God hates...

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Originally Posted By: bobalicious

But again, what is this ridiculous belief that Atheists lack a moral compass?

You left out the key word, "external"...as in "outside of your own self". If you have a compass that always points to true north, then it has value...you can always determine the true direction you're moving in. If you have a compass that points in whatever direction you want north to be so that you can move in whatever direction you want to (do whatever you want to do), then it's not very valuable in determining what your true direction is. In other words, a moral compass that is not external is of no real value at all...you might as well not even have one.

So are you saying that pragmatism and benevolence have no meaning in the demonstration of ethical human will unless they are qualified by an outside source? Goodness, in and of itself, is of no value and not demonstrative of anything unless it passes the litmus test of religion?What happens when the outside source is wrong or vague enough that it offers no obviously clear direction?

Well to continue in this battle of the compass metaphor, whats to say that your external compass is pointing true North? Since my internal compasss can change then if I am ever proven wrong, I can change to better myself. If you find out that your compass, your Bible, is wrong then what can you do? Ignore the fault? Well, if you can ignore one part of the Bible then doesn't that change the entire validity of the rest of the book? But parts of the Bible have been proven wrong, scientifically and morally, yet you stick to it wholeheartedly. So I believe that you are one person that is fully incapable of judging my morals.

Quote:and why do you think that Christians only talk about going to hell? that's a stereotype.I don't think that Christians only talk about Hell. Amongst yourselves you have no need to talk of it, you feel the love of Christ and you're already saved. But when talking to non-Christians (not you specifically, but the men and women intent on saving my soul) we are first told of the joy and love of Jesus and God, and when we say that we don't need His love, then come the fear tactics. We're told how we must choose between living a life of Christian beliefs or suffer for eternity in Hell.You are not one of these people, my moral belief (which Thor would deem invalid) is that you are a good person. You don't push yourself and your religion into other people's lives.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousYou are not one of these people, my moral belief (which Thor would deem invalid) is that you are a good person. You don't push yourself and your religion into other people's lives. Then part (at least) of your moral code must mean not pushing your personal morals onto somebody else, yes? Skipping for the moment that you seem to violate that regularly...without everyone else having the same code as you do, do you see how valueless it is as a moral compass? If everyone doesn't have that same concept as part of their own moral code, what can be expected of society as a whole? Can you ever expect everyone to agree on what is right and what is wrong, much less do it?

Originally Posted By: OldFolksSo are you saying that pragmatism and benevolence have no meaning in the demonstration of ethical human will unless they are qualified by an outside source?Of course they have value...but who is to determine what pragmatism and benevolence consist of? And will two people ALWAYS make the same determination...much less an entire populace?Quote:Goodness, in and of itself, is of no value and not demonstrative of anything unless it passes the litmus test of religion?What is goodness, and who determines what it is for us all? Are you more qualified than I to determine what is good and what is not?Quote:What happens when the outside source is wrong or vague enough that it offers no obviously clear direction? Vagueness is certainly an issue...but again, what constitutes an outside source being "wrong"? Who makes that determination?There are certain camps that believe such determinations should be made by consensus...getting a group of folks to abide by such a consensus in today's growing belief in ones own moral compass would be a task in and of itself. The major problem I see with a determination by consensus is that it tends to set the value of such a moral compass at a mediocre level...one that wouldn't require much effort to "live up to" (or "live down to") by most folks. There would be no striving to achieve a greater level than that which we already are at. I'm sure, however, that there are plenty of folks who would find that acceptable, though...perhaps even the majority.

Its OK bobbo, Morals just get in the way and slow you down anyways. Better off with out them.

Okay...I just have to point this out.What we have here is another Christianity/religion debate type thread that's been going on for quite a while...But there's something different...No one has been called names. No one has been yelled at or demeaned. It's been basically respectful. That's weird.Hmmmm...wonder what's different...Good for us!!!(Damien pats the A2A hive-mind on it's collective back.)

Personally, I call myself a cheap jew every morning. Hows *that* for name calling. *snickers*

You sound like Woody Allen!

I was waiting for someone to say that!

You look like Woody Allen too.

Would that make you gay?

I've never been happier to be gay in my life! Ha, I suppose I could say that I've never been more gay!

So long as your comfortable with yourself hon :P

I'd feel a little more confortable with you...

yah um.. I'm not going to change up my tactics and way of doing things for other people. if that's what I do then I'm going to continue doing it. and if they have a problem with it then that's their own biz. and it's mostly friends.bob< but when you say Christians, you group all of us together. that's like me saying Muslims or Catholics do this and that when I only mean a certain group. I'd say Muslims that do this, so that I won't group every Muslim into the same thing.

Quote:yah um.. I'm not going to change up my tactics and way of doing things for other people. if that's what I do then I'm going to continue doing it. and if they have a problem with it then that's their own biz. and it's mostly friends. Very Good! I think in most cases you shouldn't change for other people. The point of that paragraph was to give an example of how people often alienate people for being different. Even if everyone at a high school lunch table is Christian, it doesn't mean they won't pick at you for praying before you eat.

oh believe me I know. and I've learned not to be so attitudish with them anymore by saying things like "I'm gonna kill you!" or "I'll chop off your balls and hang it on my wall". bad habit. now I just say "God bless you" lol people hate that.

Originally Posted By: JapanFan14

I've learned not to be so attitudish with them anymore by saying things like "I'm gonna kill you!" or "I'll chop off your balls and hang it on my wall". bad habit. now I just say "God bless you" lol people hate that.

yes, I also prefer "Gesundheit"