johndoe14> So what i'm saying is that most athiest are liberals, i guess.That may be true, and it's something interesting to think about. I wonder if most atheists are libertarians and most authoritarians are religious. Or if most religiously doctrinaire people are authoritarian.JoeXpolloi> i do not believe there are many [atheists] on hereThe percentage of atheist in the U.S. population is pretty low, and I think that's reflected in this forum.
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Wondering Conservative
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In reply to: athiest here, i do not believe there are many on here because i have seen many posts referring back to adam and eve, the bible, and what god thinks is wrong. its unfortunate. Actually there are quite a lot of Atheists here. Usually when you see a lot of references to the bible or god its because one person mentioned tem and everyone else starts attacking them for believing/having faith in something that science can't prove to exist or not exist.
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I'm not sure that it's everyone, or just a handful of Godless apostates.
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I don't know why religion enters these discussions. Beliefs are beliefs, and nothing more. Religion is not an absolute law, and Christian faith should have no more merit than any other religious faith. I wouldn't call myself an atheist or a hugely religious person, as my beliefs reflect what I know and how I perceive the world, and that changes all the time. Personally, a lot of my religious beliefs rest on scientific evidence, and the existance of god is actually far from disproven or put aside in the scientific community. Atheists are everywhere, Christians are everywhere, and although there are groups that have far larger numbers of certain groups, and I don't think that that should rule the discussion. As a matter of fact, that's all the more reason to keep religion out of this discussion, as there's so many people who don't follow the exact beliefs of others.
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Ok... Let me get this straight Steve, those sayings, they're sayings by a socialist(s), and a communist(s).
Alright... even if you don't think otherwise, it might be best if I brought this up.
Communism looks like it would work, written down on a piece of paper but it never works out the way it's planned. Now I could go on the internet and show you 2nd class countries that work under communism. But I can prove it with commonly known knowledge, this isn't a religious statement if that's what you're thinking, I'm not going to make it that easy for you. (
How come People from Cuba, Russia, china (both areas of china) and other countries in the eastern United States. By hook or by crook, (and sometimes risking there life's) just to get to America, (I know this includes Dictatorships as well, but Russia and china are basically communist.) However, you never hear stories of Americans migrating to these countries (legal or otherwise) In order to seek the opportunity that communism provides. (That was a sarcastic statement) I've never even heard pro socialist networks tell stories like that.
The problem with Liberals today is that they see George bush, Christianity and other republicans as a GREATER enemy then the terrorists. I can give a few examples of this even though there are so many more.
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Katie Curric, (or however her name is spelled) When speaking with someone, asked if the London bombings were because bush was in Iraq. However, it's known that the bombings were done by Muslim British citizens and not by anyone from Iraq themselves. Or even anyone from the middle east
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Liberals networks constantly report stories (in a highly positive an admiral light) about people trying to get rid of all references of god outside of worship areas. They value things like abortion and extremely strict political correctness.
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This country was founded by Christians; I can recall 2 famous law documents with references to the Christian, Islamic, and Jewish deity (I'm not 100 percent sure if Muslims worship the same god, (but with a different name) then Christians and Jews.) No law allows the American government to force they're will and beliefs (and by will I mean religion) upon its citizens so what's the problem? Liberal is not only a political party, but a synonym of a characteristic of open mindedness. How is an attempt of attacking God worshipers being open minded?
Extreme political correctness is not, and should not be the reinforcement of the first amendment right; the first amendment right is reinforcement in itself, to protect citizen's rights. -
Liberals believe in Negotiations with the terrorists, as well as giving the terrorists whatever they want in hopes of them backing down, and I haven't seen it work. Steve, do you really believe that Osaka binladens demands are negotiable? If so, why don't you go negotiate with him yourself? And when in history did we ever win a war by trying to negotiate, and make piece with invaders (did you think I was going to say enemy? No, invaders are the proper word because the "enemy" CAN be negotiated with as a first attempt at ending conflict. Invaders usually have no intention of making peace unless they're the ones in control.)
