The Moral Questions.

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Its not as much arrogance as much as it is lack of information. It is widely known that the American media basically keeps its people deaf and dumb about the outside world's opinion of them, but there is also an equally large effort put in place to keep American people's negative opinion of their government out of the news around the world.Just as with any political body, it is hard to get a straight answer from the American government, especially a truthful one. But it is even harder to get an honest answer from them when asked by a foreign nation. America relies on its image of strength, they won't be the first to step up and admit that their people hate them.Take for example the movie industry. The US government are bringing in a bill that states that any movie can be edited by a separate third party company to remove any scenes that they find inappropriate for the viewing public. And the directors of the movies have absolutely no say in what gets edited. Now, with a government like that, can you blame us for being a bit ignorant about the views of the American people?

You and I already had that conversation in PM you know how I feel about it.I almost feel bummed, I posted that went ot eat then took the step kids home and thats two hours round trip so Im all worked up on my way home driving in traffic with idiots and I said well Ill go home and defend myself from the Bush supporters and yell and scream and everyone is on the same side as me...... so far.However Ill be all relaxed and out of the mood to fight when we start seeing posative support for the asshole

I love George W. Bush.Feel better?

In reply to:can you blame us for being a bit ignorant about the views of the American people? Yes. It doesnt take einstein to realize that you cant generalize based on the top officials. Like i said i dont do that to anyone else. Take a look at communism. Im not going to say that a country that has a communist government is totally insane. I wont blame the citizens because of that. not everyone is for it. Take a look at ww2, im not going to say that every single german is a nazi, because i gaurantee that not every single german was in favor of what was going on. And if they were, i bet you it was because they didnt know what was going on. Basically, you cant stereotype. Havent we all learned this will all the racial problems in the world

In reply to:And if they were, i bet you it was because they didnt know what was going on. Thats my point, for a long time we didn't know what was going on with the American people. We never heard about people speaking out against the government and therefore could only assume that the majority of the people supported the government. That is the image that your government has always given the world and they worked hard to keep that image.

actually i used to have quite a problem with that sort of thing, because i was politically ignorant and i did think that all germans during that time liked hitler. i know better now.

Exactly. Try not to take this as comparing your government to the Nazis, although there are some things... (cough cough, Prescott Bush was a Nazi) ahem... But there is similar blockage of information that during World War II had people thinking that all the German people were Nazis, just recently had people believing that all Americans supported their government.

Actualy, Bush make a quote that was something like this "The world would be a lot better of america was a dictatorship, so long as i was the dictator" and, he hates jews and black people.

I found this video a few weeks ago, its about the conspiracy behind the JFK assassination and more importantly, the link between the assassination and George H. W. Bush. (thats Bush Senior for those who don't know). Be warned, its from infowars.com and not only is their view extremely biased, but they can sometimes make some things out of nothing.But thats not what I'm trying to highlight with it, it just so happens to go into the corruptness of the Bush family, and gives a nice background into the family of the man with the finger on the trigger.The Movie Personally I believe Bush to be a racist, arrogant pig and he is the leader of horrifyingly corrupt government.

The Book Fortunate son shows how incredibly corrupt bush is, and the author isnt biased, and he doesnt just pull stuff out of his hat. the story behind fortunate son is also, horrifying. you should look into it. the documentry "Horns and Halos"

All im saying is that with or without the proper coverage, it should be common sense to not judge everyone based upon what it seems. The is stereotyping and we all know the chances of it being true is not good. This whole thing with italy now and the donations of money to iraqi groups. I know with or without news coverage that most people in italy probably dont agree with that. Its just a given

But when a country votes for a guy who fucks everything up for a large portion of the planet, and then they vote for him again, without the knowledge of record low poll turnouts and rumours of the elections being rigged, what do you expect us to do but presume that he has the support of the majority? I'm not saying that its good or bad that we believed this, but without the apropriate information we can't be expected to assume things are bad either.And thanks Java, I'll look into that. Whenever I get bored I always seem to just look up info on Bush.

I know what your saying, i agree in one aspect. But im just saying, majority or not, its not fair to judge. Even if there was 10 people who hated bush and the rest loved him, it would be unfair to those 10 to say america sucked. Im not too fond of this country as it is, for various reasons, but i just dont like to be thought of negatively because of our dumb fucking method of electing the president. It was great when we had 13 states, not when we have 50 and billions of fucking people. STUPID FUCKING GOVERNMENT!

Ha, you think thats bad! After fighting for centuries for independence, how do you think it felt to hear Ireland being described as "the 51st state of America".

And most people aren't judging, especially not me. We are not just saying that Americans are stupid and making the wrong decisions and try to force that opinion into your faces. We see the actions of your government and your president, he is the leader and representative of your nation. We don't assume that all americans love him and we of course knew that people don't like him, but we did not know about how out-spoken these people are.

Well, since Chance basically has already said "f*ck you" to me, I'll jump into the fray.

Kool-Aid drinkers the lot of you! Yep, I said it!
I find what has been said in this thread to be unbelievable. Java, you said you wanted a decent and intelligent discussion. Has it occurred to you that this thread is so far from that? Things I'm reading here are what I would expect to hear from a freshman at a university just trying on his or her political wings between bouts of hackysack.
You can't just say things like "Bush hates black people" without backing it up. That's not an argument, and certainly isn't intelligent. It's Kool-Aid drinker rhetoric.
As for the stem cell issue, his is not an "anti-science" position. You folks insist on portraying it that way instead of acknowledging it for what it is. It's a moral position, one that most of America seems to agree with. Right or wrong, it is not in the least helpful to make unfounded, irrational attacks. On this or any other issue. It is much more helpful to at least attemt to hear the other side and then rationally state your objection. Not being done here though, huh?

And as the the economic issue that was brought up. How many more statistics and economic indicators do we need showing that we have the strongest economy in years before you naysayers will stop acting like none of that even exists.

I get that you guys don't like Bush. That's fine. I don't agree with everything he's done or is doing myself. But what I'm reading in this thread is the very opposite of mature, rational discussion on anything. I don't get why folks who can be so rational and intelligent most of the time are so williing to throw it all to hell when it comes to another opportunity to spew hatred at someone they don't care for.

So now everyone hates me... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

what i think you are seeing damien is raw emotion and pent up frustration. Usually that will dictate a very sporadic kind of conversation. I mean I know I am, I mean I am not even considering the effort to "back it up" not worth it. Bush is crap, there is evidence of that, he can die now.

I hate you.

In reply to: Bush is crap, there is evidence of that, he can die now. Thats insane, not giving any kind of evidance is pure lunacy. It make sit seem your just jumping on the anti-Bush band-wagon cos you arent capable of having political beliefes without Green Day and Michael Moore telling you what to think. If you dont want me to to think that then I am gunna need evidence.As an out-right libertarian I belief what Bush has done here is wrong. People can make there own chooses about stem-cell research without the government stepping in.Though I would like to say that as a non-American who doesnt have to live with his social policies or his erodeation of liberty, I'm all for a bit of Bush. On the international stage he's a good chap.

In reply to: On the international stage he's a good chap. What world do you live in? last i checked he was hated by everyone. Was that not what me and bob were discussing?

O and damien the reason i dont back it up with evidence is im so sick of it by now. This is all ive done since i heard he was going to run for his first term. Get me on a bad day and ill most likely have the motivation to argue in depth, but today is a good day for me, SO DONT RUIN IT!