HIV Vaccine ready for Clinical Trial

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Originally Posted By: bobaliciousThere is more evidence for Natural Selection than there has ever been for Creationism. I suppose that's the crux of the argument right there. I have yet to see ANY evidence that favors natural selection over intelligent design. That's why the "missing link" is still missing. You'd have to have more faith in natural selection than you would need to have to believe in intelligent design (and, therefor, Creationism). That's what it really boils down to...where you choose to place your faith. But placing one's faith in natural selection means one doesn't have to believe in God, which allows one to continue to do all those things God says one shouldn't...the true motivating factor for where folks these days are deciding to place their faith. Throw in a dash of modern-day Relativism (there is no truth, only opinions), and voila! We have the trend going away from faith in God that we see today.

Are you fucking nuts??? Evidence has been shown to you! Links have been given to you with news articles and scientific papers showing evidence for Natural Selection! You just disregard it without consideration, you seem to have some mental block from accepting that altho no theories have been proven as fact so far that it doesn't mean that your theory is as valid as others. Faith has nothing to do with it, you just look at whats more likely, based on scientific research, and choose the winning team!

Creationism/Natural Selection is based on myths, legends, religious beliefs and a lack of understanding about how the world works. Could it be right? Of course it could, God (or some supreme being) could be up there and he created everything. Has anyone shown any credible evidence for it? Nothing more than a 2000 year old book.

Not just to Bob but to everyone... please stay on topic. This has nothing to do with Creationism or Evolution..... thank you.

Of course not, but it is about the reaction that this HIV Vaccine might get. In America it has been suggested that there may be a divide on how religious extremists and very far Rights may see this vaccine as opposed to the most obvious welcome from the rest of the country. The Creationist/Evolutionist argument is showing how the judgement of said people can be obscured by religious beliefs and teachings. You yourself are a religious guy, you believe in Creationism as far as humans are concerned, even tho more evidence points to evolution of humans. Its your belief and you're welcome to it, but if that belief obstructs the well-being of the public then we have a problem, which may be the case here.

Originally Posted By: unsupervised

yes you did, no you weren't

I'm sorry you see it that way. If you really need to believe that to sleep better at night, I have no problem with that.
Otherwise...no I didn't and yes I was.
I am, after all, me...not you. Assuming you know my motivation is pretty irrational.

Assuming that you know that he isn't you is pretty irrational.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousIts your belief and you're welcome to it, but if that belief obstructs the well-being of the public then we have a problem, which may be the case here. The problem lies in the disagreement as to what constitutes the well-being of the public. Take a close look at what you're fighting for before you cast your lot in with the evolutionists (which would not include Darwin, BTW).I, for one, would love to see a cure for AIDS...just for the record. I don't think there's any sane person that would disagree with a cure for AIDS.

Quote:Take a close look at what you're fighting for before you cast your lot in with the evolutionists (which would not include Darwin, BTW). What exactly does that mean? The way you say that makes me want to believe you think evolutionists have some hidden agenda.

And what part of what I'm debating for is bad? Is it that my theory isn't full of sunshine and puppy dogs and magic?When I was younger I used to think that no sane person believed that black people, asian people, etc... were any less important and any less human than white people. I was proved wrong.And I have no doubt that you would support this vaccine and any possible cure, sorry if through all this I made it seem otherwise. You're not a bad guy in my books, not at all.

Originally Posted By: ClassyBlackWoman  Quote:Take a close look at what you're fighting for before you cast your lot in with the evolutionists (which would not include Darwin, BTW). What exactly does that mean? The way you say that makes me want to believe you think evolutionists have some hidden agenda. They do. Pure science means doing the research and accepting the facts as best we can fit them into what we know (which is not a lot). Evolutionists have taken things beyond that...attempting to prove theories by passing them off as fact (through the education system) and altering the available evidence to support them (lieing about their findings). They claim they have proof, but it never stands up to scrutiny.That they have a hidden agenda (a motive for doing this) is irrefutable. What exactly it is is a matter of conjecture as there are likely several reasons. One of them for certain is an attempt to disprove God's hand in creating the earth...something that Darwin himself would have disapproved of.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousAnd what part of what I'm debating for is bad? Is it that my theory isn't full of sunshine and puppy dogs and magic?When I was younger I used to think that no sane person believed that black people, asian people, etc... were any less important and any less human than white people. I was proved wrong. I have yet to hear YOUR theory...one that involves YOUR thinking as opposed to what it is our education system pushes these days.The bad part, from my point of view, about taking the side of evolutionists is because they seem to feel that the ends justify the means...and I think most of us can agree that that is dangerous thinking. Quote:And I have no doubt that you would support this vaccine and any possible cure, sorry if through all this I made it seem otherwise. You're not a bad guy in my books, not at all. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Quote:They claim they have proof, but it never stands up to scrutiny. Anybody who says that they have proof for any theories on this matter, be they Evolutionists or Creationists, are either mistaken or lying. All anybody has is evidence, if there was proof then we wouldn't be having this debate. Evolution is the accepted theory, the evidence for it outweighs the non-existent evidence for Creationism. If someone can present evidence that shows Creationism is far more likely and plausible than Evolution, then schools will probably change back to teaching what they did before. People will object, of course, but since when has everybody ever been pleased?  Quote: One of them for certain is an attempt to disprove God's hand in creating the earth... Well thats kinda wrong because nobody has of yet shown God's hand, nevermind its possible involvement in creating the Earth. We've already discussed multiple times that its not up to anyone to disprove God's existence, its up to his believers to prove it. Why would God create and put us on a world 6,000 years ago that acts like its coming out of an ice age from 10,000 years ago? Why would God make the Universe so big if the rapture is coming any day now and we'll never get to explore it? Intelligent Creation doesn't seem too intelligent.

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I have yet to hear YOUR theory...one that involves YOUR thinking as opposed to what it is our education system pushes these days.

My theory has nothing to do with your education system, the Irish education system never taught me evolution in anyway. I was taught in religion classes in school when I was very small that God created the world in 6 days, that life began 6,000 years ago and we're all just sitting around doing God's will until he decides to end his little experiment. Everything I believe to be true has absolutely nothing to do with what was pumped into me as a child. I didn't buy the God story then, I definitely don't buy it now.

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The bad part, from my point of view, about taking the side of evolutionists is because they seem to feel that the ends justify the means...and I think most of us can agree that that is dangerous thinking.

Emm, pot, please meet kettle.

As a Christian, I really get annoyed by creationist literature, which gives Christians a bad name. The two major things that stand out in it are:1. Intellectual dishonesty. Not only is evolution misunderstood, it is deliberately misrepresented. And arguments (such as the rate of the earth's cooling) are said to be unanswered, when they were answered and put to bed long ago.It is no doubt driven by a feeling that the ends justify the means, but I think to lie for the Author of Truth is a blasphemy.2. A strange idea of scientific authority. Creationist literature is full of reference to what famous scientists are supposed to have said. If you look in real scientific literature (as opposed to a high-school textbook) you don't find quotes from scientists - you find references to their findings. Science doesn't come from people, but from experiments and observations, and who did them is immaterial.

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousAssuming that you know that he isn't you is pretty irrational. Of course I know he isn't me, you big silly.An evolutionist told me he wasn't.

Well God told me that he was.

Damn!Okay, maybe he is.I apologize.

Or does he apologise? Its hard to tell now...

I think YOU should apologize.You started the whole ball of confusing wax!

I don't apologise for the simple reason that I am never wrong.