Gay activists march in Calif. ahead of showdown

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Originally Posted By: thor

Originally Posted By: LuvMyCats

One thing: Judge not lest ye be judged.

Since you seem to think it applies here (otherwise why would you post it), perhaps you'd care to explain the complete meaning of that passage? I'll give you fair warning first that most luke-warm "a la carte" Christians get it wrong.

I think this gives a pretty good breakdown...

Quote:

Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly and honestly, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other unfair means, our judgment will reflect it]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense we think of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother's eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin]." At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.

Originally Posted By: LuvMyCatsNtro: I wish you and yours all the luck in the world. Like it's a big deal, anyway... Thanks It is a pretty big deal on many different aspects, but one important one is insurance. If Adam and I were allowed to get married (Civil Union or whatever) he would be allowed to be on my insurance. Right now Adam has emergency insurance that he pays almost $120 a month for, which only covers incase of an emergency surgery. He has no prescription coverage etc.

Originally Posted By: thorSince you seem to think it applies here (otherwise why would you post it), perhaps you'd care to explain the complete meaning of that passage? I'll give you fair warning first that most luke-warm "a la carte" Christians get it wrong. It's a fortunate thing that there are folks around who can tell us the correct meaning of each bible passage, what would we do without them. It must be great to have a direct line to the mind of god, who can in turn explain all the nuances of a book he didn't even write.Why is it god is so upfront and direct in some places and says exactly what he means, even sets it down in stone, then in others places he so aloof and mysterious. I have no lack of amazement for people who can read something so strictly except for those parts they don't want to read strictly. Then it's fine to infer.

Well...not the text I prefer, but essentially that's a good start. To break it down further, it does NOT say "do not judge"...but rather, to be careful when you judge. Pass judgement on yourself in an area before judging others in that same area. Additionally, the Bible speaks, more than once, of passing righteous judgement. Note that none of this is judging as God would judge...then passing out sentence, as it were. It is, however, intended that we make determinations (judgements) and make a stand for what we believe is right...not roll over and play dead as some would seem to believe. These days, the world is full of Christians who are afraid to take a stand...and fear is not of God.

Quote:

To break it down further, it does NOT say "do not judge"...but rather, to be careful when you judge.

Yes and No.

Yes becareful how you judge because the lord will pass the same judgement on you. (Example: if you judge harshly than the lord will judge you harshly)

No I don't think this gives the right to freely judge anyone you please. I think it's pretty clear, in the passage I quoted, to see that unless a person is free of sin themselves than he/she has no right to pass judgement upon another. I know this is how I was raised to believe in my Church.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyself  Quote: To break it down further, it does NOT say "do not judge"...but rather, to be careful when you judge.Yes and No.Yes becareful how you judge because the lord will pass the same judgement on you. (Example: if you judge harshly than the lord will judge you harshly)No I don't think this gives the right to freely judge anyone you please. I think it's pretty clear, in the passage I quoted, to see that unless a person is free of sin themselves than he/she has no right to pass judgement upon another. I know this is how I was raised to believe in my Church. Not "free from sin"...as nobody is. But rather, "free from the particular sin in question".I think the distinction needs to be made between "passing judgement" and "making a judgement". The first is for God alone...the second for all of us.John.7[24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

How about we all keep our judgements to ourselves and let people live their lives as they see fit and let God be the final Judge? But I suppose that just makes too much sense...(Now I say that about this particular subject. I knew there are cases where "judgement" is needed like Murder, Pedophiles.. etc.)

Thor, would you consider happiness a basic human right? And don't over complicate the question, just yes or no.(Also, in regards to this topic, excluding murderers, etc.)

Originally Posted By: LuvMyCats

Thor, would you consider happiness a basic human right? And don't over complicate the question, just yes or no.

(Also, in regards to this topic, excluding murderers, etc.)

No.

Why?

What a rationalisation! Do you think that when Jesus said "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone", he was only talking of those who were guilty of adultery?In any case, even the assumption that one is free from a particular sin is presumptuous.

I suggest you do a better job of reading your Bible. Anyone well studied knows what I speak of, and the difference between the two. Your only option, in view of your obvious opinion, is to say the Christ contradicted himself. If you believe that, then your opinion on the subject of Christianity and the Bible is worth nothing.And I will add that anyone who thinks to judge another as unable to be free of a particular sin or not is extremely presumptuous. That is God's business mister...not yours, you hypocrit.

Originally Posted By: LuvMyCatsWhy? A better question is "why should it be"? Who has the power and authority to grant such a right? The very idea is rediculous. In this country, which is more free than most, we have the right to persue hapiness. The success of that persuit is up the individual. Niether the government, nor anybody else, has the responsibility for making you happy. Nobody but yourself.

Originally Posted By: thorYour only option, in view of your obvious opinion, is to say the Christ contradicted himself. My word, I think she's got it!

Originally Posted By: thorAnd I will add that anyone who thinks to judge another as unable to be free of a particular sin or not is extremely presumptuous. That is God's business mister...not yours, you hypocrit. All religious books say the same thing.......its not just the bible that states it.Well if you know this then you shouldnt be picking on atheists either. Leave it on whoever you think should judge us and dont preach us into believing things your way.

Originally Posted By: SayaWell if you know this then you shouldnt be picking on atheists either. Leave it on whoever you think should judge us and dont preach us into believing things your way. This is a thread on a Proposition in California concerning marriage. Since I have concern over this issue, and the way it's being handled, I'll voice my concerns as I see fit. I think you're dragging ideas from one thread to the next a bit.

LOL.........nice way to avoid me.......thor. Well what if I changed the "atheists" to "homosexuals" in that sentence.......it would be appropriate for this thread dont you think?

But do you have the right to be happy? Is there anyone that can tell you that you can't? Nice way to dodge the question...again. You grant yourself that right. So, who's to tell you you can't be happy, then, hmm?

I didn't ask who has the responsibility....of making you happy. How'd you get that out of "Do people have the right to be happy/happiness?"

Originally Posted By: thor
And I will add that anyone who thinks to judge another as unable to be free of a particular sin or not is extremely presumptuous. That is God's business mister...not yours, you hypocrit.
What, so you can't tell someone if they've sinned or not? Whoa....then that means that the whole church must be wrong, with confession and all!!
OH NOES!!!!
Originally Posted By: thor
Your only option, in view of your obvious opinion, is to say the Christ contradicted himself. If you believe that, then your opinion on the subject of Christianity and the Bible is worth nothing.
And here we are again, saying that your interpretation is the end all and be all interpretation. Ineligible has a different opinion, than you do, so he must be wrong?
Alright, here, true life example. My brother can reasonably think that they sky is purple (Poseidon's Color blindness, or something like that). I think it's blue. \_Just because we each see it differently, doesn't make either of us wrong, we just see it differently\_.

Thor, A few questions for you before I comment....How old are you, whats your sexual orientation, whats your religion, may I ask? Thanks, Mia