Mutual masturbation

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I do get your point Chuck nb, but as far as the percentage thing goes, this is very subjective; different people will have different 'percentages'.But I think, amongst all the confusion in sexuality, there is a very clear line separating bisexuality and bi-curiosity: I think to say; 'I am bi-curious - I regularly enjoy homosexual sex’! totally equates to saying; ‘I wonder what apples taste like - I eat them every day'! It just doesn’t make logical sense.

Defining sexual orientation is like defining the color yellow. Is it yellow? Greenish? Green?

If you tell an adolescent, "Oh, yeah, you are definitely gay" [paraphrase] after he talks about some homosexual acts that he enjoyed, what is he supposed to do with that information? Go out and buy silk shirts and track lighting?

"Go out and buy silk shirts and track lighting? " it is tempting! this is something we agree on, the only way we know that yellow is yellow is because someone says "that color is yellow" in my opinion, all these titles are pointless, We all only have a limited time on this earth, why spend them labeld something? if you feel "gay" one day, run with it. feel "strait" the next, rock on.

"different people will have different 'percentages'."Yep and that was exactly the point - for each aspect of one's sexuality each person has percentages that apply to them thus it is impossible to say someone is gay just because they fantacise about guys; one needs to evaluate all of their own percentages and decide if any label fits or not. In fact, I bet that most people don't fit any label since their sexual activity could be 100% opposite gender, their fantasies could be 90% same gender and who knows what might apply to kissing and cuddling and the like.So, screw the labels, work out for yourself where you stand and then enjoy it.

i think of bi-curious being inbetween bisexual and streight on the great continum that is sexual preferance... i kinda think of bisexual as likeing both sexes equally. i like guys more then girl so if i had to lable myself, it would b bicurious.

its really anoying how humans feel we have to define and lable and catagorise sumthing in order to understand it better. it may b useful in sum instances, but the whole steriotpying and lableing thing is really dumb. every1 is different and not every1 will fit into a catagory...

I think that mutual masturbation is completely normal and straight. It's not gay to want someone to jack you off. The main point of it is to get pleasure out of it and no matter who jacks you off, you'll still get pleasure.

i dont think id call it gay. it is what it is, whatever tickles ur fancey or floats ur boat,as long as its not hurting anybody, fine. go 4 gold. enjoy.

jt2p -"mutual masturbation is straight"

Powers9 - "I think that mutual masturbation is completely normal and straight"

First off, I never said homosexual sex wasn't normal, I said it wasn't heterosexual sex, which it's not; no more than heterosexual sex is homosexual in nature. This is pretty elementary stuff, for Gods sake.

Let me get this clear in my mind: what Powers9 is saying, very clearly, is that two people of the same gender masturbating each other is not a homosexual experience. What jt2p is saying is that neither mutual masturbation nor the giving or receiving of fellatio between two young men is a homosexual experience. Well I'm sorry guys, but this is the greatest load of denial-based nonsense I've heard in a long time.

If what you're both saying were true, then it would have to follow that the homosexual relationship I had years ago was not homosexual in its sexual nature; and it would also have to follow that when I get into bed with my boyfriend at night and enjoy mutual masturbation and oral sex with him we are not enjoying a heterosexual experience. Come on guys, surely you can see how contradictory to the point of the ridiculous this really is?

Is my current relationship heterosexual in nature? - It is.
Was my past relationship homosexual in nature? - It was.

Personally, I feel that if somebody is too immature to identify the nature of the sexual acts they're engaging in, they're too immature to be having sex at all.

Most people are to some degree bisexual; few are at the very end of the spectrum on either side. A given sexual act, however, is by definition homosexual if the parties involved are of the same gender, and heterosexual if the parties are of different genders (we'll skip over group sex).On the other hand, if you're not sexually attracted to someone, but you still use them as a sex toy (e.g., if a guy closes his eyes and fantasizes about Britney Spears while his guy friend), doesn't it get a bit fuzzy? How homosexual is the act then?In any case, lets say someone engages in a homosexual act. What can we conclude from that? That someone is gay? Surveys have shown that many if not most people have engaged in a homosexual act at least once in their lives. Does that mean that maybe half the people are gay?The original poster's original issues is not with the sexual orientation of the act. It's about the sexual orientation of a person. Is your implication that the person is gay? Do you really have enough information to make that determination? And if we paste a label on the guy, then what? What should he do with the information that someone thinks he's gay?

does it really matter i mean....live life the way you want to.....your an individual and if people want to spend there time labelling you then they really need to get over it....seriously who cares weather someone is gay straight or bi its there choice so dont judge them or label them...its not going to affect you as a person what there sexual preference is

"Most people are to some degree bisexual" - !!!Can you prove that??!!

