water with no shade. i was fucking roasting and am now sitting under th central air vent recouperating, so forgive me if my thoughts are a bit jumbled, but i think it makes sense, or atleast it does to me.So am i right? are we not talking about how racial pride shouldnt be actual pride but rather a lack of having to feel shame over our given physical attributes and ancestors history?

You make a well reasoned and good point but I'm afraid I feel genuinely proud of my ancestors history. I dont think thats wrong, I am linked to them all and it sets a standard to live up to.

hrremmmmm...
Well Im 3/4 scottish, thats where with a few exceptions, fmy entire family came from, both sides. It has nothing to do with me, why should I ffget to have any pride in saying im 3/4 scottish, im really 100% American, or was up till bush took office, now my ideas and ideals are anti-patriotic.
Why should I feel pride over the things that I myself didnt accomplish?
I feel pride in my childrens accomplishments, but thats different. I may not of fbeen teh wone to accomplish what they did that is the source of the pride, but I had a direct affect on thier ability to do it. Just to be proud to be an irishman for instance, why is there pride there?
they had no choice of where they were born, and thats all that it is, you were bornf in a specific place, it wasnt up to you, you had no affect on it, two people fucked, fffan egg and a sperm collided, you were born. I suppose its ok to be proud that the sperm was able to make it thru the defenses and fertalize the egg, that atleast seems more reasonable to me then being proud simply because of where you were born, or what color you weref upon that birth.
I really think its more a matter of not feeling shame for the way your born. Noone should be made to feel ashamed because of bulshit stupid things like being gay, being black or white or grey or red or what ever. proud of tradition and upholding that tradition ? that i can see, but proud simply because you were born a certain way?
that strikes me as assinine.

In reply to: ...I'm afraid I feel genuinely proud of my ancestors history. I am linked to them all and it sets a standard to live up to.The people you're linked (i.e., related) to can be good, bad, or indifferent. Can't you also live up to the standards set by, let's say, Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, and Martin Luther King, if they are people of accomplishment whom you respect, even though you are not related to them? Even though they're not necessarily even the same color as you?I can understand your respect for whatever your ancestors may have done (that is, what they, not you have accomplished, but I still don't understand the use of the word "pride" in that context.

In reply to:If my dad was a child molestor and murderer, then I think feeling shame would be OK, after all i am the fruit of his loins and wil forever be connected to him.If you didn't abet him, and if you don't approve of what he did, you have no reason to feel shame.

Can't you also live up to the standards set by, let's say, Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, and Martin Luther King, if they are people of accomplishment whom you respect, even though you are not related to them? Even though they're not necessarily even the same color as you?Does that count as pride?i dont think it does, you can marvel, and respect what they did, but i dont think its pride. and setting the goal of living up to someone like that, I think that falls more under personal heros then pride.Not a bad list of personal heros to have by the by.

I may have no reason to feel shame, but i think it would be ok to do so.the same way Im proud of my kids for what they do, i think it would be understandable to feel shame at what my dad did.by the way, so we all understand this, my dad did not do that !i was simply using it as an example, but my dad had nothign to do with ever molesting children or murdering them.100% hypothetical.

One importnat thing to note is that Pride is NOt an intellectual thing, its emotional, and thus intellectual arguments for and against it are somewhat moot. Its like presenting a written essay using science and socialogy to someone informing them why they shouldnt love a particular person or prefer a peach to a plum.In its defense however I AM linked to Winston Churchill and Marerat Thatcher by CULTURE. So you see genetics has little to do with it. My contemporaries and ancestors are linked to me through CULTURE. A culture I have inherited, acquiring, up to a point, its various streangths and weaknesses. Whats more I am directly involved in the continuation and evolution of this culture, so you cant say its something I have nothing to do with, and I can be proud that people from the same culture made achievements for me now to build on.Note that I am not defending pride in ones colour or anything superficial. I did you's the term ethnicity, but the people of my ethnicity share a culture. As for the personal heros arguement. Well Margerat Thatcher and Churchill are heros to me, and I am proud to come from the same cultural grouping as them. I have other heros from other cultural groupings who I am not proud of, but admire immensly.

Depends where you draw cultural lines. Having never been to America I dont feel qualified to say for sure. If we accpet that there is an American culture and presume that both you and Bush belong to it, then yes you are linked. I reckon that probably is the case, even when you seem to have completely different views (for example I wouldnt deny that within British culture there is included a number of thieving socialists).