California to ban spanking

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a ban on spanking What's next a ban on making kids stand in the corner because it is emotional abuse?

You really think it's necessary to hit a child who's under three years old? Is that a Texas thing?

Originally Posted By: Steve_AYou really think it's necessary to hit a child who's under three years old? Is that a Texas thing? I think there is a different between Hitting and Spanking. I am a firm believer in spanking, when it's truly merited. With that said, I think you have to judge the age of the child and it's mentality. When a child gets older and can comprehend what is being said, I think talking to the child could possibly work and use spanking as a second option.But when a child is young, say three years old, they don't necessarily have the mentality to really understanding what is being said, but they do understand a small swat on the bum. Now I am not saying to smack the child silly, but a single firm swat on the bum is more then enough (In most cases).These are just my opinions of course.

Mentally incapacitated or mentally retarded people might not always understand what is being told to them. Is it OK to hit them too?Distinguishing "hitting" from "spanking" is nothing but a word game. You can't spank someone without hitting them, unless you've succeeded in corralling a new physical force.How much force is it OK to apply to a 1-year-old? 10 newtons? 100? 1000? Up to but not including black-and-blue marks?Dude, in the things we've discussed, I'd say that you have a serious authoritarian streak. Just my opinion.

I don't know how old that kid was, and it would be wrong no matter his age, but imagine if he were 2 years old?Hitting the helpless -- not a good idea.

I can kinda go both ways on this subject. For the most part though I don't see anything terribley wrong with spanking depending on the circumstances etc. To me there is a definite line between beating your child merely disciplining. Though don't think it should be a method used for a first offense. As a child I was spanked once or twice and it definitely got the point across because I sure as hell never did it again.

When you were 2 years old? The law covers age 3 and younger.

Sometimes older people regress mentally, and become child-like. Is it OK to "spank" the elderly?

this is such a hard issue to deal with cos there are good points and bad points on both sides..........as a parent i have spanked my kids VERY rarely - and before people start flaming me don't bother - its only happened less than half a dozen times between the 3 of em, and my eldest is 12.Some parents over-do it and thats wrong, and some people dont' know when to stop and those are the very people that banning spanking is trying - but ini my opinion will fail - to stop, ban or not.There are very successful ways of disciplining your child, and rewarding good behaviour works wonders in getting good results, however the touchy-feeling way of doing things in my mind seems to be breeding a generation who know they can get away with anything and have little or no respect for teachers, the police or their parents, since there is little consequence to there actions......NOT that im saying beating someone for doing things wrong is good either!!!!Instead of banning stuff money and effort out to be put into teaching people how to be good parents, and giving them confidence as such......bad parenting whether being too harsh or too soft creates bratty kids in my opinion - and lets face it none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes.Im not sure taking even more rights away from parents is a good step forward - and no (steve) im not saying its every parents right to smack or hit their kids..........Its just a hard issue to have an opinion on, and hard to know which is right and wrong, i can only go by how i was brought up and i got very few smacks but i did get a few and i wouldn't dream of treating my parents the way i see kids these days treat theres - i work with kids of all ages and the worst behaved are the ones where their parents sit and talk about EVERYTHING - right or wrong thats what i have had experienced.

