Hussein Execution

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"but what about the law of the invading country?"There are two ways that 'war' can happen in the US; the first is a war declared by congress (official declaration of war) the second is presidential action/task force. As far as I know, congress has not officially declared war since, I THINK since WW2, but I may be wrong.The big problem is, is that they technically aren't fighting a country or government, they're fighting factions...it's hard to declare war on a country or government when it really dosn't exist outside of the purposes of mapping.BTW the US is hated because they're the most powerful, and richest country in the world. People are jelous of those who are doing better, by right or circumstance (usually the latter). The USA has been the butt of any number of jokes since WW2 because it's relief of jelously, a lack of respect and admiration for the US has been gone long before people even thought of the Middle East.I agree with your last statement; with the current state of affairs the US would be unable to defend itself, and any withdrawl in the middle east would be a catastrophy as far as politics go. Asia may well be on the rise, but I don't see it happenening peacefully, or lasting too long without a large war.

And what criminal or financial charges can you bring about against the most powerful and wealthy nation in the world? Peaceful attempts are futile; they were tried, and people got thier heads cut off for it...you see the factions don't want power, or money; this is what they want: ALL JEWS AND WESTERNERS TO DIE!...That's it...really. The only way to appease them is to, well...die, and take every other non-muslim with us. That's an option I'm not willing to take.The Geneva convection technically covers those who are enemy soliders. Since the US is not fighting a government or country, there are no soliders; therefore there is no way to follow the Geneva Convention, since no soldiers exist! Nevermind there is also an international laws of war; which (I should mention) are not being followed by the factions fighting the USA.My example of Belgium was just an example that included a well known country, please don't take that out of context. If I would have said the nation of Guyana, no one would know where the hell that is. (North-East area of South America)"That has nothing to do with it."That has EVERYTHING to do with it. If the US were to go eye-for-an-eye you'd see a tonne of decapitations and burning of arrested combatants. They've chosen to take the higher ground on this issue though.Granted, I don't believe you should be treating prisoners excessivly poor; the unfortunate incidents at Gitmo (And other prison camps) shows a lack of control and basic empathy. The parties involved didn't factor in the outrage that the American soliders would feel, regardless of thier training.

But in all honesty, they aren't really killing themselves for thier god, thier killing themselves for a promise that they will get lots of sex and possessions in the afterlife. Islam just happens to be medium that is around. (Ironically that violates pretty much everything they've been taught, it seems to be a great hypocracy to tell people that after they die they can violate every rule passed down from thier god)This is the same thing the Catholic church promised the crusaders (Your sins; past, present, and future, will be removed if you fight in the crusades; you will be rewarded by god, you will be allowed into heaven)

And to finish it off; suicide bombing is just poor strategy.But you think of this; every child and youth who blows himself up has been removed from the combat-pool permently. What did they do, kill maybe 10 people at the best of times? If they set up their IED's and fought they would probably stand a much better chance.Here is the best line to describe the combat situation"Don't die for your country, make the other bastard die for his!" - General Patton

Quote:And what criminal or financial charges can you bring about against the most powerful and wealthy nation in the world?Are you actually ignorant enough to believe that the United States can survive without the rest of the world? The loss of world trade and world communication would be devastating to the States. Just try to remember how many American companies outsource for nearly all of their products. Half the stuff you use (yeah, I know you're in Canada) is probably made in Asia, if not more than half! If America was boycotted (obviously it will never happen, unless they fuck up badly), the US would be crippled.America is probably the most powerful nation in the world but as Ineligible said, "the US is now over its zenith." They are not invincible, they are not better than all other nations. Unless the US stops believing that they can do whatever they want, as you believe they can, they will not last much longer as a dominant nation. Its stupid to think that because America has big guns that they can do what they want, just look at the war in Iraq, or the Vietnam war.Quote:My example of Belgium was just an example that included a well known country, please don't take that out of context. If I would have said the nation of Guyana, no one would know where the hell that is. (North-East area of South America)And my point still stands. The world probably doesn't care enough about Guyana to protect it (altho as a Commonwealth nation, it might not go down too well), but the US cannot attack ANY nation it wants. Can the US invade Canada? No, because other nations would help protect them!Quote:"That has nothing to do with it."That has EVERYTHING to do with it. If the US were to go eye-for-an-eye you'd see a tonne of decapitations and burning of arrested combatants. They've chosen to take the higher ground on this issue though.No really, it has nothing to do with it because the US Army would NEVER go eye-for-an-eye! Its just out of the question! Individual soldiers may do it, but the US Army would never take that stance.

