California to ban spanking

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I recall once, walking down the street at night getting hit in the stomach.AhA!... Your background slowly bubbles to the surface.. What should we do with parents who spank their kids too hard? They should be thrown in jail for a good long time. The kid would be better off with a single parent who can barely make ends meet. Or maybe fine them thousands and thousands of dollars.. That'll teach them.. Hit them in the pocketbook where it counts.

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it's too bad that human children are less sophisticated than dogs and tigers
I think the main issue is that much more is expected of humans. But there may be areas where humans are worse. Do other animals show deliberate cruelty?

I'd have no problem codifying that guideline into law. Of course, it won't prevent all abuse.

AhA!... Your background slowly bubbles to the surface..Not so slowly. I mentioned it further up, in more detail. My parents didn't "spank" very often, but when they did, it often involved things like belts, fists, and open hands.> Hit them in the pocketbook where it counts.There's lots of hitting going on here.The problem is that, in a culture where a little spanking (of babies and toddlers! That's what the law is about!) is acceptable, people have trouble drawing the line. It's kind of like running prisons, where a little torture is acceptable. There are a lot of people who will run with the idea.

those stupid lucky Californian kids!! they get it wayyy too easy. they already have warm weather like... all the time and now they don't get spanked... nice. I and all of my sibs and cousins GREW UP on spankings. The belt was well-known in my house along with the spoon and ruler. I remember we'd get hit for every syllable too. EVILNESS. lol but I definately have more respect for my parents and such and it helped discipline me because I used to be a bad child. My parents don't hit anymore.

Do other animals show deliberate cruelty?It's hard to prove beyond any doubt, but there is very compelling evidence that some animals can be deliberately cruel to others of the same species, especially among primates.Is a lion who kills the cubs of a dispatched male exhibiting cruelty? Probably not. He's more likely following his instincts, and is not emotionally involved. Do dogs really show cruelty? Wolves have the omega member of the pack that they bully, so, possibly so. But primates really do seem to exhibit a lot of behaviors that parallel human behaviors, including deliberate cruelty.

(Yes, she's a female.)> People beat young girls? That's preposterous!I'm not sure why it's worse for a parent to beat up a girl as a boy. They're both equally helpless, if they're being beat. It is preposterous, though.

Like a lot of abuse, it may seem normal at the time, even if it's painful. It seems like everyone does it. Then years later, when you think about its possible effects, you start wondering if it was actually bad, or bad because you think it's bad. Such is the human condition.I can't honestly say that my "disciplining" had a destructive effect on me, but I think I can say that it had no positive effect.

As someone who's been spanked a few times in my life, I can see both sides of this issue. I've been hit with a shoe and a belt (I guess you can call those beatings. LOL) However, I do believe there are times that call for spankings, not beatings. I believe those are two completely different and can not be compared.Like Ineligible said, I think it should only be done with a person's hands, not with a shoe (like me) or an extension cord (like my Dad when he was little).

I think there is a huge difference between hitting and spanking.I do believe in spanking.. not a regular thing though. Id never hit my child.. but im spank them well enough to know better!

Somewhere there must be a line between hitting and spanking, or there has to be a third thing between hitting and spanking.

Sadly, a lot of parents can't find the line. There are a lot of kids getting beaten in their homes. If you speak to a social worker who deals with family issues, you'll find out.

Unfortunately, it's kind of hard for a law to control the behavior of people inside their own homes, when it comes to how hard a parent can spank/hit a child. Abuse often goes on for years, until the child is old enough to defend herself, or leaves home.

