Pope says condoms won't solve AIDS

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Quote:YAOUNDE, Cameroon – Condoms are not the answer to Africa's fight against HIV, Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday as he began a weeklong trip to the continent. It was the pope's first explicit statement on an issue that has divided even clergy working with AIDS patients.Benedict arrived in Yaounde, Cameroon's capital, on Tuesday afternoon, greeted by a crowd of flag-waving faithful and snapping cameras. The visit is his first pilgrimage as pontiff to Africa.In his four years as pope, Benedict had never directly addressed condom use, although his position is not new. His predecessor, Pope John Paul II, often said that sexual abstinence — not condoms — was the best way to prevent the spread of the disease.Benedict also said the Roman Catholic Church was at the forefront of the battle against AIDS."You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane heading to Yaounde. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."The pope said a responsible and moral attitude toward sex would help fight the disease.The Roman Catholic Church rejects the use of condoms as part of its overall teaching against artificial contraception. Senior Vatican officials have advocated fidelity in marriage and abstinence from premarital sex as key weapons in the fight against AIDS.About 22 million people in sub-Saharan Africa are infected with HIV, according to UNAIDS. In 2007, three-quarters of all AIDS deaths worldwide were there, as well as two-thirds of all people living with HIV.Rebecca Hodes with the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa said if the pope was serious about preventing new HIV infections, he would focus on promoting wide access to condoms and spreading information on how best to use them."Instead, his opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans," said Hodes, head of policy, communication and research for the organization.Hodes said the pope was right that condoms are not the sole solution to Africa's AIDS epidemic, but added they are one of the very few proven measures to prevent HIV infections.Even some priests and nuns working with those living with HIV/AIDS question the church's opposition to condoms amid the pandemic ravaging Africa. Ordinary Africans do as well."Talking about the nonuse of condoms is out of place. We need condoms to protect ourselves against diseases and AIDS," teacher Narcisse Takou said Tuesday in Yaounde.Benedict's African trip this week will also take him to Angola.A crowd of photographers and cameras flashed as Benedict stepped off the plane in Yaounde, where the temperature was 88 degrees Fahrenheit (31 Celsius) with high humidity.The pope was greeted by Cameroon's President Paul Biya, who has ruled since 1982 and whose government has been accused by Amnesty International of abuses in crushing political opponents.The pope made no specific reference to the situation in Cameroon, but he did say in general remarks on Africa that "a Christian can never remain silent" in the face of violence, poverty, hunger, corruption or abuse of power."The saving message of the Gospel needs to be proclaimed loud and clear so that the light of Christ can shine into the darkness of people's lives," Benedict said as the president and other political leaders looked on. Thousands of people lined the road to watch the pope's motorcade drive into Yaounde, standing shoulder to shoulder in red dirt fields or under palm trees to escape the punishing sun. Africa is the fastest-growing region for the Catholic church, though it competes with Islam and evangelical churches. The pope also said Tuesday he intends to make an appeal for "international solidarity" for Africa in the face of the global economic downturn. He said while the church does not propose specific economic solutions, it can give "spiritual and moral" suggestions. He described the current crisis as the result of "a deficit of ethics in economic structures." "It is here that the church can make a contribution," he said. On the plane, Benedict also dismissed the notion that he was facing increasing opposition and isolation within the church, particularly after an outreach to ultraconservatives that led to his lifting the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop. "The myth of my solitude makes me laugh," the pope said, adding that he has a network of friends and aides whom he sees every day. In a letter to Catholic bishops last week, the pope made an unusual public acknowledgment of Vatican mistakes and turmoil in his church over the rehabilitation of Bishop Richard Williamson. While acknowledging mistakes were made in handling the Williamson affair, Benedict said he was saddened that he was criticized "with open hostility" even by those who should have known better. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_on_re_af/af_pope_africaThough I might agree that condoms won't get ride of the epidemic completely, it will GREATLY reduce the spread of the disease.And don't give me the whole "But if everyone used abstinence it would solve the epidemic". Though it might be true, but lets be real... it’s not going to happen. People, young and old, are going to have sex, married or not. So we need to be realistic and teach safe-sex education and the proper use of condoms. If anything I find it highly irresponsible NOT to teach safe-sex practices; this includes condoms AND abstinence.

Thank you! *does the open-arm-hug/agreeing-thing-you-often-see-on-seinfeld thing or the one-handed-server-style-arm-thing*
^.^
(For the record, I agree with everything that you said.)

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So we need to be realistic and teach safe-sex education and the proper use of condoms. If anything I find it highly irresponsible NOT to teach safe-sex practices; this includes condoms AND abstinence.

A parent and staff member of the Board of Ed in Mount Vernon, NY brought this up one night and they were basically laughed right out the meeting and off of the board.