Well Dude (have we gone surfer now??) it's my opinion don't like it? Oh well, life goes on.There is certainly a difference between beating a child and spanking with the intent of discipline.>Mentally incapacitated or mentally retarded people might not always understand what is being told to them. Is it OK to hit them too?Hmm yeah that’s almost comparable (note my sarcasm). For one is a small child who’s reason for not understanding is age. When it comes to the mentally ill/challenged it’s a disability which requires special needs. You cannot even compare the two.>How much force is it OK to apply to a 1-year-old? 10 newtons? 100? 1000? Up to but not including black-and-blue marks?Yes lets black-and-blue our children rolls eyes. Serious you like to blow things out of the water. I used the word swat because to me that’s basically above a pat on the butt. I never once said a child should be pounded upon until they were black-and-blue, or until it left a red mark. That type of force is not needed to get the point across, especially in a young child (nor do I think it’s needed on any child). And even than not all children need to be spank. I was rarely ever spanked as a child (especially once I got to the age where all I needed was a talking too). I was just simply a good child. It’s really a child-to-child basis. But let me tell you, when I taught preschool you could tell the difference between the children who were spanked and those who were not. Generally those who’s parents admitted to spanking, had child who listened to authority and were well behaved in class. Again, just my observation.My eldest sister has two children. When she first had them she said she was not going to spank them. She talked to them, explained to them the rights and wrongs. They simply never listened. They would push her as far as they could all the time and back talk her. But once she started giving them small swats on the butt, they started listening to her and doing as told. Again, just an observation. >Dude, in the things we've discussed, I'd say that you have a serious authoritarian streak. Just my opinion.Good for your opinion, but you’re wrong. I have my beliefs and you have yours… neither is right or wrong. Actually, funny part is I am actually very easy going and even tempered but you try and make me out to be some monster lol. Good thing your opinion of me means absolutely nothing When the time comes I have kids (Yes through adoption) if a spanking is merited, it will be delivered. I am a firm believer in also explaining to the child why they got the spanking. I believe in complete open communication between child and parent.

Originally Posted By: HelmsmaNI saw this bitch spank her kid once in a Walmart or something....not just a whack or two, but spank spank spank spank spank spank spank spank spank spank And to me that's no longer spanking, that's beating. That is what I don't agree with. There is a line between spanking for discipline and beating a child.Not to mention, I don't see the need to publicly discipline a child. Remove him/her from the situation, even if that means leaving the location.

"Spare the rod, Spoil the child"Government already is too involved in our lives. So, If a parent spanks a child, they could end up in jail? Oooooo that's a great idea. That would work out well for all parties involved.

Angel> however the touchy-feeling way of doing things in my mind seems to be breeding a generation who know they can get away with anything and have little or no respect for teachers, the police or their parents, since there is little consequence to there actionsDo you really think that spanking a child a few times in his life is the determining factor in raising a disrespectful person, versus a stereotypical 1950's kid? As you know, there is a lot more to parenting than that.I grew up with kids who were hit by their parents, and many of them were surely not very respectful to others. Some of them learned that hitting is a good solution to frustrating problems that involve people who are weaker than you are._____________________________Ntro> There is a line between spanking for discipline and beating a child.Can you define that line? Because adults have all manner of idea of where it lies. Some think that hitting a 2-year-old with a belt is fine. What do you think? Is it OK? If not, then how many newtons of force is it OK to apply to a small are of skin? How many strokes is acceptable? 1? 5? 10?You can't just blow off the problem of where the line is drawn.Ntro> There is certainly a difference between beating a child and spanking with the intent of discipline.I assume that you mean that "discipline", but your good intent doesn't necessarily lead to good results. Is it just your gut instinct that spanking a 2-year-old is a good way to modify her behavior? I wouldn't trust your gut on this.Ntro> For one is a small child who’s reason for not understanding is age. When it comes to the mentally ill/challenged it’s a disability which requires special needs. You cannot even compare the two.Do you see what you're typing? "Not understanding"? How does it help to hit someone who is not understanding, whether it's because of age or mental impairment? It's like slapping a dog. It makes no sense. And at what age is it OK to slap a child? Is six months OK in some cases? And why exactly would it not be OK to hit an elderly person who regresses to a child-like state?Ntro> Serious you like to blow things out of the water.Do you understand what a "boundary condition" is? There are people who beat the crap out of their kids and think it's fine. You wouldn't do that, but where do you draw the line? And if you are able to put it into words, how do you get other people to listen? They'll just tell you, "Well, that's your opinion."The edge conditions may seem extreme to you, but there will always be people who are caught up in them. Don't they matter?Ntro> I was just simply a good child.So it's open season on the "bad" children? Unfortunately, a lot of kids get hit when there are frustrating things going on in the parent's life. You were a "good child"? I sure if you had different parents, you might have had a pair who would have found reason to spank you with more regularity.Ntro> Generally those who’s parents admitted to spanking, had child who listened to authority and were well behaved in class.Fantastic observation. I spent a good chunk of my childhood growing up with kids from broken homes, where getting hit by a parent was not uncommon. (I personally didn't grow up in a broken home, but I was periodically hit, and it was usually a lot harder than a swat.) As far as I could see, the result was bullying and disruptive behavior, not to mention fistfights. The lesson learned is, How do you deal with a frustrating situation? You hit first and ask questions later.Ntro> When the time comes I have kids (Yes through adoption) if a spanking is merited, it will be delivered. I hope that you will level with the adoption agency when they ask you about that.Yes, you really do have an authoritarian streak. No kidding. Maybe really bad kids should get the death penalty.