Originally Posted By: sdpI think more adults need to be spanked.... Angel??? I say whip it. Whip it good. mwah It's true i have been soooo bad big big grin

This isn't to you Babe, your just the last name on the list.From LiveScience.com (for what ever reason I can't link to the page. Should you care to read the article in is original location here's the address: http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/070124_spanking_study.html )>>>And after all that now it works. Stomps off in exasperation_______________________________________________________________Study Reveals Who Gets SpankedBy Robin LloydSenior Editorposted: 24 January 200708:14 am ET Children in homes full of books and educational games are less likely to get spanked, new research shows.Recent studies have found that corporal punishment can cause significant antisocial behavioral, such as lying, cheating, and hitting, in children as they grow older. So Andrew Grogan-Kaylor of the University of Michigan and his colleague Melanie D. Otis of the University of Kentucky wanted to find out what factors, independent of others, predict whether or not a parent is likely to "spare the rod."Their analysis of answers from 800 respondents on questions about their use of corporal punishment as well as many other family issues arrived at the intellectual stimulation factor. "This is a little bit surprising for parenting researchers that cognitive or intellectual stuff would cross over into behavioral stuff" Grogan-Kaylor told LiveScience. "Real people may know this altogether, but researchers have tended to separate the two areas."A home environment that is intellectually stimulating gives children an opportunity to work through and practice their emotions, think through the consequences of their actions and imagine possibilities for alternative actions in the future, he said. "Allowing children to stretch their brains in that kind of way is allowing children to behave less anti-socially down the road" he said. Parents Say Discipline Isn't Working on KidsCultural contextsThe researchers also found that Protestants were more likely to spank than parents with other religious affiliations. The neighborhood, geographic region or economic status of a family made no difference in the use of spanking, but children's odds of getting whacked decreases as they grow older by 3 percent per year, Grogan-Kaylor said. And parents of black children were more likely to use corporal punishment than parents of white children. "To reduce the use of physical punishment, it may be beneficial to focus on interventions that teach parents to increase the amount of intellectual stimulation in the home" said Grogan-Kaylor, who has also done research showing that children with fewer behavioral problems come from homes with increased intellectual stimulation. Social workers and child and family advocates trying to reduce the use of corporal punishment should pay attention to the role of cultural factors in parents' beliefs about spanking, Grogan-Kaylor and Otis write in the journal Family Relations. Parents often spank because they think it is an effective approach to discipline. Child and family advocates should suggest to parents more effective alternatives to spanking, they write, while acknowledging mothers' and fathers' desire to be good parents. Kids Are Depressing, Study of Parents Finds (This link within the article I can get to work.) 'Bad kids'It's easy enough to justify disciplining a child, physically or otherwise, and the spanking study found what you might expect kids who act out, or externalize their problematic behavior, are more likely to be spanked, while children who tend to withdraw inwards and become anxious or depressed, are less likely to be spanked. The researchers were surprised to find that factors other than bad behavior have an effect on whether or not kids are spanked. "The interesting thing is that there are a lot of other things in the model, aside from what parents tell us kids are doing, that have an effect on whether or not they are spanking," Grogan-Kaylor said. Kids' "behavior is only one of a whole bunch of things that go into the decision as to whether or not to use corporal punishment."Hard FactsOther studies have shown that:More than 90 percent of parents of toddlers say they have spanked their child at least once.About 61 percent of mothers of 3- to 5-year-olds had spanked their child in the past week. Boys are more likely to be spanked than girls.Spanking can continue into adolescent years.People in rural areas and the South are more likely to spank.Mothers spank children more often than fathers do.Economic status of a family makes no difference in the odds of spanking. African-American parents are more likely than white parents to use corporal punishment.Conservative Protestants are more likely to use corporal punishment than parents with other religious affiliations.Parents who value of positive reinforcement tend to view spanking as inappropriate.Source: Andrew Grogan-Taylor, University of Michigan, and Melanie D. Otis, University of Kentucky

It's okay for some people to have different parenting skills.. But doesnt it just drive you nuts when you see some bratty kid just acting up and the mother does NOTHING about it? I was hit and spanked as a child. I wouldnt say i was ABUSED. I was spanked between the ages of 3-8 maybe.. not hard.. but i learned never to do those things again. And when i was a teenager if i talked back to my mother shed slap me across the face.Id never hit my children, because i know that is wrong. But id sure as hell spank them to teach them a leason.