Whose side are you on?
Jesus' idea was to help the poor indeed. However, back then the only real way anyone could help the poor would be to give things to them. Why? Because the government of monarchies had no intention of making their kingdoms successful. This is the twenty-first century, and like most things in comparison to the first century, things can be done differently and still work. And, like most things in comparison to the first century, some things still hold true. However this isn't one of them. Welfare gives people not only the money they need, but to get a job, and the amount of money the government gives you, decreases as time goes on. THIS is how you help people. Remember how you said too many useful things leads to too many useless people. Well, what about when the government just pays people. Communism just paying people and only the rich have jobs, that's what makes useless people.
Jesus wanted people to help each other out. When you give someone the proper tools in order to succeed, you've done something that's past the value of any amount of food,
And any volume of currency. You've done something for them that will help them for a life time. This is why there are not only scientists and teachers, but libraries and computers. So people can seek and collect information on their own. -
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Communism looks like it would work, written down on a piece of paper but it never works out the way it's planned. Now I could go on the internet and show you 2nd class countries that work under communism.You're arguing with yourself on this one. I don't think anyone here is defending Communism, however you choose to define it. But you might still want to read up a bit more on Marx and Marxism. And Trotsky and Kant and Hegel and all those guys.> How come People from Cuba, Russia, china (both areas of china) and other countries in the eastern United States.You have not been paying much attention to the Chinese economy. It's growing a lot faster than the U.S.'s. The U.S. has a huge trade balance with China (in their favor), which gives them more U.S. dollars than they know what to do with. So they're buying U.S. bonds, and are looking for U.S. companies to buy. At the current rate, they will eventually own the U.S. economy.> The problem with Liberals today is...Ahh, there's always problems with liberals.> that they see George bush, Christianity and other republicansThey see a Republican president and administration that hasn't and isn't doing a very good job at protecting the American "homeland" from terrorism. What happened in Madrid and London will almost certainly happen in the U.S....again. I live near a seaport, and no one with a clue thinks it's not vulnerable to terrorism.> as a GREATER enemy then the terrorists.That's ridiculous, overheated rhetoric. > Katie Curric, (or however her name is spelled) When speaking with someone, asked if the London bombings were because bush was in Iraq. However, it’s known that the bombings were done by Muslim British citizens and not by anyone from Iraq themselves. Or even anyone from the middle eastDidn't I already go over this in the London bombing thread? There is good evidence that the bombing, even though apparently carried out under the direction of Al Qaida, or a related group. The Sunni Radical say they are very angry about the American and European presence in Iraq. Why would they lie about that?> Liberals networks constantly report stories (in a highly positive an admiral light) about people trying to get rid of all references of god outside of worship areas. They value things like abortion and extremely strict political correctness.Oh yeah? Examples? The issue is government involvement in religion. Not everything outside of churches is a government enterprise.> This country was founded by Christians; I can recall 2 famous law documents with references to the Christian, Islamic, and Jewish deity (I’m not 100 percent sure if Muslims worship the same god, (but with a different name) then Christians and Jews.) No law allows the American government to force they’re will and beliefs (and by will I mean religion) upon its citizens so what’s the problem?The problem is that some of the things that the government sometimes wants to do smacks of the establishment of religion. The thing about the foundation by "Christians" (a lot of whom were actually deists, not Christians) is irrelevant. The incorporating document of the U.S. is the U.S. Constitution. And the Constitution's bill of rights say that the government won't establish (or favor) a particular religion. You seem to think Christianity deserves an exalted place. Where does the Constitution say anything about Christianity?> Liberal is not only a political party, but a synonym of a characteristic of open mindedness. How is an attempt of attacking God worshipers being open minded?What's that have to do with keeping the government from shoving religion down people's throats? How about the 10 Commandment tablet in the Alabama State Supreme Court? How about teaching the Judeo/Christian version of the creation myth in public school science classes?