"Spare the rod, Spoil the child"Just because something is an old saying doesn't mean it's wise.> Government already is too involved in our lives.There's a difference between when the government just tells you what to do (e.g., Don't shoot up heroin in the privacy of your own home -- you are for the legalization of shooting up in your own home, right?), and the government's trying to balance the rights of people. The law says that people don't have the right to hit you, no matter how big a jerk you are. Shall we repeal the laws on assault?Do minors have any rights at all? Because dogs and cats do.> So, If a parent spanks a child, they could end up in jail? Oooooo that's a great idea. That would work out well for all parties involved.Without the new law, if a parent hits a child, he can wind up in jail. Where do you draw the line between "spank" and "hit"? A lot of people have trouble with that concept.You really have to wonder why it's OK to assault a child, even an infant, but it's not OK to assault an adult or disabled person.

Originally Posted By: Steve_A No kidding. Maybe really bad kids should get the death penalty. See that bit is an example of what starts off the real fights on this board steve, it was stupid and uncalled for, you have your opinion and other do too and might or might not agree with you but getting childish is uncalled for.No i don't beleive that smacking a child a few times will make such a big change in who they become, its not the ACTUAL smack, its the threat of the smack that used to stop me, which meant i hardly got one......taking away parents rights will only make matters worse......10-20 years ago kids didn't treat for example teachers, like they do now, what reason would you put forward for the change i believe its the lack of disipline that teachers and schools have these days.As i ALREADY said, too harsh parenting is just as bad if not worse as too soft parenting - but there has to be a reason why kids these days act the way they do, i would love to hear your ideas on this, is it just a co-insidence that the more of a touchy feely - lets understand - society we become, the worse our kids run riot or is it something else - like parents using the TV as babysitters for example????children need boundaries, and MOST parents use smacking as a last resort thing to teach that, however the bottom line is banning smacking WILL NOT STOP those parents who beat their kids in the first place........there is no RIGHT answer to this question, just points of view, all of which will differ.....but its a sad thing that we are living in a nanny state more and more, where will it end like movies were sex is outlawed cos ts been seen to be bad for us (diseases etc) and all children are concieved in a lab.......OMG thats such a scary thought (outlawing sex bit i mean LOL)

yawnThat's all thats needed to be said about you.

Great response. Slap away, then. Go hit an infant, if you think it will do some good.

I think I can define that line actually.
lets say a 2 year old is reaching up for a hot stove, a slap on the hand is warrented, atleast I think so, a beating is not.
spanking is a quick slap, maybe on a hand maybe on a ass, what ever. as to how much force Id say that depends on the kid, and a parents reasonable abilty to judge.
It may nto be a definition of the words, but its the guidlines I follow, for good or for ill.

It was an appropriate response to you. Your antics are bored on me Steve. Try and pick a debate with someone who actually cares what you say.Oh and yes I am going to beat an infant rolls eyes grow up.

It's good that you can define that line, but so many lack your good judgment. Were that the case, then we could repeal all the criminal assault laws.

Oh and yes I am going to beat an infant rolls eyes grow up.The law in question applies to children three years of age and younger. There are people who do hit babies, some pretty hard. It's sad that there are people who know enough not to slap their kitten, but don't know enough not to slap their baby.You don't believe me? Go talk to a social worker.As pretty much always, you're driven by your emotions, instincts, and gut feelings. Logic and reason has no place. So be it. Just be sure to tell the adoption agency folks how you feel.You really don't understand the idea of edge conditions. They do show up in real life. When hitting a baby, how hard do you have to hit before you've stepped over the line? And what would you do if you had a neighbor who hit their kids a little too hard (in your opinion)?