George W. Bush

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...who has lived and died for this country, to make it great and free.Does the freedom of Iraq really matter, or do Western interests in Iraq and the Middle East trump all? Is the moral imperitive that the strongest is the one who rules, or is morality besides the point? Isn't that a justification for slavery?

That post had nothing to do with Iraq. Your point is valid, if a bit out of context so it seems to me (the particular line of mine you quote seems particularly out of place, but I understand what your saying). The way it is, is that I just dont care all that much about Iraq. I have little moral drive, my prime interest is personal and national interest and the only arguements I listen to against the Iraq war are those that claim it simply isnt in our interest (of which I have heard a fair few decent arguements, including from yourself). To me the freedom of Iraq doenst really matter, no. I'm just not that bothered by it. I do care a great deal about freedom in the Industrilised world (A better term than Western World; and before its pointed out I do very much oppose Bush and Blairs anti-terror laws, a threat which bothers more than anything in the middle-east). I dont care for high morality. I just care about a world where the industrial nations are liberal and free and coopertaing among themselves, while the rest of the world is thoroghly incapable of challanging it without first embracing secular, liberal-capitalism (not something I am convinced we are capable of forcing apon Iraq, I dont think an ideological crusade will work in the middle-east. Liberal capitalism and democracy wasnt something any nation has ever had handed to it, it had to go down a long wearisome path towards it. On this point America and Britain are misguided). Iraq isnt a major issue that drives me to be honest, as long as America retains both power and its traditional liberty (which no doubt is under threat under Bush more than previous leaders) then I'm happy and I dont mind how it goes about doing this as long as I get the result.

(George W. Bush doesn't have much to do with the historical conflict between Ireland and England.)I won't address your points on morality vis-a-vis Iraq, but I'm sure you'll agree that our involvement, at least the U.S.'s, is ultimately a threat to our economy, and thus a threat to our nation. And after all that has been done, they terrorist threat to the U.S. is much more significant than it was before the invasion of Iraq, if th 1e recent National Intelligence Estimate (authored by the 16 American intelligence agencies) is to be believed. Their oil reserves are now at greater risk of being used against Western interests than ever.Our involvement in Iraq has been nothing short of a collosal disater.

Iraq was a massive mistake, there is no doubting that. And the trouble is that we have no time machine to go back and stop it from happening. So we're stuck with a fucked up situation in Iraq with very limited choices, and very few of them would have any success.

(we were dicussing terminology and me recieving the small curtosy of not being insulted constantly by the use of a grossly incorrect and disrespectful name. If a Black was called a n***** on her you'd expect them to respond right? Btw that should be Ireland and Britain )War is never economical, at least not in the shoort term. The American economy can weather it however, as long as it doesnt allow itself to be drawn into increasing interventionism. Neocons meddle in peoples lives a hell lot more than good ol' liberal-capitalist conservatives. Meddling costs money. Get rid of the neocons. As for terrorism, well wuppy do. Terrorism seems all new and exciting to you in America, but we've been dealing with it in much of the rest of the world for decades. That terrorism would increase because of the war surely is something we were taking for granted before we invaded, anyone who didnt think so was a fool. We can weather it (infact, we can weather it without any disgusting, liberty killing, anti-terror laws).Where there really is damage to our position, is international politics. If a situation started up, as they do, then it would be nigh impossible for us to go to war even if we pulled out of Iraq, as we no longer have the political maneuverability. We are politically crippled. The damage will be repaired, but it will take some time, and we shall have to hope no greater threat arises in that time. This is the most negative effect of the Iraq war for the US and Britain.

The American economy can weather it howeverI wouldn't be so sanguine. The U.S.'s national debt is increasing every year, and an increasing percetage of our tax revenues goes to service the debt (in the form of interest payments on bonds, the great majorirty of which goes to foreigners). And we are still wasting a ton of money on a military that's equipped to fight a war of 30 years ago.Without further addressing your justification for going to war in Iraq, the big problem for us is that the person about whom this thread is about did not execute the war competently. Had the post-war period gone very well for the U.S., the negative issues may not have come up, and (perhaps this is idealistic), the U.S. could have withdrawn, and would be in a better position do deal with other threats as they've come up (to wit, Iran, North Korea, and Syira. I'm not sure if you realize how much the U.S. is spending on the Iraq disaster (the bill could come to 2 trillion dollars ($2,000,000,000,000) within a few years).Clinton was apparently close to some kind of agreement with North Korea before he left office. Bush and his people (Cheney, etc.) considered anything that Clinton was involved in to be evil and wrong...no matter what. They tossed it out and decided a hard-line strategy was the way to go. That strategey, as we can see, has been a complete failure. North Korea apparently successfully tested their first atomic bomb yesterday.Bush's presidency has been a complete disaster not just for the U.S., but for the world. Is the hostility toward the U.S. really a mystery?

"I dont know if you can comprehend how insulting that is, to be told my nation effectively doesnt exist. What gives you the right to do that?"

Yes I am aware that you are Welsh and as such YOU have every right to regard yourself as british if you choose, just as northern Protestants on this island have every right to regard themselves as british (my issue is with them regarding the soil they inhabit in the same light) What you are not getting here is how insulting it is for you to demand of an Irish person that they accept that terminology and incorporate in into their own speech. Do you think you have the right to put words in my mouth?

I have always referred to people from England, Scotland, Wales and northern Ireland as English, Scottish, Welsh and northern Irish and if you don't like that, well that's your problem. It might throw a spanner in the works of your 'we're all of the one happy unified whole' theory to know that I have met several Scotch and Welsh people over the years who resent being labelled 'british' or 'uk residents' as much an any northern Irish nationalist does. Can you explain why that fact exists, if you are all members of one happy union? If I were to apply those terms to everyone I met from Scotland and Wales I would inevitably insult at least as many people as I would do by refusing to use them, and that is a fact, whether you like it or not. Your 'unified nation' exists in your mind and in the perceptions of other like-minded individuals, but that does not make it a reality for all, and you have no right to insist that anybody use terminology that would impose your views on anybody else.