Mount Vernon's AIDs rate is off the charts.

The only problem I find with this topic is that it tends to err away from the fault of the person having a sex and place it on the system around him or her.Look at America. We're blamed all the time for having a shitty sexual education system. However from a very young age I knew all about sex and so did everyone I know.People want to take the person who got pregnant or got someone pregnant or got an STD and say that it wasn't their fault, they just weren't educated, but they were.Sex isn't rocket science. The mentality to reproduce is instilled from birth. Additionally it doesn't take much mental strength to understand what a bc pill or condom is.What DOES take strength to learn is taking your bc pill regularly and having the strength to fight that urge to just go "this one time" without a condom swearing "you'll pull out in time" or "I know he / she is safe."I know how strong the urge is to have sex without a condom is. I already have the problem of not being able to finish in a decent amount of time (45 minutes and I'm still going sometimes), which the partner sometimes just isn't up for. The only thing a condom does for me is reduce my enjoyment and possibly render me unable to finish completely before she tires out. I've only been with one partner all my life, but those who are with multiple partners face this temptation even more. They're confident they're partner is safe and additionally they feel they wont get pregnant or get a girl pregnant.We give condoms out for free at Health Departments, we plaster our books with sex education, we offer all these "HelpLines" and discussion forums and books but the results are all the same. Those who are NOT going to use protection are NOT going to use protection, no matter how much we tell them they should.I hope we eventually realise that until the mentality of the people having sex changes we aren't doing shit except pouring money down rat holes. Those who are having sex with protection are doing so because they decided to, just as those having sex without protection are doing so because they decided to.Now are there other situations? Sure. Maybe some people (such as in Africa) are too poor to buy condoms and bc. For that, free condoms and cheaper bc can be a blessing, but that doesn't remove the problem that the mentality of these people places having sex with random people higher their own health. Until people become responsible for themselves and not waiting for other people to do it for them they'll always be a problem.As for abstinence education, I think abstinence-only sex ed is ridiculous. Though I think its equally stupid to not at least mention that the only way to be truly safe is through abstinence. That's just how it is. That's simple fact.This isn't something that needs taught to every kid for 2 years and then get a degree. This is something that can be learned and perfected in 30 minutes reading a pamphlet. From there any decisions are their decisions, not the lack of education.

Thanks for posting that Eddie.....Personally, I think the Cathloic Church as a whole,needs to come into the 21 centry and address real world problems instead of trying to resolve todays problems with it's 16 centry rules and laws.....The church won't change. I haven't seen anything change since they nun's dress code changed in the mid 1960's This Pope is taking us back.... Not forward!!!

Quote:Now are there other situations? Sure. Maybe some people (such as in Africa) are too poor to buy condoms and bc. For that, free condoms and cheaper bc can be a blessing, but that doesn't remove the problem that the mentality of these people places having sex with random people higher their own health. Until people become responsible for themselves and not waiting for other people to do it for them they'll always be a problem. Most of the time it's because of rape.

Originally Posted By: JapanFan14  Quote:Now are there other situations? Sure. Maybe some people (such as in Africa) are too poor to buy condoms and bc. For that, free condoms and cheaper bc can be a blessing, but that doesn't remove the problem that the mentality of these people places having sex with random people higher their own health. Until people become responsible for themselves and not waiting for other people to do it for them they'll always be a problem. Most of the time it's because of rape. While rape is unfortunately extremely high in Africa I sincerely doubt that it is the majority cause of AIDS there.

This may not be true, although it does make sense: Due to the amount of gang/turf/civil/tribal/for-no-reason wars, an infected may take an uninfected adult or child, rape them for whatever the reason may be, bing bang boom, there you go, they contract HIV, and with the lack of hosptials and meds, it becomes AIDS, and an epidemic.

Dude... I helped sponsor an entire missionary's trip to various countries in Africa where we helped build orphanages and small hospitals to take in homeless children, men and woman off the street. For those who did go to Africa informed us that the majority of the young girls and guys had AIDs and had contracted it from being RAPED.

We didn't take that lightly one bit. Then again it was in a pretty rough area. Many of the kids are born with it. There was one 13 year old girl I remember because she was on my prayer list. Her name was Unopa and she had been raped at 8 and got AIDs. Had a child at 12 from the man who raped her and the baby got AIDs too. One of the most depressing and upsetting things I've ever heard.