> Extreme political correctness is not, and should not be the reinforcement of the first amendment right; the first amendment right is reinforcement in itself, to protect citizen’s rights.When people trot out the tired "political correctness" phrase, it's because their ox is being gored, not the other guys.> Liberals believe in Negotiations with the terrorists, as well as giving the terrorists whatever they want in hopes of them backing down, and I haven’t seen it work.That's just plain stupid. You've been listening to closely to Carl Rove. Pretty much everyone supported the invasion of Afghanistan; that's where the 9/11 terrorists were nurtured, with the complicity of the Taliban. Steve, do you really believe that Osaka binladens demands are negotiable? If so, why don’t you go negotiate with him yourself? And when in history did we ever win a war by trying to negotiate, and make piece with invaders (did you think I was going to say enemy? No, invaders are the proper word because the “enemy” CAN be negotiated with as a first attempt at ending conflict. Invaders usually have no intention of making peace unless they’re the ones in control.)> That's just more nonsense following a nonsensical premise.> Whose side are you on?Do you know what a straw man is?> Jesus' idea was to help the poor indeed. However, back then the only real way anyone could help the poor would be to give things to them.Jesus gave specific instructions on how to help the poor. Are you saying that what he preached is no longer relevant?> Communism just paying people and only the rich have jobs, that’s what makes useless people.I don't know who you're arguing with about communism. China's economic system now hardly has any connection to communism. Still, communist Vietnam is in better shape than a lot of capitalist countries in Central America and the Caribbean.> Jesus wanted people to help each other out. When you give someone the proper tools in order to succeed, you’ve done something that’s past the value of any amount of food,And any volume of currency.That's nice. Why don't you ask George W. Bush why assistance for such things has been cut?
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In reply to:
Fox (also known as Bush-AssLicking 24/7).
thats another one i wanna target. and oRc hates bush too yippee!!!!!!!!!!! im not sure. im only 14 but my ideas are mostly left wing socialism. i dislike keeping people rich and letting the poor rise up on their own with no benifits and money (conservative). dont blame me thou, my ideas are mostly joined with wat my teachers (or teacher of history) and my parents think. im still sorting that out. when i acctually get a job then i'll want low tax conservatives to be in power unfortunately
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In reply to: In much of Western Europe people argue politics openly, and it doesn't get as ugly as it does in the U.S. Unfortunately the United Kingdom isn't one of those countries. Over here (as in the USA from my experience), the majority of the population has no real interest in politics and no real knowledge of politics but still likes to put their point across. It frequently gets ugly.Why is it that many Brits and Americans are not capable of discussing things rationally in the way that people from many other nations are?
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-How about teaching the Judeo/Christian version of the creation myth in public school science classes?Why the double standard. Is it we can only inform children of evolution in schools and ignore creation. The child should be informed of both and be given the choice for them to deciede. You rather cram evolution down my throat than let me deciede on my own it seems. I don't preach about creation without being ambushed by non believers, but its quite alright for you to preach about evolution, it just doesn't make sense.-> Katie Curric, (or however her name is spelled) When speaking with someone, asked if the London bombings were because bush was in Iraq. However, it’s known that the bombings were done by Muslim British citizens and not by anyone from Iraq themselves. Or even anyone from the middle eastDidn't I already go over this in the London bombing thread? There is good evidence that the bombing, even though apparently carried out under the direction of Al Qaida, or a related group. The Sunni Radical say they are very angry about the American and European presence in Iraq. Why would they lie about that?Its funny to look at the difference between today and the 40s. Spain withdrew its troops after the Madrid attacks, no doubt the reason for the attacks was based on the War in Iraq. Even if there is a terrorist attack in the US, which could be likely because of our porus borders, hopefully times haven't changed too much. If we were to surrender and withdraw our troops when U-boats attacked US ships in WWII, there is no doubt the brits would be speaking german and their would be a lot less jews on earth, but with your hatred for Judeo and Christian beliefs you probably wouldn't mind. The point is that our media and the liberals promote only a PC war, if one at all and that is the difference. Its not much to say, i'm getting kind of bored of this, it will never end. There has been wars and political arguments for thousands of years, so its certain it won't end.