I have noticed on trips to Anglesey (which is in Wales for anybody who doesn't know) how very nationalistic the Welsh clearly are; there isn't a single signpost or street-sign that identifies an area with English as a main heading, ALL such public signage there is displayed in Welsh and where English is included at all it is in a smaller sub-heading. This is one example of how clearly defined the cultural landscape is in what you prefer to refer to as 'the uk'.

"the union hasnt even been around for a thousand years so that cant be true"

You can call it 'the uk', 'britain' or 'the british empire', put what label on it you like; it has been tormenting us since the eleven hundreds, so give or take a couple of decades, it has made its presence felt in this country for a thousand years.

"I want us to attack other countries"

The above really is a little gem of a comment, and all the more so since you claim my 'inaccurate titling' to be such an affront to your national dignity. So somebody describes the war effort as 'English' and you are "insulted", but what about the people who live in the Middle Eastern countries you "want us to attack"? What about their national dignity? Did that ever occur to you? If it did, it clearly never struck you as anything worth a damn. You are a strong proponent of those countries being invaded and having their very autonomy forcibly removed, resulting in widespread misery and death with not a thought for their national dignity. I think your hypocrisy has made itself apparent with no need for further highlighting of your position by me.

This isn't adding to anybody's argument, its just a funny little fact.The Irish word for Wales is An Bhreatain Bheag, which translated word for word means "Little Britain".And I'm done...

I wonder how Bush will respond to the nuclear testing in Korea? Another leg of the war perhaps. I think world war three may be on the way, God help us all..

I'm not sure what will happen, but somebody has to do something to ease the international tention before N.Korea gains the materials needed to create another M.A.D. situation. Granted they could never reach the numbers that the US has in nuclear weapons, but even a few weapons are a cause for alarm.I just hope Bush doesn't act like the short-sited idiot that we've come to know and love.

Well there was no proof of nuclear testing in Iraq and he waded in there gungho, so if he dosent do the same with Korea it'll be interesting to hear his 'rationale' on the subject..

This whole deal may be the biggest mistake N.Korea has ever made. Even the Chinese representative of the United Nations said that "no one is going to protect North Korea" if it engages in "bad behaviour".I'm not sure if its even a question that Bush will either attack or apply an enormous amount of pressure on N.Korea. The only thing that needs to be asked is if he is gonna make another fiasco like Iraq. I'm not a fan of the North Korean government at all because not only do they support terrorists, but they treat their people horendously. If the US or even anyone attacks N.Korea, I just hope that the people are taken into consideration a lot more than the people of Iraq were.

The whole thing is making me very nervous I have to say. There are our soldiers gone out to Lebanon now which will cast us in an even worse light with the Islamic extremists. I really feel that if the political leaders of the world dont pull their heads out of their arses we could we looking at WW3. At least we know the military might of China will not be behind North Korea should things go pear shaped, that really would spell armageddon for us all..

please don't say WW3... that sucksWe're doing a class project and research papers on North Korea. We saw a video about it and everything. It's really depressing and I truly feel for the people that are over there who can't leave or have any free will at all. Communism sucks and needs to be abolished immediately. It's destroying way too many lives. and Marxism needs to go too

What do you mean 'it sucks' Japanfan? Do you mean because it is a scary thought? It IS a scary thought hon, it scares the shite out of me I can tell you, but it might be closer than any of us would like to believe; please God I'm wrong.I don’t share your views that presume an evil inherent to communism/Marxism by the way, I think there's plenty enough evil in capitalism for us to be going on with. I am sure that any socio-economic structure will show negative facets when mismanaged and I think we can be assured of this by looking at, for just one example; the nightmarishly unfair class system capitalism has cursed us with.

Oh holy sweet Jesus, you agree with Abi!?!? That is such a shock!! I thought you'd disagree with her completely like you usually do!!Sarcasm aside, I honestly wouldn't mind you repeating what Abi says and saying that is your opinion, but please stop agreeing with Abi! Its probably just me, but it makes you look like such an arse-licker!

Can you explain why communism and marxism are bad? They seem to be working out pretty well for China. But is China really marxist? In fact, is any real-life country, past or present, actually communist? And what about the Israeli collective communities -- the kibbutzim. Were they communistic? How did it go for them?I think the issue with North Korea has more to do with the nature of its leader than its economic system, which is what communism is. Think of democratic authoritarian in one dimension, and socialist capitalist in a completely separarate dimension.In any case, Bush's policy toward North Korea has been an utter failure, whether or not what they blew up yesterday was really an A-bomb.

That is what I was going to say. There have not been any countries who have turned Communist that have followed the true Marxist path.

well, I didn't mean it in a rude way. It's just reading in history what Communism has done to damage so many lives, people are evil. I didn't care much about Communism or whatever until I lost my friend completely because of it. Most would say it was her fault to begin with for even going over there but whatever. It's really depressing knowing that people's lives have to be restricted.With the WW3 issue... not good... at all. In my beliefs though not really you guys. Most of you don't believe the same thing as me so that's ok. But WW3 is really really REALLY bad. and... the fact that it's coming so soon is even worse. ugh, these are the days when we pray just a little bit more than ever. Not just for family and friends but for my country, officials, Europe, Africa, Asia etc etc. bad topic I'm gonna leave lol

Wait. I'm confused. Your friend died because of Communism?