If you want "proof", then you're demanding something beyond what social science can provide. Can you prove the converse?Start by googling for Kinsey Heterosexual-Homosexual Scale.There is also the Multidimensional Scale of Sexuality, developed by some Wayne State University psychologists, cited here in the NIH PubMed reasearch database.As is discussed here (halfway down), "sexuality is fluid".In studies with mice, changing environmental conditions (e.g., crowding) can lead to an increase in homosexual acts. In humans, people who are incarcerated often engage in homosexual acts, but don't when they're free. There is some evidence that homosexuality has a genetic component, but that doesn't appear to be the whole story.We can generally agree what constitutes a homosexual act, but what does it mean to be a homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual? And where do you draw the lines? Human behavior and feelings lie on a continuum, and so, the argument goes, does sexual orientation.

"Can you prove the converse?"I don’t need to prove the converse, because I haven’t claimed the converse. I have no way of knowing (short of conducting a survey of the six-billion-plus people on this planet) what the ratio of sexual preference is. Nor has anyone else, which is why I would reject a blanket statement such as "most people are to some degree bisexual"."We can generally agree what constitutes a homosexual act, but what does it mean to be a homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual? And where do you draw the lines?"Where I would draw the line Steve, and where I drew it for myself, was at the point that I was regularly engaging in homosexual sex, but continuing to feel sexual attraction for men; at that point I acknowledged to myself that I was living a bisexual lifestyle. It really was pretty clear to me. Was I supposed to spend eighteen months with a female lover and continue to tell myself I was bi-curious?! The time-span where I would have regarded myself in that light (bi-curious) was really very short; it lasted from the moment I started to feel sexually drawn to her till the moment I'd begun having sex with her. (We were fast movers, lol) To be curious is to be eager to know, learn or discover something, so for me it was pretty clear I couldn’t have legitimately considered myself 'bi-curious' once I had known, learned and discovered!I’m sure that the following is an important point: I think the main reason why I had no issues in acknowledging this was because I didn’t have negative associations with homosexuality. I think if somebody is enjoying regular homosexual sex, but is simultaneously refusing to acknowledge both the nature of that sex and its implications regarding their sexual preferences, the likelihood is that that refusal of acceptance is rooted in a negative view of homosexuality itself, and that that negative view is the factor which precludes the person from a willingness to accept the reality of their sexual feelings and behaviours. We've all heard the stories of people who punish themselves and others by becoming involved in relationships with people of the opposite sex, and allowing those relationships to develop into marriages that never should have taken place, including children and all sorts of entanglements, financial, emotional etc, because of a refusal to accept their sexual selves. (And I'm not talking about jt2p here; I'm talking generally about the sort of damage these denial-based mindsets can be responsible for)Basically what I am taking from what you are saying is that all of these terms heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual are redundant simply because sexuality is often in a state of flux. But if we discard terms because they apply today, but may not fit so neatly tomorrow, we'd have to stop using half the descriptive terms in use in the English (or any other) language.

Since, I know not alot of people would search for the Kinsey Scale. I found some things about it.The Kinsey InstituteHow Gay Are YouWikipedia Kinsey Scale"10%" GayIf you don't want them, ask a Mod to delete them, but I thought they might be helpful.Off Topic a bit: Whats the other thing, that shows the 'Denial Stages of Homosexuality' I think that what it is! I've tried, Google.

