I'm back, BUT...
so you won't even consider the remotest possibility that there is a problem.
That's like driving drunk in the sure knowlage that you won't be caught or have an accident.
oh yeah, you don't drive
Quote:
Whoa! Mr.U...Don't say the n word please. I'm half black, so I don't know if you meant it in a bad way.
my statement was satirical in the voice of the ill informed. But I think you understood that.
Would you stop with the straw man arguments? Please.....
What problem do you speak of?
Originally Posted By: A.W.Earth, since the beginning of time, has had climate changes. Both cold and warm phases. All causes by nature, not man. That's why Gore is wrong. yeah but they don't tend to happen within a century though, do they?And man kind has never gobbled up resources at the rate we are now.
there is no problem?shit man, thanks. I will sleep well tonight
likewise
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. What's the point? There have been five arguments in one thread over one 24 hour period...basically.
Cooldawg, seriously, chill. I had your back yesterday, but I think you're going a bit overboard, no? It's like you're doing this popcorn argument thing where, before one discussion can really get underway, you bring up another topic of argument. Can you sum it all up into one nice statement so we can get on with the important things in life?
"Changes in temperature preceded changes in CO2 concentration by between 800 and 2800 years, as scientific papers including the paper on which Gore's film had relied had made clear."
-35 Inconvenient Truths
That's my proof right there.
I tried to keep on the subject, but mr. hydrochloric acid insists on asking 50 questions per post.I already suggested we take this to private messages, because it's too hard to keep up with.
nawyour proof lays in the limmeted number of winters and summers you've personally experienced.but anyway, just keep doing what you're doing. The rest of us will happily leave you behind.
and good luck with your 100 foot sea level rise. because it aint happening. good night.
Originally Posted By: A.W.Earth, since the beginning of time, has had climate changes. Both cold and warm phases. All causes by nature, not man. That's why Gore is wrong.Well, the universe just wasn't created by man or accident. Over the course of time, rivers change course. It's a natural occurrence, and it's been happening for eons. But still, it is possible to dam and redirect rivers.Just because something large and natural has a natural progression does not mean that it cannot also be influenced by man. Do you think that there's no possible way that man could influence the climate? Do you think that if we were able to quadruple the carbon dioxide load in the air, that it would have no effect at all? That the whole idea of greenhouse gasses as observed on other planets is a fraud?You keep going back to Al Gore, Al Gore, Al Gore. He's your whipping boy, which is convenient if you're making a political rather then a scientific argument. Forget about the personalities. Forget about Al Gore. Just stick to the science. Quote:Well, the universe just wasn't created by man or accident.I agree that the universe wasn't created by man. Who implied that it was? Why did you say that? You seem to be saying that you know what created the universe. I suspect you're completely certain of it. Can you prove it?
OK, this is my FINAL post in this discussion. If you have questions or comments MESSAGE ME!
Basically, the reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.
All people have sinned against God. But, God is infinitely holy and righteous. He must punish the sinner, the Law breaker. If He didn't, then His law is not law for there is no law that is a law without a punishment. The punishment for breaking the Law is death, separation from God. Therefore, we sinners need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot keep the Law of God, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God Himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh. He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:5-6) and He fulfilled it perfectly. Therefore, His sacrifice to God the Father on our behalf is of infinite value and is sufficient to cleanse all people from their sins and undo the offense to God.
The following outline is an attempt to break this down, step by step, using scripture and logic. I hope that it helps you understand why God is our savior and not some created thing. Also, I hope that it helps you understand that you must trust in Christ alone for the forgiveness of your sins; that you can do nothing on your own to merit salvation from God.
1. God exists.
A. Gen. 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
2. God is infinite
1. Psalm 90:2, "Before the mountains were born, Or Thou didst give birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God."
2. Psalm 147:5, "Great is our Lord, and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite."
3. Jer. 23:24, "Can a man hide himself in hiding places, So I do not see him?" declares the Lord. "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the Lord."
3. God is holy
1. Isaiah 6:3, "And one called out to another and said, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory."
2. Rev. 4:8 "And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come."
4. God is righteous
1. Neh. 9:32-33, "Now therefore, our God, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who dost keep covenant and lovingkindness, Do not let all the hardship seem insignificant before Thee, Which has come upon us, our kings, our princes, our priests, our prophets, our fathers, and on all Thy people, From the days of the kings of Assyria to this day. 33"However, Thou art just in all that has come upon us."
2. 2 Thess. 1:6, "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you."
