Obama's healthcare plan

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Originally Posted By: unsupervisedPlease, look at all the countries that have adopted a public system and then see how many have reverted back to private. I honestly wonder if any of them ever even had the option to do so. Once government has control, they usually don't give it away.

not entirely. There have been numerous crown corporations that have been privatized over the years here with varying degrees of success.It's not easy to find the right balance in that regard. There are some things best left in the hands of private business professionals because they are way more efficient at turning a profit that the government is. On the other hand, there are industries, like healthcare, where the end service to patients is of greater importance than the bottom line. Does that mean that rampant waste with no regard to accountability is acceptable? Of course not. Lack of accountability is my greatest complaint with all aspects of the public sector (as I said, it's imperfect). But, in some cases such as accessible public healthcare for every man, woman and child, the ends do justify the means.Life wins over profit.You can call me a liberal, I don't mind. Such things are relative anyway. Like the majority of Canadians, I'm a centrist. We've embraced socialized healthcare yet never elected a socialist government. We move back and forth between Liberal and Conservative governments but never stray as far left as NDP or as far right as the former Reform party. (our current political climate is a little goofy so I won't bore you further with that story lol)You have freedom of choice when it comes to politics. You don't need to tow the party line. Most political systems have their good and bad concepts. There is no rule saying that you can't pick and choose the parts to assemble the best society you can achieve. Public heath does not a socialist nation make.

Originally Posted By: unsupervisedLife wins over profit.How I wish it were true. Unfortunately, in this day and age, you can't count on it being true...in either government or the private sector. Either way, you stand a chance of losing. And it is this very fact that always ultimately causes Socialism/Communism to fail. Quote:Public heath does not a socialist nation make. All by itself, probably not. But add in a push for gun control, gag orders and staged question/answer sessions where the news reporters are all given their questions to ask by the administration and you have the makings of a socialist regime the likes of which this country has never even been close to.

Quote:staged question/answer sessions where the news reporters are all given their questions to ask by the administration as a strange coincidence, our current government, the most conservative we've ever seen, is notorious for this tactic.

Originally Posted By: unsupervised  Quote:staged question/answer sessions where the news reporters are all given their questions to ask by the administration as a strange coincidence, our current government, the most conservative we've ever seen, is notorious for this tactic. It's new for us...maybe Canada is more socialist than you think.

HELL NO!now, if you'll excuse me, my 17 room mates are holding my spot in the bread line

new?Really?Bush did it for 8 years before now, Reagan did it, and Nancy ran the country because he could not recall his own shoe size, Nixon did it up right, and was at the center of watergate.Or since they were all rethuglicans, did they go unnoticed and now you care as its a democrat?If you think its new, maybe your less intelligent than I gave you credit for, granted, it was not a great deal to begin with.

Originally Posted By: Grvtykllrnew?Really?Bush did it for 8 years before now, Reagan did it, and Nancy ran the country because he could not recall his own shoe size, Nixon did it up right, and was at the center of watergate.Or since they were all rethuglicans, did they go unnoticed and now you care as its a democrat?If you think its new, maybe your less intelligent than I gave you credit for, granted, it was not a great deal to begin with. Point blank...you don't know what you're talking about. This has never been done before. Seeding some, yes...but not allowing anybody to ask a question without it being handed to them first? That's purely Obama, in this country.

A Puritan you seem to make,
When out of your box you will not step,
The White House will tremble and shake,
When climbs to the top, a noisy Rep.

:smirk:

Yeah, again...it's wavered. Surprise surprise. Jab here, stab there, nothing's changed...why can't we be intelligent about this?

A few inconvenient facts...for Obamanites, that is

you fascists disgust me!

Rogers begins with the statement that 85% of Americas shouldn't be punished for the 15% that can't afford healthcare. This is a form of fascism more heinous than most. You would prefer that an entire LOWER class of your fellow citizens die of curable ailments than to cooperate to help them. What would Jesus say to that?

That is sick and pathetic. Why don't you just send them to concentration camps to keep their corpses from making your streets look untidy.

Tell me this, why should 99.9% of Americans be punished by paying to have the fire department put out the fires in .01% of the homes?

Enjoy your life of privilege while it lasts. If unforeseen circumstances send you down to the condemned class, I hope you find comfort in prayer because you won't find it in a hospital.

You find a way to help the 15% instead of tearing down the 85%. It's very, very simple.

Originally Posted By: RadBut, the silence on the bills do concern me. I know this post will give ammunition to thor, but I am curious why the government is remaining silent of the specifics of the bills and not countering the right wing's scare tactics.Maybe because they can't?I find it also alarming that the bill was changed up until 3AM on the day it was supposed to be voted on. How can congressman vote on something they haven't even had the opportunity to read completely?

Actually they have, on the White House website they have all these myths people like Thor like to throw around Debunked.

Also I believe I heard Obama will be holding another conference soon to go over the bill again and to explain it further.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfActually they have, on the White House website they have all these myths people like Thor like to throw around Debunked.It is no myth that over 300 pages were added to the bill at 3AM on the day it was supposed to be voted on. Why?It's no longer a question of "Is Obama trying to pull the wool over our eyes?"...it's now "What does he hope to gain by it?". It certainly does not bode well for the general public if Obama is trying to dupe us (including Congress) into accepting his bill. If it was that good, there would be no need for subterfuge...no need to add anything at 3AM in attempts to sneek it in.

and your magic solution is....?????So, all you think you know about public healthcare has been spoon fed to you by the right wing media.Everything I know about public healthcare I've learned from living my entire life in the system. I don't think that makes you an authority in any way, shape of form. Do you?And don't think I've forgotten about your video from Mr RogersI contacted Stats Can with regard to Roger's statistics. Guess what they told me... [quote] With regard to your question, you can obtain information on the "Canadian Cancer Registry" from our website, however to compare these Statistics with the Statistics of the United-States you would have to contact the Federal Statistics for the United-States./quote] Let me explain this to you. CCR doesn't keep nor publish comparative statistics between Canada and the US.Therefore, when Rogers cites those comparative statistics, HE IS LYING. Just in case you didn't get that, Canadian Cancer Registry has never collected the statistics he quoted.Now, if you like research rather than rhetoric, you can find the actual stats here Canada survival rates American survival rates Stats are fun!In some cases, the US survival rate is actually higher than Canada. But, because the US tracks whites and blacks separately, you'll see that the white survival rate is always higher than the black survival rate and the black rate is always lower than the Canadian arrogate. (we don't track separately)It's not a stretch to say that there is more poverty among black America than white. Therefore, as I stated, your system favors the rich and allows the poor to die.And again, in fine fascist tradition, you keep one foot on the neck of an undesirable class in your oh-so-free country