Good references -- thank you. Keep in mind that the last one is from a religious rather than a scientific perspective, but it's still worth a read.Kinsey said it pretty well:In reply to:Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects.Starfish, how many homosexual acts does someone have to engage in to be called "bisexual"? One? Two? Thiry? Then what is the threshold for "homosexual"? Twenty? Forty? It's like the most popular question on this Web site: "Is my penis small?"In reply to:I don’t need to prove the converse, because I haven’t claimed the converse. I have no way of knowing (short of conducting a survey of the six-billion-plus people on this planet) what the ratio of sexual preference is. Nor has anyone else, which is why I would reject a blanket statement such as "most people are to some degree bisexual".If you survey a statistically-representative sample, you can get a pretty accurate approximation of the characteristics and opinions of a larger group, and you can even calculate what the error is (it's a function of the sample size).In reply to:Basically what I am taking from what you are saying is that all of these terms heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual are redundant simply because sexuality is often in a state of flux.No, not "simply", although the fact that the acts that one performs is in a state of flux. Would you say that someone was gay five years ago, straight last week, and gay again today? I've never heard anyone say "He's was gay in 2003". And what do you make of someone who has never engaged in a homosexual act, goes to prison for ten years and regularly has gay sex, then comes out of prison, gets back together with his girlfriend, and never again does anything that would be considered even remotely gay?But at least as important is the inexactness of the terms. Where do you draw the line? At some arbitrary point? How do you determine that point? How much greater would anal sex weigh in the measurement than oral sex? And what about receiver versus giver? How many points would a kiss on the lips add? A kiss on the cheek? Then how would you quantify intention?If you have great grandparents of African and European origin, how many of them must be white before you can call yourself white? And ethnic origin is more quantifiable that sexual orientation.How long is long? How tall is tall? What purpose would be served by an adolescent labeling his sexual orientation, which may in fact be in a state of flux?It's true that a lot of the concern in motivated by homophobia. It's as if some people are concerned that they're diseased if they're attracted to someone of the same sex. You can be sure that if homosexuality were completely accepted, there would be very few "Am I gay?" posts. "Tallnes", "heterosexuality", and "whiteness" are three characteristics that confer advantage in our current culture.

Mhmm. Well said there, Steve.

I'm just going to add this one, for some people here.

Are Gay men normal?
It doesn't have to do with your thing, but I thought it was worth a read.

You had some questions which I intend to respond to, but I’ll have to come back to them as I’m very busy at the moment. In the meantime I’m sure these comments will give you plenty to be going on with!What you are essentially saying is that none of these terms classifying sexual preference heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual, are valid viable terms since sexuality is prone to fluctuate and change. If that is true for descriptive terms dealing with sexuality, then, as I’ve said, we’ll have to get rid of descriptive terms dealing with anything that is liable to change. Should we stop calling people teachers/doctors/firefighters in case they, at some future time, change profession? No? I didn’t think so; so why dispense with descriptive terms dealing with sexuality? If a gay man says to you “I’m homosexual” are you going to say, “No – you cant describe yourself that way, as your sexuality is not set in stone and it is possible it might change”? Again – no? And again – I didn’t think so.The sense I’m getting is that you have no problem with these terms as long as people apply them to themselves, but they become a bone of contention for you if you see them applied by somebody else. Well, we have a saying here; ‘cap fit – cap wear’. It has its roots in the culture of calling a spade a spade. You can talk all day and attempt to confuse the issue if it pleases you, but it won’t change the fact that regular consensual homosexual sex is a pretty clear indicator of homosexual tendencies. I’m sure my twelve year old could tell you that!

No, it's not just that people can change over time. It's that, while "homosexual act" may not be hard to define, "homosexual" is. Adolescents' sexuality can be pretty fuzzy. What purpose does it serve for you or him or anyone to put a label on it? Given that homosexuality is not widely accepted as a good thing, it's just another thing for an adolescent to worry about and obsess over.If you're completely heterosexual, then you go to prison for a year and have only homosexual sex, then you get out and once again have nothing but heterosexual sex, are you a homosexual, or a heterosexual, or did your sexual orientation change twice, or does it all just average out and your bisexual? Can you place a numerical weight on characteristics and acts, and then add them up to see what you are?It's not hard to distinguish a police officer from a civilian, even if he's a plain-clothes detective. In many cases, especially among young people, it's much harder to categorize someone's sexual orientation.Given that this Web site exists to help people, how would it help an adolescent who is not sure of his sexual orientation to put him in one column or another? That he should know the truth is not the right answer; the "truth" here is in dispute.

Gosh you guys are still going on about this? *rolls eyes*

Imagine that. Lots of post in a thread, and on topic. Pretty hard to believe, isn't it? Have you ever seen anything like it?Not every thread is for your entertainment.