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How about teaching the Judeo/Christian version of the creation myth in public school science classes?> Why the double standard. Is it we can only inform children of evolution in schools and ignore creation. The child should be informed of both and be given the choice for them to deciede. You rather cram evolution down my throat than let me deciede on my own it seems. I don't preach about creation without being ambushed by non believers, but its quite alright for you to preach about evolution, it just doesn't make sense.Which creation myth do you think the public schools should teach? The Judeo/Christian one, the Hindu one, some animist version, etc.? Parents certainly have the right to have their children exposed to religious doctrine, but not in public schools. If they're not teaching stuff like that, what exactly are they doing in conservative churches?>>> Katie Curric, (or however her name is spelled) When speaking with someone, asked if the London bombings were because bush was in Iraq. However, it’s known that the bombings were done by Muslim British citizens and not by anyone from Iraq themselves. Or even anyone from the middle east>> Didn't I already go over this in the London bombing thread? There is good evidence that the bombing, even though apparently carried out under the direction of Al Qaida, or a related group. The Sunni Radical say they are very angry about the American and European presence in Iraq. Why would they lie about that?> Its funny to look at the difference between today and the 40s. Spain withdrew its troops after the Madrid attacks, no doubt the reason for the attacks was based on the War in Iraq. Even if there is a terrorist attack in the US, which could be likely because of our porus borders, hopefully times haven't changed too much. If we were to surrender and withdraw our troops when U-boats attacked US ships in WWII, there is no doubt the brits would be speaking german and their would be a lot less jews on earth, but with your hatred for Judeo and Christian beliefs you probably wouldn't mind. The point is that our media and the liberals promote only a PC war, if one at all and that is the difference.It's too bad, when someone paints themselves into a corner, and they have to keep doing the wrong thing in order to save face. The CIA said last month that Iraq has become a huge training ground for Sunni terrorists. Our presence there is obviously not preventing terrorist attacks. They've greatly increased in number, all over the world, since the U.S. has been in Iraq.> their would be a lot less jews on earth, but with your hatred for Judeo and Christian beliefs you probably wouldn't mind.You are an asshole.> Its not much to say, i'm getting kind of bored of this, it will never end. There has been wars and political arguments for thousands of years, so its certain it won't end.Just stop posting to this thread, and it will end.
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-> stop posting on this thread, and this thread will end.And let you have the last word?2) Buying government bonds to help the government, and make a buck or 2 (obviously more then a a buck or 2) in the process. Was not an idea made by liberals, socialists, and commies. As I recall and i'm probably wrong, was an idea made by alexander hamilton.3) "give them your fucking money" says a celebrity at a concert/donation. This is a common idealisim made by many celebrities. People should give their money for the common good, but feel reluctant about doing it themselfs. 4) ok.. What would happen if the government took all of the money in their country, and gave each family the same amount in average. This way everyone is equal. Well... the people who were rich would just get rich again because they knew how, and the people who were poor, will probably become poor again because they've never delt with that much money before. However since some rich people have finanial advisors, you cant apply this prediction to everyone.5) In america, if your homeless, your homeless by choice.Why? because there are retirment homes, homeles shelters, welfare. and some kind people out there. (this is all in long term of course, you may not have a home for like... 1 week because you were evicted. But like all things, you cant apply everyone to the generalization of "what if")
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And let you have the last word?Yeah, that would be pretty awful, for people who care about such things.> Buying government bonds to help the government...You understand that bonds represent debt, right? The government owes money to whomever holds the bonds, and it would be catastrophic for the value of U.S. currency if the government were to default on those bonds. I'll leave it as an exercise to you to figure out why it would be bad for a foreign entity to own U.S. government debt that's equal to a sizeable percentage of the GDP. Here's a hint: "We're going to dump all of our U.S. bonds unless you do what we tell you to".> "give them your fucking money" I have no idea what that's all about.> What would happen if the government took all of the money in their country [and redistributed it?]Who's suggesting that? If you're saying that talent and ambition are not evenly distributed, I agree with that.> In america, if your homeless, your homeless by choice.I assume you're replying to the conservative guy. That was a pretty mean-spirited sentiment. And false. There are working people with families who are one paycheck away from life in the street. Sometimes they lose that paycheck. Social services are not the miracle the conservative guy might think they are. There is not enough space in shelters for everyone. There are not enough temporary housing slots either. For some people, especially if they're Christian (and want to spend public money teaching the Creation myth in public schools), why is meanness such a big part of their conservative ideology?