Granted, the USA cannot survive without the rest of the world, but neither can the world live with the US (Nor could they live without China, to that effect, as well as many other countries) We're all locked together in a mutually assured economic suicide pact.To use some facts:Here in Canada, 85% of our Exports are to the USA, and is responsible for 57% of imports into Canada (The majority)- The UK holds a small majority of thier exports to the USA (15%).- China holds the US as the majority export partner (21% total)- In Mexico, they have the US as thier major export partner at 85% as well, and 54% of thier imports are from the usa.- Saudia Arabia gives out an equal share of exports to the US and Japan, and import 13% from the US (the majority)Literally, just based on that alone, Canada and Mexico could NOT afford to follow any embargos against the US. The prospect of losing 85% of your market is not a minor hicup, it is total econmic collapse; beyond the pail collapse. Even a 5% loss of business is enough to cause economic damage for years, if not decades.I already addressed the possibility of outside help. Yes, no one would stand by while Belgium became a US state; but that dosn't prevent the military action. "Can the US invade Canada? No, because other nations would help protect them!"Gee, I hope so...but that wouldn't prevent the core military action. "No really, it has nothing to do with it because the US Army would NEVER go eye-for-an-eye! Its just out of the question! Individual soldiers may do it, but the US Army would never take that stance."- There is my point still...the US army has a choice of what to do; frankly they could execute arrested combatants on the spot and we'd never know whether they were killed in action or after the fact.You have to remember, we're not dealing with innocent lost children here. I know that's hard to remember (I'm not being a smartass) I'm in a field of work where guys live 2-3 in a 10x6 cell; you feel bad for them until you realize they're in there BECAUSE THEY HURT PEOPLE. And ultimatly, if you were to liberate gitmo; you'd be the first one to be decapitated by the prisoners; because you're an "Infidel".

Quote:Since the US is not fighting a government or country, there are no soliders; therefore there is no way to follow the Geneva Convention, since no soldiers exist!This is wrong several ways. First, the Taliban were the effective government of Afghanistan, and Hussein's party were the effective and recognised government of Iraq. To say the US was not fighting a government is nonsense.Second, the Geneva Conventions do not only cover wars against governments, and they do not only cover treatment of soldiers. For more information, see the Wikipedia overview of the Geneva Conventions and the full text of the Geneva Convention relating to treatment of prisoners of war. (Note also the text of the first protocol of 1977, ratified by 166 nations and signed by the US but not ratified by it.)Quote:the US is hated because they're the most powerful, and richest country in the worldI know this is frequently stated in certain circles in the US. It's a comfortable mantra to those who believe it, and of course it's easily believable to those who have little experience outside the US. It sounds plausible. However, it doesn't bear close inspection. After September 11 there was wide sympathy for the US. Why did that evaporate so quickly? It wasn't because of what the US is, but what it said and did. The treatment of enemy prisoners in Guantanamo and elsewhere in particular sent a wave of shock and revulsion around the world.