5. Therefore, God is infinitely holy and just.
6. Furthermore, God speaks out of the character of what He is.
1. Matt. 12:34, "...For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart."
7. God spoke the Law
1. Exodus 20:1-17, "Then God spoke all these words, saying, 2"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 "You shall have no other gods before Me...."
8. Therefore, the Law is in the heart of God and is a reflection of God's character since it is Holy and good.
1. Rom. 7:12, "So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."
9. Furthermore, to break the Law of God is to offend Him since it is His Law that we break. This sin results in an infinite offense because God is infinite.
10. Furthermore, it is also right that God punish the Law breaker. To not punish the Law breaker (sinner) is to allow an offense against His holiness to be ignored.
1. Amos 2:4, "Thus says the Lord, "For three transgressions of Judah and for four I will not revoke its punishment, because they rejected the law of the Lord And have not kept His statutes."
2. Rom. 4:15, "...for the Law brings about wrath."
11. God says that the person who sins must die (be punished). The wages of sin is death.
1. Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die."
2. Rom. 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
12. The sinner needs to escape the righteous judgment of God or he will face damnation.
1. Rom. 1:18, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness."
2. Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
13. But, no sinner can undo an infinite offense since to please God and make things right, he must obey the Law, which is the standard of God's righteous. character.
1. Gal. 2:16, "...by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
2. Gal. 2:21, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
14. But the sinner cannot fulfill the law because he is sinful (in the flesh).
1. Rom. 8:3, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son..."
15. Since the sinner cannot fulfill the law and satisfy God, it follows that only God can do this.
1. This is simple logic. If we are unable to fulfill the Law, then we will be punished by it. But, since God desires us to be saved, the Law must be satisfied. Since we cannot keep the Law and it must be satisfied, then the only one capable of keeping the Law must keep the Law: God.
16. Jesus is God in flesh.
1. John 1:1,14, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
2. Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
17. Jesus was also a man under the Law.
1. 1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
2. Gal. 4:5-6, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."
18. Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins in His body on the cross, thus fulfilling the Law.
1. 2 Cor. 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
2. 1 Peter 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed."
3. Rom. 8:3-4, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh. 4in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."
19. Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith since it was not by our keeping the Law, but by Jesus, God in flesh, who fulfilled the Law and died in our place.
1. Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast."
2. Gal. 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us---for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree."
3. Eph. 5:2, "and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."
Originally Posted By: cooldawg2
and good luck with your 100 foot sea level rise.
because it aint happening. good night.
Al Gore is a straw man. He's a politician, not a scientist. By assailing him personally you think you're demolishing the two (separate) arguments that the Earth is warming, and that the warming is being accelerated by man's putting greenhouse gasses in the air. I would suggest leaving Al Gore alone and actually reading the science. A lot has been written on the subject, and in total, very little of it by Al Gore.
Is there any way that you'd read what actual scientists think about the subject, is there? Do you consider scientists as some sort of Antichrists?
Originally Posted By: cooldawg2
I tried to keep on the subject, but mr. hydrochloric acid insists on asking 50 questions per post.
I already suggested we take this to private messages, because it's too hard to keep up with.
Of which you chose to answer very few. The principal ones are:
What does it really mean to have free will if God the omniscient already knows how it will all work out? What is the point of playing cards if you know the results before you start? Why does God go through that exercise? When God set the universe in motion, everything was pre-ordained. What free will do we have then? It's an illusion. I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying here.
You claim that Jesus was fully a man when he walked the Earth, yet he still had his magical powers. He could heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, etc. How do you know what He felt? Did Jesus really die? If He did, how does it compare to the experience of a real human dying? I don't think that most biblical scholars would agree with you that Jesus was fully human. If he were, he would not have been very remarkable.
Do you really believe that animals sin? That implies that they have a biblical sense of morality, doesn't it?
If Adam and Eve sinned, why must all of mankind be punished for it? Would it be fair, if your great grandfather murdered someone, that you be put in prison for it? How does that make sense?
God knew what Adam and Eve were going to do before he created them. Do you think God was surprised when they then did what He expected? Either God didn't know and was therefore not omniscient, or he was playing some kind of game with them and with mankind. The same goes for Judas. What Judas, Adam, and Eve did was pre-ordained and had to be done in order to fulfill God's peculiar plan.
When I asked you to explain all the cruelty and suffering in the world God created, you insisted on changing the subject to the afterlife. I won't let you get away with that subject change. Given your logic, then you shouldn't mind being imprisoned and tortured for the rest of your life, since you will get your reward in heaven. Of course your beliefs are correct, and of course if anyone goes to heaven you will, because...well, because that's what you believe. You can't skate over this important question: If God is just and loving, and also omniscient and omnipotent, and we are all His children, then how could He have created a world that would lead to such suffering, and if He made a mistake, how could he let it continue? Would you treat your own children that way?