Actually, I've seen research showing that there is a strong negative correlation between HIV/AIDS and circumcision in men. The inference being that, since Africa has such a small number of circumcised men, they have a much higher rate of HIV/AIDS.

for fuck sakesthat's about as intellegent as corelating AIDS to black skin

yet ignorance is still preached

Originally Posted By: Rad Originally Posted By: LuvMyCatsThis may not be true, although it does make sense: Due to the amount of gang/turf/civil/tribal/for-no-reason wars, an infected may take an uninfected adult or child, rape them for whatever the reason may be, bing bang boom, there you go, they contract HIV, and with the lack of hosptials and meds, it becomes AIDS, and an epidemic. I saw a report on a TV news show that stated some HIV+ men will have sex with HIV- women/girls in order to take the HIV out of them!Of course that doesn't work, but as long as they believe it. they will continue the practice without condoms. Yup yup I read the same thing. Most in these African areas believe AIDS is a curse and the only way to break the curse is to sleep with a virgin. What's worse it doesn't even matter what age, there have been many cases of men raping infants in order to "cure" their disease....

In every case of the transmittal of AIDS that has ever sexually occured, abstinance would have prevented it. Better than a condom, or anything else, because you always have it with you.

Originally Posted By: thorIn every case of the transmittal of AIDS that has ever sexually occured, abstinance would have prevented it. Better than a condom, or anything else, because you always have it with you. Very good (And a response I was expecting from you). Now... go re-read my very first post responding to the article.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself Originally Posted By: thorIn every case of the transmittal of AIDS that has ever sexually occured, abstinance would have prevented it. Better than a condom, or anything else, because you always have it with you. Very good (And a response I was expecting from you). Now... go re-read my very first post responding to the article. I already understand your (predictable) point of view...re-reading what you wrote won't change the fact of what I wrote. I suggest you re-read what I wrote...and this time, think about it.Attempting to justify your desire to do what you want (have sex outside of marriage) at the cost of others lives (those who die as a result of doing just that) doesn't work for me. It's like trying to justify playing Russian Roulette to get your rocks off. Either lives are more important than your desire to do what you want, or they're not. I disagree with your choice on this matter.

Originally Posted By: thor Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself Originally Posted By: thorIn every case of the transmittal of AIDS that has ever sexually occured, abstinance would have prevented it. Better than a condom, or anything else, because you always have it with you. Very good (And a response I was expecting from you). Now... go re-read my very first post responding to the article. I already understand your (predictable) point of view...re-reading what you wrote won't change the fact of what I wrote. I suggest you re-read what I wrote...and this time, think about it.Attempting to justify your desire to do what you want (have sex outside of marriage) at the cost of others lives (those who die as a result of doing just that) doesn't work for me. It's like trying to justify playing Russian Roulette to get your rocks off. Either lives are more important than your desire to do what you want, or they're not. I disagree with your choice on this matter. I believe all he's saying is that abstinence in the majority of Africans is NOT going to happen with the desire to rape with the flippantness the cultures themselves enforce sex.I agree with you about abstinence. The fact that people wont do it doesn't not change the fact that abstinence is an absolute way of preventing the spread of the disease.The problem is they still wont practice it. It goes back to my original post. You can't help those who wont help themselves. The problem is so many innocent people are involved.Superstition and voodoo beliefs have the people performing heinous acts upon each other with little remorse or guilt. NO amount of sex education and condoms is going to change that."Before you rape me, would you please put on this condom?" That's just as unlikely to happen.Again, a change in the mentality of the people has to occur before a change in their sexual habits can occur. For that, about the only solution at this point is hard martial law and capital punishments. If a strong government goes in, and wipes out the current form of government, fills the country with troops that are given orders to execute anyone convicted of anything from theft to rape, then things will change.Until then it's like trying to feed a rabid dog. You're trying to help a country that doesn't WANT to be helped. If you care enough then you have to force a change on the people. Similar to how the British abolished several heinous practices in India.

There's a big difference. The example you set gets people killed. The example I set does not. If you promoted staying with the same partner all your life, that would put you in the same camp...but you don't. You say "use condoms"...probably because you want to be able to have multiple partners (why else?)...but that's not 100% effective, and you know it.

Nothing to add to what you wrote...you already said it. Nobody can help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.

I won't argue the fact that abstinence is the only sure-fire way of not contacting a disease, but to expect that everyone is going to use abstinence is foolish. If we are going to be realistic, it’s not going to happen. So because we know this it’s irresponsible not to teach proper condom use and the importance of using condoms. By only teaching abstinence without also teaching safe sex practices is foolish. People are going to give into temptation, lust (whatever you want to call it) and they need to be prepared on how to take precaution and use condoms.There is nothing wrong with teach both abstinence and safe sex. In today’s world with the diseases we have it’s absolutely essential!And I want to point out, Thor, that there necessarily isn’t anything wrong with giving into your desire as long as you are giving into your desire safely. If a person is going to give into their desire to have sex with their partner, is it not more important that when they do give into the desire that they use protection? Or is it more important to leave people ignorant about safe-sex practices and possible expose them to disease and unwanted pregnancies?