Shock and revulsion on the treatment of prisoners? How many other countries in the world do you think prisoners have ACTUAL rights? There isn't much fuss about the random executions of petty criminals in China, nor do people seem to worried about the half-decade wait prisoners in Russia face to go to trial, or the horrid conditions they live it (50% over capacity)If every nations dirty correctional laundry were to be see, you'd BEG to see places as good as Gitmo.BTW: The taliban was not the recognized government, and the factions in Iraq and Afganistan are still fighting, despite having lost thier seat of power! (In Iraq this is especially true) they're not soliders; they're street gangs and highway men.As far as sympathy goes; it was pretty much limited to Western nations. How much sympathy did you have for the London transit bombings, the Tokyo sarin gas attacks, or the Madrid rail bombings?. How much sympathy do you have for them now, or have you largly forgotten about them?And don't kid yourself; the US has STILL been hated and (more often) made fun of because of thier apparent superiority for MANY years before they were attacked. Hell, here in Canada half of our jokes or skits are based on Americans (Rick Mercers talking to Americans, the 30+ years of Royal Canadian Air Farce, the Montreal comedy festival) The other half of the time were either picking on the government, Quebec, or bitching about the cold!

Hawker, if you know anything about world history, the United States isn't hated because of its superiority. We are hated because we have hipocritical policies towards other nations. For instance, in the Middle East, we like to talk about how democracy is essential for the people over there. However, we support regimes such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, where in both of these countries voting rights and freedom of political expression has been greatly curtailed. In Afghanistan, we like to claim that the people have been liberated from the oppressive Taliban (who was a recognized government, by the way). However, women and children's rights have been severely trampled on ever since Karzi's government has risen to power. But, the U.S. doesn't like to talk about that.I think you should look at this site. It talks about women in Afghanistan and they are very credible.http://www.rawa.org. I used it for my presentation for a class I had when I was in college and I found a lot of useful information.

We're hated because we have a higher standard of living than anyone else and they're all envious. Malarkey about having a hypocritical foreign policy is just a high-minded excuse...most folks overseas don't even know or understand what our policy is. Do a little research as to what conditions need to be met, historically, for America to go to war or invade a country and you might get a little closer to the truth about our foreign policy.

No - You're hated for the reasons CBW stated.And that you're idiots and contradict your self in everything you do.Democracy is nothing but war - thanks a lot.

Is this your opinion as a non-US citizen?

It's my opinion after talking to hundreds of non-US citizens from other countries.

Do you really think so many folks from all over the world want to get into this country because our foreign policy stinks in their eyes? No...I think it's something else. People who are envious of others have two routes...either do what it takes to get even (not in a malicious way), or trash-talk them down (in a malicious way). People who can't (or won't) do what it takes to get even take the "trash-talk" route...every time. People who aren't envious pay more attention to their own country and community and what it takes for them to better where they live...instead of talking somebody elses country down. People who are truly interested in things like foreign policy will do the research to find out the reality of things instead of just getting their "ammunition" (and attitude) off the internet.

Fine then; there is a PRECIEVED superiority (there are other countries where the standard of living for the average, and even poor citizen is much higher) and American folks can be very arrogent and ignorant to outsiders, even when visiting another country. NOT ALL OF THEM, but enough to ruin it for everyone else.The 'hypocrisy' of the foreign policy smacks more of strategy, rather than anything else. The rest of the middle east is being tolerated right now, because frankly no one can afford an all-out war with the ENTIRE region. Afganistan was first, Iraq was second, Iran is on the chopping block next...it continues ad nauseum."Democracy is nothing but war - thanks a lot." You'd perfer losing your freedom of speech and be subject to random executions or imprisonment because of your opinions or some feature which a 'great leader' disagrees with? (Keeping in mind that I know of the context and scope of the USA Patriot act, which is highly unconstitutional) There really hasn't been that much war or civil unrest compared to other forms of Government; don't knock it. (And I hope you plan on at least voting when you're old enough, otherwise don't speak of democracy at all)"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin

I can't vote, nor do I want to - Works out, eh?I'd rather be tortured then hear some people use their freedom of expression.