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-Which creation myth do you think the public schools should teach? The Judeo/Christian one, the Hindu one, some animist version, etc.? Parents certainly have the right to have their children exposed to religious doctrine, but not in public schools. If they're not teaching stuff like that, what exactly are they doing in conservative churches?The point is that they are being forced to be exposed to the "evolution theory" in public schools. Which is craming non-religious views down their throats. Why the bias against religion, the double standard in favor of athiesism? Here's something to think about, is the US government siding with athiest in public schools, supporting freedom from religion instead of freedom of religion, if one. Obviously you haven't been to grade school in awhile, so you don't know how we are forced to indure the contradictions of what we learn in churches and be graded on it. We learn from churches, but then we go to school and told we are wrong and that evolution is written in stone. Why not the parents teach them about evolution in the home life if they want? ALL or NONE, lets get rid of bias, liberal properganda in our school system and media, or at least to the level of "conservative properganda."
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I think I'm starting to get a sense of the nature of the force that drives your conservatism.> The point is that they are being forced to be exposed to the "evolution theory" in public schools. Which is craming non-religious views down their throats.Are you saying that it's bad that science is being crammed down the throats of students in public schools? Folks who want to teach evolution use "evolution theory" in a backhanded way, because they don't understand what the word "theory", when applied to science, really means. There is a fringe of scientists who dispute it, but they are in a small minority. Evolution is widely accepted in science, for good reason.Again I ask you, which of the creation myths will be the chosen one? Or will every myth be taught, and given equal billing with the scientific explanation?"When it is a duty to worship the sun it is pretty sure to be a crime to examine the laws of heat." --John Morley > Why the bias against religion, the double standard in favor of athiesism? Here's something to think about, is the US government siding with athiest in public schools, supporting freedom from religion instead of freedom of religion, if one.Do you see atheism everywhere you look? Are you upset that mathematics is taught without mention of scripture or diety? Evolution has nothing to do with atheism. All it is is a scientific explanation, the best one we have so far (it's being continually refined). What's with the persecution complex?> Obviously you haven't been to grade school in awhile, so you don't know how we are forced to indure the contradictions of what we learn in churches and be graded on it. We learn from churches, but then we go to school and told we are wrong and that evolution is written in stone. Why not the parents teach them about evolution in the home life if they want?I don't know what to tell you there. If a religion teaches that gravity is optional (Trancendental Meditation), what can you do? If you care about the U.S.'s technical economy's advancement, then real science has to be taught. Otherwise "secular" Europe and Asia will be eating our lunch, while we praise the Lord and work at Walmart, or have assembly line jobs building washing machines for Chinese companies.> ALL or NONE, lets get rid of bias, liberal properganda in our school system and media, or at least to the level of "conservative properganda."If you consider science to be "liberal propagana", then we have a problem. Should "liberal propaganda" be reduced to the level of conservative propaganda on Fox News?