I don't believe any of those questions are straw man questions, and I don't know why you shifted the topic to ethanol, other than that you are trying to discredit science in general, and that somehow makes your beliefs true. It that is the case, your thinking is not logically sound.
Science and faith have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
If you read that huge post I just gave you'd find answers to all those questions.
God knew exactly how we would sin at the moment of creation, didn't He? So then what is the point of all the drama that followed, about sinning and punishment?You never address that issue. Is it because the Bible doesn't?If one rejects the premise that God exists, which I thought you were going to prove in the other thread, then the rest is moot anyway.In any case, how does Jesus' death absolve us of our sins? You can answer, "because the Bible says so", but it doesn't explain how. God sacrificed his son, which was a charade anyway since He sprung right back to life. Okay. If i stole from my neighbor, how does that make it alright? If I steal again, does it make that alright also?It appears that God made people to do what they did, which is sin, then he puts on a big show starring his only son. It all rally makes very little sense if you think about it.
If you think your bible quotation answers any of those questions then I fear you don't understand the questions.
Can you answer them, in your own words? You don't need to write a lengthy essay.
HCI and Virtual_Star seem to be doing a grand job here with the faith questions, and I'll throw in my 2 cents at some point, but at the moment I'm going to just answer a few of the "Haha, we've got them now" questions. Originally Posted By: A.W.Jesus did die for our sins. And what's so funny is that, why is it everytime when there is a disaster, people always cry out for God by screaming "Oh God"? I can bet that most of them aren't believers. Screaming "Oh God" in a catastrophe is not always a cry out to God for help. Just like when I lose my keys and I mutter "Holy ass-raping Jesus", I'm not asking for any divine anal intervention. Its called the evolution of language. Over time words and phrases are added to a language, their sources being quite varied, and they sometimes adopt an emotional quality with them. When a disaster happens, screaming "Oh God" is the equivalant of screaming "Oh fuck!"
Thank you, but I'm afraid my verbosity leads to skipping over. I am somewhat familiar with the Christian Bible, and the questions I posed are not clearly addressed, if addressed at all in the scriptures. I do hope that cooldawg will take a crack at them. It would be good if A.W. would also, but I won't hold my breath.
Originally Posted By: cooldawg2
Here's the definition I'll use for macroevolution - a change to a new species
Ok, when you cross a horse and a donkey you get a mule (a new species).
The mule cannot reproduce. Therefore we can't get a whole new species from that.
I'm not totally qualified to answer this so I'll have you read this article. Lets end this discussion and bring it to messages instead. It's easier to communicate.
It would be so nice if we could just come up with our own definitions on matters like these but sadly we can't. Macro-evolution, which is actually known as Speciation, is not one species turning into another. It is the emergence of a new species from within another, with both sometimes living on side by side for a long time. This doesn't happen in one generation, it happens over thousands and thousands of generations.
You have actually given a good example of speciation, horses and donkeys. They were once the same species but they have evolved seperately and now they cannot inter-breed succesfully. A mule is (most often) sterile, as is the case with many species of the same family. Lions and tigers have evolved away from each other and although they can have offspring, they cannot go any further because of sterility issues.
If you want to know more about evolution you can message me. If you do want to learn about it, may I suggest that you don't visit creationist websites for information? By their nature alone they are inclined to bend the truth a little, if not just out right lie, to prove their own position right.
You also made a comment earlier about teenage pregnancy and drug use and all that rising the same year that they removed Creationism from schools. Kent Hovind is famous for misrepresenting facts, as well as himself. He claimed to have taught high-school science for 15 years yet there are no records of this, he himself has never been able to prove this and no schools have stepped forward. His statement, which he throws around a lot, is just a lie. The man is a serving a ten year prison sentence for lying. (Falsely declaring bankruptcy, making threats against federal officials, filing false complaints, failing to get necessary building permits, and various tax-related charges.)
There is also the Kent Hovind challenge, which is the biggest piece of bullshit that I've seen in a while. He says that he will give $250,000 to anyone who can prove evolution, but he gives his own incorrect definition of what evolution is. He claims that evolution states the following five things:
1. Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves.
2. Planets and stars formed from space dust.
3. Matter created life by itself.
4. Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves.
5. Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals).
No.1 is not evolution, it is the big bang theory.
No.2 is not evolution, it is cosmology.
No.3 is not evolution, it is Abiogenisis.
No.4 is not evolution, its Abiogenisis again.
No.5, the only one that is actually evolution, has been shown to be true over and over and over and over....