Spanking isn't the magic ingredient that turns bad parenting into good parenting. It may be a short-term way to give the parents some relief, but it's not the only way, and not the best way.

To fundamentalists who think that God said "spare the rod and spoil the child" (and old saw that people believe because it's old, I suppose), you could present a stack of good research ten feet high that contradicts their ideas, and you'll get nowhere. You might as well be talking about evolution.Quote:The researchers were surprised to find that factors other than bad behavior have an effect on whether or not kids are spanked."The interesting thing is that there are a lot of other things in the model, aside from what parents tell us kids are doing, that have an effect on whether or not they are spanking," Grogan-Kaylor said. Kids' "behavior is only one of a whole bunch of things that go into the decision as to whether or not to use corporal punishment."I wonder how many kids get spanked because a parent had a hard day at work, or an argument with his spouse.> More than 90 percent of parents of toddlers say they have spanked their child at least once.Yes, toddlers are getting spanked.> People in rural areas and the South are more likely to spank.Rednecks?> African-American parents are more likely than white parents to use corporal punishment.As if there isn't already enough violence in many African-American communities.> Conservative Protestants are more likely to use corporal punishment than parents with other religious affiliations.Authoritarian?

But doesnt it just drive you nuts when you see some bratty kid just acting up and the mother does NOTHING about it? It's funny you bring that up. This morning in my office a scenario happened that made me think about this topic. A mother came in with her young son ($-5 years old). He would not sit down, he was running all over the place and yelling. The mother would go get him and try to explain to him he needed to stay in the operatory and use inside voices. But he would ignore here and continue on with the disruptive behavior. She than picked him up and sat him in the chair trying to give him a time out. The kids smacked her and jumped off the chair and continued running around causing a lot of noise and annoying the other patients of the office. He at one point even started yelling back at the mother, and she did nothing but try and talk to him.Sorry in that situation the talking was doing nothing and was going to do nothing. But I bet you, a little swat on the butt and than sitting him in that chair might have given her a more positive reaction. In that relationship there was no definition to the child on who had the authority (And not saying the only way to show authority is by spanking).Oh and one last comment I noticed from above about animals in the wild. They even have a form of spanking when their young are being bad. I have seen on many nature channels where a lion would pop the cub on the head when it was being bad. Even seen a monkey where it took its child and spanked it on the butt. So yes spanking is something you can find in the wild as well.

Originally Posted By: Steve_ASpanking isn't the magic ingredient that turns bad parenting into good parenting. It may be a short-term way to give the parents some relief, but it's not the only way, and not the best way. ARGH!!!! you KEEP saying that steve, that parents smack to make themselves feel better, or give some relief and it's not true..........only someone who hasn't had kids could think that in my opinion i can't think of one instance where i have smacked my kids and felt relief!!

If a child is making noise and running amok, an spanking stops it, you don't think the parents feel relief?I'm not saying that's the only reason that parents spank, but frustration is a strong motivator. It a big reason, in general, that a person hits another person.

Originally Posted By: Steve_AIf a child is making noise and running amok, an spanking stops it, you don't think the parents feel relief?I'm not saying that's the only reason that parents spank, but frustration is a strong motivator. It a big reason, in general, that a person hits another person. im glad you said it wasn't the only reason, cos for me its not even part of the reason to smack my kids.as for need relief from kids running amok, i either, if in a supermarket for example, give them something to do, kids general don't play up if they are helping its not actually helping but hey they don't know that LOL or my are sent to their rooms where they can be as noisy as they want, and i dont' have to hear it........LOLFrustration may be a strong motivator in SOME parents to smack, but i disagree that its the majority, well based on the people i know, a smack for me has been nothing about frustration or losing control - but i do agree for some it can be, and again thats where teaching people to be better parents comes in. If you have an alternative to at least try most would, for some a smack is the only way they have ever been taught how to parent.

for some a smack is the only way they have ever been taught how to parent.And that is a sad thing. It reminds me of the Abraham Maslow quote, that went something like, "When your only tool is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail".