I have a feeling that North Korea will be attacked before Iran. Although I just wish we would stay out of other countries unless needed. Like a world war, now that is justified.
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The Moral Questions.
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The problem with North Korea is China, and not attacking Iran would be damned silly after all the trouble we've gone through to get this far. And I believe an Iran war is neccesary, though I agree would be nice if we just didnt need to, but we do.
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care to explain why it is necessary to out right attack another country. It is true China is what is keeping this US economy ticking. but we do not have the funds to simply go and attack another country. We are paying for our war now by getting lonas from other countries...it is rediculous to say we should attack.
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Well, talks about having him impeached have been held. A forum discussion on the possible impeachment of President Bush was held at Busboys & Poets in Washington, DC on January 30th, 2006. Kevin Zeese, a candidate for the U.S. Senate in Maryland and directory of Democracy Rising, moderated the event. This is a video of his closing remarks. Impeach Bush Yes, thats right! I spend all my time watching Bush videos on google.com!!
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Its neccesary to attack Iran before they have nuclear weapons and will be able to pose a real threat to western civilisation.
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well then every country that has nukes and is not a friend is a threat right? That is total bullshit. If we stay out of their fights then we will not cause global turmoil.
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In reply to: And for the Economy, WE ARE 6.9 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT!!! A debt which was totally noexistant before he took office. Right.I think you have to be really careful when you judge the rightness or wrongness of something based on how it effects you personally. That's self-interest, not reasoning. I get your concern. Decisions are being made here in Ky that might impact my profession, but that doesn't make them bad decisions.You got references (title, page numbers, etc.) for those quotes?
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In reply to: What world do you live in? last i checked he was hated by everyone. Well that's what you get for letting ABC, NBC, CBS, CNBC, CNN and Michael Moore tell you what the world thinks. The fact is, everyone in the world doesn't hate Bush. Only the ones captured for your pleasure on the 11:00 news. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that for every non-Islamic-extremist that hates Bush, I can find 100 who don't.
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In reply to:
I really am glad we've liberated Iraq but it was for the wrong reasons and that's not cool. You don't claim that there are weapons blah blah blah, march in and then start saying you went there primarily to set the people free.
Do you not pay attention to the news, or is it easier to just keep chanting the same Kool-Aid drinker mantra.
Fact: Weapons of mass destructions was only one of many reasons that were given - and agreed upon by the international community (including American Democrats) - for going to war.
Fact: Bill and Hilary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Madelien Albright, and several other key Demorats stated that Saddam was hiding WMD's - before Bush ever said it!
Fact: There is still current evidence that Saddam did have WMD's and got rid of them before we invaded his butt. There is absolutely no evidence that he didn't have them.In reply to:
Going into Iraq has also stirred up a huge bee's nest, and the fallout will get much worse before it can begin to get better.
Yes. That's called war. Most of us have been fortunate to grow up never knowing war until now. But what we lack is a historical understanding of how war works. It's not just an invasion - wipe out the bad guys - it's over. IT's a process and sometimes it has to get complicated before it gets better.
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Noone can say there was NO DEBT before he took office, but we can see how much the debt has raised since he took office.
I do not have the figures in front of me but its been a huge amount. Unemployment has gone up and his morals have been pushed on everyone for better or worse.
We fare living in the Kingdom of Fear.The eagle screams on Friday
The Colts are doomed this year
The fat's finally in the fire
In the Kingdom of Fear
Dangerous creeps are everywhereYou're a whole different person...
When you're scaredWe have ways to make you talk
You won't like at all
If you can't run, walk
If you can't walk crawl
But don't look down
It's a long, long fall
And you loved her in a Turkish town
But you didn't want to bring her here
You didn't want her hanging around
In the Kingdom of Fear
So you let left her thereYou're a whole different person when you're scared
The lyrics have little if anything to do with this topic, I just really like them and after I typed kingdom of fear they sort of drifted out and onto the post
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In reply to: Yes his conquest of Iraq was for oil among many things. Going into Iraq boosted the profits of the oil companies. Jon, that is more mindless rhetoric. There is no proof anywhere that this is the case. It's ridiculous of you to even say it.I guess genocide, human rights abuse, mass murder, rape, pillaging...none of that matters anymore.I'm through with this. Let's talk about sex.
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In reply to: A debt which was totally noexistant before he took office. Right. We have never not had a debt. But at least what i can say is it wasnt going up before he came into office. A certain president before actually cut the debt. We are over 8 trillion now, which is pathetic. Now damien i ask you, what do you think about this whole Dubai control over our porsts? What kind of president, who is "so concerned about the safety of our country" would turn control of our ports to a middle eastern country? that would be the dumbass that is currently sitting in our oval office. wait maybe he isnt there, chances are hes on another vacation.
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okay so we substitue what Saddam was doing, with more than 15,000 injured/deceased american soldiers and an enormous amount of Iraqi deaths. Also include the civil unrest we have instated in Iraq. Yeah have people live under Saddam control was really bad for the US. If we could not get the support of the UN then there should be no reason to go.
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If you're comparing the toll of our invasion to what Saddam has done in terms of lives, destruction, morality, or whatever, then that is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty and moral ambiguity.As for the UN, they outlived their usefulness years ago. If we did what they wanted, we would cease to exist.
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I think you would have to show me proof of your assertation that the national debt was on the mend before W came to power. I'm not buying it.What I can tell is that one of the issues I have with W is that he spends too much. As for Dubai, my gut says its a bad idea. He may end up being right and it might not be problematic, but I just think we can't be too careful.That's 2 areas of disagreement I have with him. I can live with that. EDIT:Here's the thing: There are 20 of you and 1 of me. I don't wanna do this point by point argument thing. Hopefully those sad days on this board are gone. I can live with disagreements. I can live with reading things that I think are totally erroneous and wondering how a rational person can say such a thing. As long as it's honest and thoughtful. The thing I don't like is chanting hateful mantras with no thought or attempt to show any kind of evidence behind them. This thread has moved beyond that, so I'm happy.
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In reply to:
When George W. Bush took office in 2001, the national debt was holding at $5.8 trillion. In the four years since that time, debt has climbed by over $2 trillion.
I stand corrected, Clinton didnt cut the debt, but he did bring it to a standstill. Bush decided up was good?
In reply to:
For comparison, during the two terms of the Clinton administration, our debt only climbed by $1.4 trillion over the eight years. During the one term presidency of George H.W. Bush, debt climbed by $1.2 trillion.
It climbed until it stopped at the end of his term. 1.2 trillion in his first term.
In reply to:
Since September of 2003, the national debt of the United States has been climbing at a rate of $1.6 billion dollars per day. The current national debt stands at a record high of $7.4 trillion dollars. More precisely, the debt stands at $7,448,740,925,278 as of this writing.
Thats as of Nov of 2004. Its over 8 trillion now i believe.
Wow look at that steep inclince. notice how steeply it went up after Clinton leveled it at the end.
I think ive shown enough evidence
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Excuse me? I'm thinking of how its affected the world. he's stopping scientific progression that could save millions of lives.
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The worst part of all that is carring over the anger from this argument to other topics and discussions. They ar two seperate things and jsut because Ill kick you in this thread over bush doesnt mean I have to kick you in another subject.Steve was good for that too, he did not et something in one argument carry to unrelated shit in another.
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(I'll ask in advance for forgiveness since I'm currently very drunk)Damien, as much as I hate to disagree with you, your statement In reply to:How many more statistics and economic indicators do we need showing that we have the strongest economy in years just doesn't make sense. The American economy currently has: the biggest rise in unemployment for almost 15 yearsthe lowest international exchange rate for more than 10 yearsthe smallest industrial growth figure for almost 10 yearsthe largest trade gap for more than 20 yearsthe biggest stock market analysis disparity for more than 10 yearsthe largest government disparity on trade figures for more than 10 yearsANDthe biggest GDP drop for almost 30 years. Exactly what is your statement based on? I'd be fascinated to know
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In reply to:
The worst part of all that is carring over the anger from this argument to other topics and discussions. They ar two seperate things and jsut because Ill kick you in this thread over bush doesnt mean I have to kick you in another subject.
I'll definitely give you that one. I can usually count on you for that, along with some others. I try to do the same thing.
In reply to:
Steve was good for that too, he did not et something in one argument carry to unrelated shit in another.
Hmmm...I think he did that on a certain emotional plane. However, there were many times where he would cross threads, cut and paste, often from things totally unrelated, to paint people however he wanted. He just did things in a very backdoor kind of way. I thought....