The irony of that last comment is beyond the normal bounds of what has come to be known as irony; using your freedom of expression to express your aversion to it. "I believe that everyone should be entitled to thier opinion...so long as it agrees with mine!" (Can't recall the source)

I'm 17, and I trying to see how you see that as an a act of honor?Soliders, like my BEST FRIEND,who are trying to LiBerATE the Iraqis are blown up AND KILLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Where is the damn loyalty in that? What gives them right to kill people's father's and mothers, brothers, and sisters???!!!WE(the military) are trying to root out the BAD. We are not there to kill innocent ppl. We try and try our best to find the culprits.The people that blow themselves up and take others with them ARE COWARDS. They are disgusting.Kill urself.fine.Do that for Allah....but dont take innocent ppl with you

I wasn't going to get into this dick-measuring contest of "my country is better than yours" but clearly I am something of a rarity. I have no idea what the point in it is, since nothing will happen from it.Anyway, my thoughts.Originally Posted By: MiDwEsTPRiNcEsSI'm 17, and I trying to see how you see that as an a act of honor?Soliders, like my BEST FRIEND,who are trying to LiBerATE the Iraqis are blown up AND KILLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Where is the damn loyalty in that? What gives them right to kill people's father's and mothers, brothers, and sisters???!!!WE(the military) are trying to root out the BAD. We are not there to kill innocent ppl. We try and try our best to find the culprits.The people that blow themselves up and take others with them ARE COWARDS. They are disgusting.Kill urself.fine.Do that for Allah....but dont take innocent ppl with you This quote right above me is one of the reasons why people hate America. It is the complete and utter belief that they are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG. With no compromises and no empathy.The quote above mentions that they are fighting the "BAD", well bad in a matter of opinion. I also see the person above has said "we are not there to kill innocent people", well America has and it is happening. So where you are there for it or not is immaterial. The amount of INNOCENT people who have died because of the Americans is probably uncountable. Plus there are the friendly fire incidences.The USA is hated for many reasons, one of them because they are an incredibly powerful nation that could mount operations all over the world with no notice or a second thought. Which brings me neatly to the main reason. They never do have a second thought. They throw their weight around like an adolescent child trying to prove how big he is. America is a relatively new country, especially if you consider it to China, Japan, Britain, France etc. And suddenly they know best and have no idea how the world can operate without them.Think of it as a school playground, America is the big, fat kid who TERRORISES the school for no reason other than it can.If they were powerful yet didn't nose into other peoples business then they wouldn't piss off half as many people they do and would all get labelled fat hicks and rude yahoo's.They are not envied because they have a higher standard of living, mainly because they don't really have that much of a higher one if at all. They don't particually have a higher standard of living than Britain yet they seem to be rather unpopular over here (minus that scrotum smelling twat B-liar)I also found this Clickerty Click Now I am not even going to get into the reasons of the World Wars and the British Empire since I believe my keyboard would have been worn away after I have finished.No doubt after this post this thread will be full of people with their replies. I actually look forward to it.Mr. Nuts

Mr Nuts needs to do his homework rather than take the easy way out and assume the US has never had second thoughts about what we've done. I mentioned something to this effect in an earlier post, to no avail I see. It's easier to hate than try and understand, though...human nature.Is Mr Nuts STILL angry???

I prefer the term mentally unstable.I am quite astonished thought, no really I am. I have seen the error in my ways. Thank you Thor, you have enlightened me. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan all were fantastic ideas which all weren't cock ups whatsoever. (Granted Afghanistan is very important however still a cock up)If you believe they were a all a fantastic idea then you need to get your head tested. You cannot possible look at the world and say it has been made a better place by America. Don't get me wrong, I have been to America and have to say it was a bloody good holiday. All the people I met were nice and friendly. Its just the government really gets on my tits.If you don't agree with anything else I have said then I hope you agree with that.Mr. Nuts